Ernst & Young tyring to halt any investigation regarding Anglo.

andrewdeerpark

/Mod//

Post deleted.
Poss defamatory statement.

berettaman

They have probably probed the byelaws of the ICAI and realised that if there has been no actual "complaint" then CARB shouldn't be looking at them (ludicrous I know). What will actually happen is they will get away with a slap on the wrist from the Institute. Then for the next ten years the slightest infraction by a small firm will be severely punished to make an example ... I would personally love to see the Gov't recoup monies from E & Y but I really do not see it happening in this jurisdiction...I hope I am wrong though.

later12

In fairness this being an investigation by the Institute of Chartered Accountants (upstanding-people-they-are), I'm not sure what sort of credit it would be given by the public if it does go ahead; especially so if Ernst & Young's appeal to access and contest its findings prior to publication is allowed.

Kind of interesting to know that, despite all of the fury, there hasn't been a complaint against E&Y.

andrewdeerpark

Forget the ICAI.

Hire the 10 best law graduates (with no family connections in the legal profession) in a special investigation unit in secret and set upon Ernst & Young. Give them access to all Anglo's files and emails, since we own the bank; if this is now illegal change the law: we are the government capable of setting up the case in out favour.

No use hiring existing talent in the legal sector because one thing is for sure they seem to have no patriotic loyalty to this country only themselves and the highest bidder and Ernst & Young would be the highest!

This is Ireland we are fighting for here time to start taking some of the big corporations down and take money off them...

Afraid this will not happen though as we always feel little against such corporations...

aftermn

Nice thought, but in this jurisdiction we are happier slagging off the public sector. After all the young hospital porter is on 26K per annum, has 23 days holidays and a job for life with a pension. Why would you worry about E & Y when there is such low hanging fruit available for kicking.

You get the politics you deserve. We deserve what we have got because of our own negligence.

beeftotheheels

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Forget the ICAI.

Hire the 10 best law graduates (with no family connections in the legal profession) in a special investigation unit in secret and set upon Ernst & Young. Give them access to all Anglo's files and emails, since we own the bank; if this is now illegal change the law: we are the government capable of setting up the case in out favour.

No use hiring existing talent in the legal sector because one thing is for sure they seem to have no patriotic loyalty to this country only themselves and the highest bidder and Ernst & Young would be the highest!

This is Ireland we are fighting for here time to start taking some of the big corporations down and take money off them...

Afraid this will not happen though as we always feel little against such corporations...

Hate to let little things like facts get in the way of a good debate but Andersen Consulting are now called Accenture, have been since 1 Jan 2001, have their head quarters in Dublin, and had profit before tax of of $2,915 million per their last 10-k http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Nzg1MjJ8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

No evidence that Accenture were involved in any settlement in relation to Enron at all.

Arthur Andersen, the one time owner of the business which is now Accenture, was originally convicted and later acquitted of obstruction of justice in relation to the Enron audit. However, the initial conviction meant that Andersen could no longer audit SEC companies, and forced them to agree to be bought out by their competitors across the globe, different competitors employing the staff and acquiring the assets in different jurisdictions.

Do you want E&Y to make operating profits of €2bn plus next year or what exactly is your point?

Do you want to see them destroyed like Andersen for a crime they didn't commit (thinking about the A-Team as I type this)?

Or do you think that maybe, perhaps, we should just let the wheels of justice grind at their own pace on this and hope that any who have committed a crime are convicted, and any who have not committed a crime are not.

The demise of Andersen, for a crime it turns out they did not commit, cost jobs, many jobs. Not just highly paid partners and consultants, but secretaries and IT support people earning average wages who had nothing to do with the Enron account.

I agree that we need a proper, thorough investigation into the demise of Anglo (amongst other things), both by the Gardaí and the appropriate regulatory bodies. Where punishable wrongs are found to be committed they must be punished. That the Irish people deserve. But if we skip due process, if we preempt the result, if we convict without evidence, then we lessen ourselves and our laws. Any such convictions will be overturned on appeal, and it will make more difficult future actions on white collar crime.

The E&Y action today was about due process not being followed. It has to be followed so that any sanctions, criminal or otherwise, are beyond reproach.

A bit like a tweet I saw regarding Dick Roche's recount in Wicklow, when most tweeters were angry and saw it as a waste of time, one tweeted something along the lines of "Give that man (may have been another less savory term) his recount, let's leave him in no doubt that the people of Wicklow have rejected him and all he stands for".

hinault

E&Y, PWC, Deloittes and PWC are little more than franchises.

andrewdeerpark

beeftotheheels I accept your valid points and I meant to say Arthur Andersen which was one of the worldwide big 5 accountancy firms ruined by the Enron scandal.

However Anderson Consulting and Arthur Anderson only split in 1989:
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Andersen-Company-History.html

And yes my point is revenge in the form of suing for recovery of lost billions from individuals that have it and still accumulate it: Ernst & Young. Plus burning these bondholders etc.

I personally do not care about all the secondary staff, at the end of the day the name Ernst & Young was on the headed paper that audited the accounts and collected the fee, the whole principal of brutal market economics is when you mess up you pay: except in Ireland where the little people pay; minimum wage reduction, universal social charge I can go on……

I would love to see crooked accountancy firms and bankers broke and on the street.

Not happening though

beeftotheheels

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

And yes my point is revenge in the form of suing for recovery of lost billions from individuals that have it and still accumulate it: Ernst & Young. Plus burning these bondholders etc.

I personally do not care about all the secondary staff, at the end of the day the name Ernst & Young was on the headed paper that audited the accounts and collected the fee, the whole principal of brutal market economics is when you mess up you pay: except in Ireland where the little people pay; minimum wage reduction, universal social charge I can go on……

I would love to see crooked accountancy firms and bankers broke and on the street.

Not happening though

I don't disagree with you wanting to see justice, even if I do disagree with your wanting revenge.

I too believe that one of the reason we are in this mess is that we are a bit like Captain Barbossa with his "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules", and we are in need of a Captain Teague character.

But when (and I believe it is when, and not if) we convict those who are guilty, I don't want them to be able to appeal or claim that they have not had due process. We need a clean slate, we need to see the laws being applied, we need to see that no one is above the law.

I would dance on the streets if the DPP managed to convict Bertie of any criminal activity in all this although I think this unlikely. I'd shout for joy if the A-G managed to sue him and get his semi in Drumcondra and his pension pot, even if he still had his freedom which is more feasible.

andrewdeerpark

The investigation regarding Anglo and its auditors rolls on:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ernst-amp-young-must-face-a-disciplinary-panel-over-its-audit-at-anglo-2877258.html

Does not look like Ernst & Young are to worried, with another story saying the Anglo rescue is costing us 25billion euros I still do not see why the Irish Government does not sue Ernst & Young ala Enron and Arthur Anderson, they are even headquarted in London so the same legal system for a case.

At least from the bad exposure they are getting their rep a bit damaged as can be seen from the latest Wikipedia write up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_%26_Young

I see they were up to their neck in Lehman brothers aswell, ironic?

thefishone

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andrewdeerpark

See Anglo finally going to sue Ernst & Young as I suggested years ago. No details of the case as yet just it booked in.

I did notice the indo and rte did not even mention it, the bbc gave it more coverage on their website. Fair play to the Irish times running it as a headline. This is important big news,

I would have taken the case in London against Ernst & Young global sue for billions try and bring the firm down. Anyway better late than never.

Here's some links on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20543125

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1129/breaking1.html

M three

Good stuff, although what's taken 3 years?
And with the 6 year limit for a case all those ernst & young sh*tebags have to do is stall for another 3 years.
In the meantime they should be refused a license to practice here while the case is pending

andrewdeerpark

Removing their license to practice would be a good idea.

M three

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Removing their license to practice would be a good idea.

Yep, on the grounds that they knew the banks accounts were falsified (in which case they were complicit in the corruption) or on the grounds that they missed the falsification (in which case they're too dumb to be auditing)

Either way it doesnt present well for the scumbags

otterj

Apologies for replying to an old thread but what ever happened to this investigation very little about it when i googled it