How ambitious are irish bands?

Alwyn Walker

I know the music industry has changed etc.... but bands are still doing deals with record labels and can still make money in the industry.

Where are the unsigned bands who are putting in the effort and striving for getting signed or "making it" on their own?

Know of a good band who work their asses off?
Recommendations anyone?

Al86

www.theprofile.ie

mockingbird

http://www.mediafire.com/?f7prwx427xxc2pu

http://www.youtube.com/user/culturevandal

Enjoy

Fandango

Band promotion forum perhaps? Not hard to find.

Malice

With regard to the first post, three questions are being asked, two of which are just going to produce responses consisting of "Here is my band".

I will leave it for a few days but if this just turns into a list thread I'm going to bin it altogether.

maccored

OP - are you saying only bands looking for record contracts are 'putting in the effort?'

Theres plenty of bands doing their own thing, out playing gigs, selling merch and making money, and avoiding the whole 'get signed be rich' fallacy most bands fall for.

adamokeefe

Bands who work their asses off. Of course, I figure my own thing works pretty hard but really, I'd have to say the Richter Collective people juggling their responsibilities with being in Adebisi Shank.

Other than them, Idle Generator is a guy who's both prolific and ****in unbelievable. Awake Young Soldiers and The Blue Choir also get my vote.

louloumc89

There's loads of bands out there working their asses off! You get to know them from gigging. A bit of digging through boards will get you the bands who are promoting online as much as possible too!

drumdrum

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

I know the music industry has changed etc.... but bands are still doing deals with record labels and can still make money in the industry.

Where are the unsigned bands who are putting in the effort and striving for getting signed or "making it" on their own?

Know of a good band who work their asses off?
Recommendations anyone?

Record label?? Whats that?

Nah seriously, my understanding of "the scene" at the moment is that all of the major labels dont bother with Ireland anymore. We are too small a market especially the more niche genres such as Electronica and Heavy Rock / Metal.
If you are very commercial sounding then they may take notice, but only really such if you go to England or America and try to make it over there. Think I'm wrong?
Look at the radio charts....compare the number of Irish acts on the Top 40 to the amount of international acts. I've known of tons of Irish acts that are very talented, have worked their arses off over the years and have ultimately gone nowhere and aren't nearly as successful as they should be on paper.

"Making it" in the music industry is very much luck and "right place right time" orientated...not to mention "who you know" as well. Especially over here. Irish radio really in the grand scope of things does feck all to support the musicians over here, as much as they would like to suggest they do.


As for bands to look out for, my vote goes to Noise Control.....brilliant band live.

Zombienosh

The idea of "making it" or "Getting signed" seems like a childish concept to me.

MrStuffins

"Making it" today and "Making it" 10 years ago are 2 completely different things.

The music industry has changed and continues to do so!

Also, it depends on how, sorry about the term, but "Dickheadish" you are. Whereas one band might think getting noticed and signed by a label after you stick on 5 leather jackets and write a song about how you can strike a match off your face is it, other bands will think that continuing to grow your fanbase to the point where you can sell tickets with your band's name in lights alone is making it.

Depends what you want out of it to be honest!

Malice

Zombienosh wrote: »

The idea of "making it" or "Getting signed" seems like a childish concept to me.

Why's that?

Alwyn Walker

AH now people.

Didn't i start my post with "I know the music industry has changed etc...."

...and didn't i deliberately use speechmarks around the "making it" term?

It's so obvious and widely recognised that things are different to 5, 10 or 20 years ago that I didn't feel the need to go into that. I'm not an idiot, thanks. (Well OK, maybe I am -for having taken over a large dublin recording studio in the middle of a massive recession but that's another story)

I get the feeling about half of the posters here didn't actually read my original post, so if you want answers to your questions, please just read it.

and thankyou for people who have replied with suggestions. I'm aware of noise control (wow) and have already met with culture vandals.

And for the record, I'm also going to gigs in dublin nearly every night at the moment, sometimes 3 gigs in one night.

Alwyn
Westland Studios

Zombienosh

Malice wrote: »

Why's that?

Well I guess it depends on what making it means to each person, the idea of bands getting signed and making money seems like pipe dreams to me, making it should be just being happy to play music regardless of it bringing money or fame.

MrStuffins

Zombienosh wrote: »

Well I guess it depends on what making it means to each person, the idea of bands getting signed and making money seems like pipe dreams to me, making it should be just being happy to play music regardless of it bringing money or fame.

+1

Alwyn Walker

MrStuffins wrote: »

Agreed in principle ...but it would be nice to be able to do it full time and not have to do a day job. Depends what you're into as a musician.

HeartShake

Ambition is a funny term to me. What defines ambition? Is it wanting to be Kings of Leon big? Having 80,000 people at your gig?

That’s not ambition to me. It’s common sense. Who wouldn’t want to be able to sell out Slane? The validation, adulation and remuneration are all very convincing arguments.

I know some people will say that they probably wouldn’t want that and moreover will say that even 1% of that crowd at a gig would be a dream.

For my band (Last Second Magic-shameless plug), our collective ambition is to be able to make music for a living. If between the four of us- a journalist, a radio station programmer, an apprentice refrigeration engineer and an unemployed sound engineer- we could make the level of money we currently do from music, we’d do it full time in a heart beat.

Some people will do it for less than that and fair play to them.

Personally? I feel a lot of Irish bands aren’t that ambitious. They’re in it to have a laugh, maybe get some free drinks. A number of bands I know think that being paid money to play covers as background noise in a pub is a crowning glory.

To me, that’s the seventh circle of hell, but good luck to people who enjoy it.

A lot of Irish bands still think that the mythical A&R man will be at a ****ty gig somewhere, spot you and whisk you away in a limo, which isn’t going to happen.

I don’t think that it’s all down to ambition, I think the question is; how tuned in are Irish bands?

Most bands I know don’t look at foreign festivals, management and radio.

The scenes here are very hard to break, so bands need to be looking outside.

And that’s not me saying that it’s too cliquey or anything. A lot of the scenes, particularly the “Richter Collective Scene” (that’s maybe an unfair label, but it’s the best way I can describe it) have been built on the backs of hard work, endless promotion and great music, so fair play to them for building a music scene.

Unfortunately, most bands in Ireland don’t want to build that kind of scene, so the ambition they show is usually blinded by a self-interest that is often, I feel, counter-productive.

Ambition isn’t, in my view, being out for you or having to be the best. Not anymore. Ambition can be playing your part in building something that’s bigger than you are, for everyone.

In that regard, Irish bands are, unfortunately, remarkably unambitious.

drumdrum

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

Agreed in principle ...but it would be nice to be able to do it full time and not have to do a day job. Depends what you're into as a musician.

I agree.

In principal its nice to be able to to want to play music and be happy with that. And for most people, if thats the goal they have set for themselves, then they can achieve it a lot easier. Unfortunately, you can't pay your rent with a song, so most of these people will work the 9-5 in an office or wherever and play their music at night.

To me, the term "making it" means making enough money from your music to be able to do the music thing on a full time basis. I'm not saying that you need to be an internationally famous multi millionaire or anything, but enough to get by is a massive achievement in itself.

gamgsam

Hey alwyn, tony here!

Check out shoctopus if you haven't already. They seem to be going hell for leather

ceekay74

Zombienosh wrote: »

Well I guess it depends on what making it means to each person, the idea of bands getting signed and making money seems like pipe dreams to me, making it should be just being happy to play music regardless of it bringing money or fame.

+2

Alwyn Walker

Thanks Gamgsam, I have already met with them.

A lot of Irish bands still think that the mythical A&R man will be at a ****ty gig somewhere, spot you and whisk you away in a limo, which isn’t going to happen.

ha. If some bands choose to not educate themselves about how the industry works (and therefore remain naive) that's up to them. I have found that the opposite attitude is prevolent. (as some of the first replies to my post would suggest). Many bands think the days of A&R and record labels are over, and therefore there's no chance of someone with a bit of clout watching their gig. This is wrong. At HWCH last year I spotted a guy and thought he was a fellow producer (based on his age, keen observation of the bands and the fact that he was at every gig that I was at) I approached him and jokingly said "so who are you then dude?" Turns out it was the main guy from Domino Records, on holidy from the US, visiting family and checking out bands at the same time. Warner may no longer have full time A&R in Ireland but that doesn't mean no-one's watching. I guess it's worth pointing out that labels are looking for bands who are putting in the work themselves too (online, at gigs, looking for sync & pr), and this is just as important (and depending on the label, maybe more important) than a good live show, a certain look or even great songs.

but yes, the days of Limos is long gone, unfortunately!
Not that I'm aware of that specific scenario ever occurring just like that!

Alwyn

mada999

if you look at all the Irish festivals this year, it's the same bands playing them all... maybe they are the only good bands out there or maybe they have good contacts.. doesn't matter, they are getting their foot in the door...

I will tell you one thing, it is pretty hard to get a gig these days (and that is even playing for free)!

Alot of pubs are not taking a chance on original bands and that sucks in case they are a bad band and people do not come back to the pub! A lot of 'pay to play' pubs going around, and I'll tell ya what, I will NEVER pay to play...

Fandango

The simple fact is record companies dont have the cash these days to take the risks they used to be able to afford. If a band arent already working hard by themselves, creating a following, promoting themselves etc they tend not to be interested. A recording contract will only come if a band have either 1. Incredible potential which means alot less risk or 2. Have done alot of the work themselves meaning less cost and work for the record company at the beginning, which can be astronomical.

Also, as for A&R heads going to gigs. Dont forget managers also. Most bands self manage which usually seriously slows their progress. Quite often managers have to be blunt with the band about certain things and that is very hard to do when your a member of the band. There is also a huge amount of work in it which is hard to keep on top of while looking after the music side also. Having said that, my band still havent found a manager and it is tough but they could be at any gig at any time so play every gig like its a big one.

Alwyn, you work at Westland yea? Remember recording there many moons ago with Dave Slevin Lovely Studio.

SpittinStuff

Mr Alwyn Walker! Fancy meeting you here. I hear these lads are alright...

http://www.myspace.com/spittinoutyourbones


We don't usually get paid for gigs. Nor do we expect it. As all of us are now unemployed we just write and rehearse practically all the time. There has been a couple of recent signings within the metal community so its not completely hopeless. You just gotta be prepared to put some serious effort into playing live and properly promoting your band. And having a professionally recorded and mastered EP or album also helps a lot. The internet can be an amazing tool when used correctly...

Waking-Dreams

Zombienosh wrote: »

Well I guess it depends on what making it means to each person, the idea of bands getting signed and making money seems like pipe dreams to me, making it should be just being happy to play music regardless of it bringing money or fame.

“Making it” is too subjective. It used to be that signing a record deal that would flick the switch inside a musician’s head: “Holy ****, we’ve made it!”

But I also think that “making it” can be about setting yourself apart from people who have not “made it”. It’s another form of distinction-seeking, hence why people will consider just about anything they do, being in a band that they enjoy, “making it”, which, if you think about it, is a bit silly. Obviously, if you are in a band you love but not making any money or have no recognition and someone else is in a band they love, that are very popular, on TV, playing shows around the world, one of you has made it and the other doesn’t fit the same definition of “making it”.

There’s a big debate in the photography community about what makes one a professional; is it the quality of the work, or whether you are well-known and do it for a living?

I know it’s subjective, but IMHO, “making it” entails being able to support yourself from your artistic endeavour. You are “making” a living, so to speak.

Of course, some will be able to support themselves on a few hundred bucks a week through music, and others will earn millions playing music too, but both have “made it” in my eyes.

Alwyn Walker

Fandango wrote: »

The simple fact is record companies dont have the cash these days to take the risks they used to be able to afford. If a band arent already working hard by themselves, creating a following, promoting themselves etc they tend not to be interested. A recording contract will only come if a band have either 1. Incredible potential which means alot less risk or 2. Have done alot of the work themselves meaning less cost and work for the record company at the beginning, which can be astronomical.

Also, as for A&R heads going to gigs. Dont forget managers also. Most bands self manage which usually seriously slows their progress. Quite often managers have to be blunt with the band about certain things and that is very hard to do when your a member of the band. There is also a huge amount of work in it which is hard to keep on top of while looking after the music side also. Having said that, my band still havent found a manager and it is tough but they could be at any gig at any time so play every gig like its a big one.

Amen.

Alwyn, you work at Westland yea? Remember recording there many moons ago with Dave Slevin Lovely Studio.

Ha, it seems EVERYONE has recorded here! I don't WORK at Westland, it's now my business (I'm crazy I know). I'm compiling the rather huge Client list for the new website - what band were you in, I'll add it!

Alwyn Walker

SpittinStuff wrote: »

Mr Alwyn Walker! Fancy meeting you here. I hear these lads are alright...

http://www.myspace.com/spittinoutyourbones


We don't usually get paid for gigs. Nor do we expect it. As all of us are now unemployed we just write and rehearse practically all the time. There has been a couple of recent signings within the metal community so its not completely hopeless. You just gotta be prepared to put some serious effort into playing live and properly promoting your band. And having a professionally recorded and mastered EP or album also helps a lot. The internet can be an amazing tool when used correctly...

recent signings in the metal community eh? wouldn't be a band I worked with by any chance? http://www.facebook.com/DeadLabel
Sorry, couldn't help it.

Alwyn Walker

About the whole "pay to play"

I have to say I have no problem with pubs being stricter as to who they let get on the stage. A large proportion of gigging bands just aren't good enough to keep any punters there except their close mates and the other bands playing that night which doesn't generate that much income for the pub, especially if the bands are getting some free beer backstage.

I know may will say "well how are they supposed to learn?".
Well, one, that's not the pubs' problem
and two, I'm not talking about perfecting the live show, I'm talking about having decent gear & perfected their sound, having it in shape, having spare guitars, knowing how to tune (!), knowing to not tune on stage when everyone is expecting the show to have started, being outta time with their backing tracks, knowing the songs well enough, knowing how to soundcheck, at least attempting to converse with the audience, having merch for sale etc...

These are basics which unfortunately are rare in pub gigs.

mada999

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

About the whole "pay to play"

I have to say I have no problem with pubs being stricter as to who they let get on the stage. A large proportion of gigging bands just aren't good enough to keep any punters there except their close mates and the other bands playing that night which doesn't generate that much income for the pub, especially if the bands are getting some free beer backstage.

I know may will say "well how are they supposed to learn?".
Well, one, that's not the pubs' problem
and two, I'm not talking about perfecting the live show, I'm talking about having decent gear & perfected their sound, having it in shape, having spare guitars, knowing how to tune (!), knowing to not tune on stage when everyone is expecting the show to have started, being outta time with their backing tracks, knowing the songs well enough, knowing how to soundcheck, at least attempting to converse with the audience, having merch for sale etc...

These are basics which unfortunately are rare in pub gigs.

I've no probs with pubs wanting quality acts to play in their pubs.... but why should the band have to rent out the venue to play in it.... if the pub did their job properly they would scout out good bands and promote them and ask them to play. If they got a following, the pub would be making dosh...

I've seen pubs around and they do nothing during the week, maybe two or 3 people in on a wednesday night... why not stick on a band night and get a 'scene' going etc...

to be honest I'm sick of hearing about poor publicans cryin' about lack of punters.... the drink is too expensive(some of this is high tax) and there are too many pubs around... something has to give.. a lot of pubs now offering €3-€3.50 a pint at the moment.. which is a good deal for a pint... I don't think some pubs try hard enough (or take a chance on an idea) to get punters in...

SpittinStuff

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

recent signings in the metal community eh? wouldn't be a band I worked with by any chance? http://www.facebook.com/DeadLabel
Sorry, couldn't help it.

Bahahahahahaha... Thats one of them alright. Cheeky sod.

discobeaker

I think there are alot of ambitious bands around county but i think alot of it comes about if a band meets some people who are equally as passionate about the band and do all they can to help out and help push the band alot further.

Like the band i work with,Saccade, from Dublin,in the 3 years or so that i have worked with them they have gotten some great support slots,toured the country afew time,played shows in England,reached the final of the JD Set,Had alot of press and reviews in Hotpress,Irish Times,The Ticket blah blah blah,the band have finished recording their debut album and just got signed up to Reekus Records to distribute the album which will be out in June.

My roll with the band is to help them get gigs and to meet other bands and get these oppertunities and stuff but i do this cos i believe in the band as much as they do and i dont ask for a cent from them.... i have been call the fifth member before haha.

Personally i feel that having someone on the bands side,like they have with me,is great cos it keeps the whole thing moving along for the band and it stops it getting stale and boring/at a standstill for them which is why bands split up and become disinterested.

Thats my 2cents anyway.

www.reverbnation.com/saccade

Bancini

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

About the whole "pay to play"

I have to say I have no problem with pubs being stricter as to who they let get on the stage. A large proportion of gigging bands just aren't good enough to keep any punters there except their close mates and the other bands playing that night which doesn't generate that much income for the pub, especially if the bands are getting some free beer backstage.

I know may will say "well how are they supposed to learn?".
Well, one, that's not the pubs' problem
and two, I'm not talking about perfecting the live show, I'm talking about having decent gear & perfected their sound, having it in shape, having spare guitars, knowing how to tune (!), knowing to not tune on stage when everyone is expecting the show to have started, being outta time with their backing tracks, knowing the songs well enough, knowing how to soundcheck, at least attempting to converse with the audience, having merch for sale etc...

These are basics which unfortunately are rare in pub gigs.

This. Very much this. Great post. I know it might be nerves from playing in front of an audience but the amount of lads you see in pub bands that seem to forget what a drummer is for is very strange.

Denalihighway

ambition, as a few people have mentioned, is very subjective.

for me and the lads, the holy grail would be to make music for a living. i think this is a reasonable ambition. beyond that, its not shameful to want yoru music to be heard by as many people as possible - just my opinion, but i think any self respecting band should strive for that at least, however they achieve it.

the problem i come across most is that bands just don't realise that they need to educate themselves and actually have a plan. it all sounds really boring but if you want to progress you need a plan. "that's not rock'n'roll!!", they say, and yes it takes time and distracts from creativity but thats reality.

the amount of acts i've met who wear the 'underground' badge with pride, and are skeptical of anything that might make them look hungry for exposure it very frustrating. how many bands do you know who think all they need to do is gig their asses off (gigging doesn't hurt obviously) and have a myspace page and then somehow, things will happen?

they don't know about the power of stuff like reverbnation, syncing up and mobilising social networking, mailing lists etc and they don't realise that even with the most basic of IT knowledge...a band can have their own website (a pre-requisite for an self-respecting band) which they can completely manage, host and sell music and merch, for as little as a tenner a month!! (bandzoogle.com is one of them, for anyone wondering)

bands have got to get with the program - especially if they plan on doing things themselves.

bands/musicians - do yourself a great favour. sign up to this blog below and read everything they post. for starters...
http://www.musicthinktank.com/

drumdrum

I also think that a big problem with the Irish "scene" is not so much the attitude of the bands, but of the overall scene itself.

Its just not taken that seriously......and really, its too small a market to really be taken seriously also.

It has the aire to it of the oul phrases like: "ah sure its good for an Irish thing", with the delimiter tacked on to the end to validate the true meaning of the intent.


Irish radio look to international and foreign acts to fill their time slots. The amount of time they dedicate to local Irish acts is laughable (not counting international stars like U2 or The Script here obviously). The last Irish band to really "make it" on an international level are The Script and they focused in the States first.

If any Irish band is REALLY that ambitious...and I mean they REALLY want to give it a go, they gotta get out of Ireland. You gotta go to the market, as the market wont come to you.
Of course if you want to be an "underground superstar" then fine stay here. Every year or two there are a couple of bands that get word of mouth spread about them and are touted as the "next big thing". But a year or two later 99.9999% of the time the bands are still underground with a new band emerging as the next big thing, with the band quickly being forgotten, irregardless of talent.
Case in point: couple of years ago there was a Dublin band called "Funeral Suits" that were talked up by a lot of people. And for good reason they are an excellent band at what they do. Now from what I know of them they did the right thing and have been focusing their efforts stateside and in the UK. They seem to have disappeared from these shores and I say fair play and the best of luck to them! This IMHO is REAL ambition shining through. A band who are willing to sacrifice and leave everything behind for a real shot at making it. Maybe they will, maybe they wont...music is a fickle industry.

The new "word of mouth" band I've seen around are Bipolar Empire who again are great at what they do. It'll be interesting to see what they will do with themselves......

all the stars

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

I know the music industry has changed etc.... but bands are still doing deals with record labels and can still make money in the industry.

Where are the unsigned bands who are putting in the effort and striving for getting signed or "making it" on their own?

Know of a good band who work their asses off?
Recommendations anyone?

\

I know a few folks alright.. and doing quite well wthout major backing for now.

I'm in there myself - not afraid to speak up on my own behalf..
I'm over here:
www.myspace.com/oraclemusicofficial

Working, writing & recording in the Uk, on original r'n'b/soul music. Lovin it!