Cost of a fatal RTA

Alkers

Was talking to a friend about this last night - I remember seeing somewhere (iirc) that a fatal RTA can cost up to €1,000,000. This includes road closures, investigations, postmortems etc. Anyone know if this is true or have any links?
Thanks

Hooch

Simona1986 wrote: »

Was talking to a friend about this last night - I remember seeing somewhere (iirc) that a fatal RTA can cost up to €1,000,000. This includes road closures, investigations, postmortems etc. Anyone know if this is true or have any links?
Thanks

The true "cost" of a fatal collision cannot really be calculated. (RTA is a defunct term, no accidents they are collisions etc)

In monetary terms, a million is the rough cost however this would have to take in the cost to insurance companies for pay outs, loss of income to a family and loos of revenue generated by taxing that person who is now deceased.

MagicSean

Not to mention the cost of the mental trauma to those involved and any treatment this requires.

Hooch

k_mac wrote: »

Not to mention the cost of the mental trauma to those involved and any treatment this requires.

Hense the opening statement, True "cost";)

Smokey Bear

If you read the third paragraph from the bottom Peter Bacon puts the cost @ €3 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0416/1224294785838.html

Muas Tenek

The true cost is a life. Imagine not seeing tomorrow or the next big event in your life - births, weddings, family events etc.
There is no amount of money that will buy another day in anyone's life.

Alkers

Muas Tenek wrote: »

The true cost is a life. Imagine not seeing tomorrow or the next big event in your life - births, weddings, family events etc.
There is no amount of money that will buy another day in anyone's life.

That's understood but that's not what we were talking about.

discus

Muas Tenek wrote: »

There is no amount of money that will buy another day in anyone's life.

I agree. Life is not something that can be quanitified so it can be cheapened by some LEAN/sigma approach. Having said that, that actual cost of an occurance like this has me curious, I'm sure tons are similar.

sdanseo

NGA wrote: »

(RTA is a defunct term, no accidents they are collisions etc)

PC gone a bit mad

As for the cost...well everyone factors in the const of the Emergency crews etc, their pay for the hours they're tied up - i reckon thats wrong as they get paid whether they're in the fire station asleep or chopping someone from a car. It's the same reason I've never understood fire brigade charges being €500+...the cost of the diesel should cover it.

As for loss of earnings, physical damage to property etc, that's a different matter.

maglite

sdonn wrote: »

I've never understood fire brigade charges being €500+...the cost of the diesel should cover it.
.

Its a matter of how you assign costs.

Depending on what you want to achieve you will either look at it was the cost of Fuel and direct consumables.

Or you factor in they still have to be paid for the time they are waiting for a call (full time) wear and tear on the appliances, cost of depreciation, cost of training, healthcare and pension costs,

Effectively if a fireman cost (50kpa (25years) and 15k pension pa) thats €5.75m,
Now training at 5-8k pa (150,000 in a career)

2 calls a day? (250days a year, 25 years) (5.9m /(2*250*25)) = €472 (Thats only a labor cost, not equipment)

So its €472 vs €50 in diesel..

* all made up figures, Then you need to look at if they charge why are they being supported by the local Authority, Cake and Eat??

Zambia

Ok what are the elements involved.

Assuming a Fatal of the following nature. A single driver car loses control on a bend, slides into a pole and folds.The driver is breathing and alive after impact.

The Police are called possibly three units 2 Hours each

The FB are called to extract. 2 hours

An Ambulance is called for the injured party 2 hours

Traffic is held up for 1.30 hours costing various businesses time and money

Everyone held up petrol consumption increases.

A tow truck is called for the car.

The power/phone company are called for the pole. ? Units

The injured person will be worked on in hospital for a few hours prior to death.

The road will probably be inspected afterwards.

The Police/Fire/Ambo's will spend some time on reports.

The body may have to be examined. ? hours by the coroner

The case will go through the coroners court? Associated time costs here.

The deceased will never earn the state anything...

I would imagine some of these are off the mark but if you where to start adding price tags to this you could start to get to a million quick enough.

Paulzx

sdonn wrote: »

PC gone a bit mad

As for the cost...well everyone factors in the const of the Emergency crews etc, their pay for the hours they're tied up - i reckon thats wrong as they get paid whether they're in the fire station asleep or chopping someone from a car. It's the same reason I've never understood fire brigade charges being €500+...the cost of the diesel should cover it.

That only applies to Fulltime crews. Remember, the majority of the country is covered by retained crews who are paid when they turn out to a call and are not paid to be on station 24 hours per day. Thats not to say that i agree with Fire Brigade charges. I don't.

sdanseo

Zambia wrote: »

Ok what are the elements involved.

Assuming a Fatal of the following nature. A single driver car loses control on a bend, slides into a pole and folds.The driver is breathing and alive after impact.

The Police are called possibly three units 2 Hours each

The FB are called to extract. 2 hours

An Ambulance is called for the injured party 2 hours

Traffic is held up for 1.30 hours costing various businesses time and money

Everyone held up petrol consumption increases.

A tow truck is called for the car.

The power/phone company are called for the pole. ? Units

The injured person will be worked on in hospital for a few hours prior to death.

The road will probably be inspected afterwards.

The Police/Fire/Ambo's will spend some time on reports.

The body may have to be examined. ? hours by the coroner

The case will go through the coroners court? Associated time costs here.

The deceased will never earn the state anything...

I would imagine some of these are off the mark but if you where to start adding price tags to this you could start to get to a million quick enough.

Again though, Gardaí/Fire (sometimes, see below)/Ambo/Coroner/Road Crews are all paid for that time REGARDLESS so I don't think it should be factored in.

MagicSean

sdonn wrote: »

Again though, Gardaí/Fire (sometimes, see below)/Ambo/Coroner/Road Crews are all paid for that time REGARDLESS so I don't think it should be factored in.

Fatals often incur a lot of overtime.

Leo Demidov

sdonn wrote: »

Again though, Gardaí/Fire (sometimes, see below)/Ambo/Coroner/Road Crews are all paid for that time REGARDLESS so I don't think it should be factored in.

If there were no fatalities, there would be less of a requirement for some of these services, hence fewer employed, lower cost etc. you dont just pay for the time at scene, but the standby time where the crew is available, their training time and associated costs....

Applying your logic would mean that the loss of revenue to the state from future earnings can be disregarded too as someone else will do their job when they're gone.

pah

NGA wrote: »

(RTA is a defunct term, no accidents they are collisions etc)

sdonn wrote: »

PC gone a bit mad

The word accident implies as much, in truth someone is always at fault.

Alkers

For anyone who was curious the average cost per fatal collision in Ireland is €2,280,000. This is per collision not per fatality. Also interestingly the average cost of any (reported?) collision works out as €62,737.52.
(Source RSA Rd Safety Strategy 2007-2012)

jmadfire

wexfjord wrote: »

If there were no fatalities, there would be less of a requirement for some of these services, hence fewer employed, lower cost etc. you dont just pay for the time at scene, but the standby time where the crew is available, their training time and associated costs....

Applying your logic would mean that the loss of revenue to the state from future earnings can be disregarded too as someone else will do their job when they're gone.

The emergency services are cut to the limit as it is now ye looking to cut them more some thing has to give before it to late ,we should not be cutting the services and hospital s we need most

Leo Demidov

@jmadfire

Regarding your misguided first post, I did not advocate any public sector cuts. I was merely highlighting the fact that ES costs cannot be disregarded from this discussion. Just because they were going to "get paid anyway" does not mean that there is no cost involved. This is merely a discussion of costs rather than a parliamentary budgetary debate.

jmadfire

wexfjord wrote: »

@jmadfire

Regarding your misguided first post, I did not advocate any public sector cuts. I was merely highlighting the fact that ES costs cannot be disregarded from this discussion. Just because they were going to "get paid anyway" does not mean that there is no cost involved. This is merely a discussion of costs rather than a parliamentary budgetary debate.

Fair enough wexjord point taking

coolmoose

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5830-1.pdf

Section C4, Page 41 onwards, gives the details of the figures that are used to come to the "cost" that's being discussed.

BluesAndThrees

A life is priceless. I don't think you could but a number to a life like that.

Raging_Ninja

BluesAndThrees wrote: »

A life is priceless. I don't think you could but a number to a life like that.

Well, in the UK the NHS a have a figure. The cutoff point (info is couple years old) was ~£30000 - they'd spend up to that and not more, since there's only so much money in the pot. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that we have something similar (though different system since we still have private hospitals).

misterdarkness

as a garda that had investigated fatal accident accidents that involved charges of dangerous driving causing death i would say 1 million is a good ball park figure. But does depend. I am looking at it from the point of view of a fatal accident where a driver is in court after.

During my investigations you have to factor the little things and big things in and they all add up. firstly the garda bill and overtime. Well overtime is not a problem anymore lol but a garda is putting many weeks and maybe months into the investigation process so you have to count the gardas wages during that time as a cost of the trial even though its pax payer paying for my services. But garda expence is really the small scale of it in total.

your talking firstly tow men for vehicle 300 for that for each vehicle

the PM on the body thats incurring cost on the state.

The storage of the vehicle for trial can be 30 or 40 euro a day at least which could be for couple of years

the hours a traffic collision analyses garda would have to put in.

The cost of the DPP in reviewing the file

the cost then of the defense. If the person is on legal aid and fights the case your talking barristers and that could be astronomical 10 or 15 grand A DAY.

The high court reviews on the matter before it gets to trial. So you paying a judge and 2 sets of barristers that could argue for days.

Then the court trial which could last a week or two. so the legal teams costs again the judges cost the court staff.

Im sure i am missing alot even but thats off the top of my head from experience also then if you really want to add to it the cost of a civil action after against the persons insurance. few hundred thousand there alone.

so could be 1 million could be 3 million depends on the circumstances but it aint cheap.....