Political Correctness Gone Mad?

mike65

This is for Spurs fans in particular but applies more widely

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/14/kick-it-out-spurs-y-word

Premier League football clubs have promised to tackle the problem of antisemitism in their grounds "head-on", following the launch of a hard-hitting film that will be shown before matches.

Chelsea are planning to show the film, which features the likes of Frank Lampard and Ledley King, before this month's home match against Tottenham Hotspur, despite fears that it could spark outbreaks of the kind of chanting it seeks to stamp out. But Kick It Out, the organisation that has waged a long and largely successful battle against racism in football and the clubs involved, has resolved to open up the debate around the use of the term "yid".

More controversially, the film's makers have called for a "zero-tolerance approach" to Spurs fans using the term to define themselves. Chelsea, West Ham United and Arsenal fans have been singled out as particularly to blame for antisemitic chanting, while Spurs fans have in recent years responded by chanting "Yid Army" about themselves.

Yid/Yiddish is not a derogatory term in itself of course but clearly can be used in abuse but so can various terms for other religions. So why single out this word?

TangyZizzle

If they don't want to be called Yids, maybe they should have done more to stop their firm from having the word in their name.

Eirebear

TangyZizzle wrote: »

If they don't want to be called Yids, maybe they should have done more to stop their firm from having the word in their name.

It does say that in the last paragraph.

Football is being used as a battleground at the moment for all sorts of semantic arguments.
It's interesting, and i suppose inevitable, given that fans have got away with a lot over the years that it will now come back and bite them.

TangyZizzle

I wonder what the average Chelsea fan would have to say if you pulled them up on it and asked them "Why are you shouting an anti-semetic slogan at those Spurs fans?," I'd wager it'd be something along the lines of "Wha' you fackin' bangin' on abaaaaah?!,"

partyndbs

dont spurs take on the yid name, its not like ajax where they are really r a club which has strong roots with jews. spurs just have a few spurs fans so name kinda stuck

WesternZulu

TangyZizzle wrote: »

f "Wha' you fackin' bangin' on abaaaaah?!,"

Nah, that would be 'Arry!

KeithAFC

I always call them yids or spuds. Don't see the problem.

TangyZizzle

KeithAFC wrote: »

I always call them yids or spuds. Don't see the problem.

You wouldn't. What's the Jewish population in Ireland? Naught point fook all. Chances of you offending someone by saying it loud are slim to none. Not to mention the fact that Ireland's past isn't NEEEARLY as racist and seedy as main land Britain's.

major bill

It's gonna get to a stage where singing will be outlawed all together.....seriously who are these clowns that are getting offended:rolleyes:

TangyZizzle

major bill wrote: »

It's gonna get to a stage where singing will be outlawed all together.....seriously who are these clowns that are getting offended:rolleyes:

Bruce Buck slammed Chelsea fans for singing anti semetic songs back when Avram Grant was managing them. Things aren't always as black and white as they may seem.

Lawrence1895

partyndbs wrote: »

dont spurs take on the yid name, its not like ajax where they are really r a club which has strong roots with jews. spurs just have a few spurs fans so name kinda stuck

As far as I know, at the time, when Ajax were founded, the biggest Jewish community in mainland Europe was in Amsterdam, that's why their supporters have their links to jews.

Don't know anything similar about Spurs though.

KeithAFC

TangyZizzle wrote: »

You wouldn't. What's the Jewish population in Ireland? Naught point fook all. Chances of you offending someone by saying it loud are slim to none. Not to mention the fact that Ireland's past isn't NEEEARLY as racist and seedy as main land Britain's.

I would say if i was in North London too. I don't see the problem. Its hardly wrong.

TangyZizzle

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its hardly wrong.

It is when the EPL is something that is shown all over the world. Think of how many Jewish households the match could be broadcast to.

KeithAFC

TangyZizzle wrote: »

It is when the EPL is something that is shown all over the world. Think of how many Jewish households the match could be broadcast to.

They call themselves yids.

TangyZizzle

KeithAFC wrote: »

They call themselves yids.

Yes, that's been established

What's your point, though?

KeithAFC

That it can't be used as something which is wrong when they call themselves yids and take great pride in it. Its a lot of nonsense really. Another pointless PC campaign.

TangyZizzle

It can be. If you were to bring a black friend to a match and one set of fans began to call the other '****' would you honestly be able to look your black friend in the eye and say "It's grand, they don't mean to be racist - it's just what the other set of fans call themselves,"

It's not Spurs who are trying to put a stop to the use of the term, it's the Kick it out programs initiative which of course the clubs will go along with - lest they be cast in a bad light.

KeithAFC

TangyZizzle wrote: »

It can be. If you were to bring a black friend to a match and one set of fans began to call the other '****' would you honestly be able to look your black friend in the eye and say "It's grand, they don't mean to be racist - it's just what the other set of fans call themselves,"

It's not Spurs who are trying to put a stop to the use of the term, it's the Kick it out programs initiative which of course the clubs will go along with - lest they be cast in a bad light.

I think that is a bit different. A bit more extreme. Also depends what context it is used in (yid that is).

TangyZizzle

One is a term used to put down a race another is one used to put down a religion. Not much of a difference there, is there?

Fuhrer

KeithAFC wrote: »

That it can't be used as something which is wrong when they call themselves yids and take great pride in it. Its a lot of nonsense really. Another pointless PC campaign.

You can hear lots of black people calling each ****** or nigga.


You wouldnt see anything wrong with calling one of them that?

KeithAFC

TangyZizzle wrote: »

One is a term used to put down a race another is one used to put down a religion. Not much of a difference there, is there?

Well everyone is born with a skin colour. No one is born as a religion. But that isn't the point.

You can hear lots of black people calling each ****** or nigga.


You wouldnt see anything wrong with calling one of them that?

I think it is wrong with that word.

OPENROAD

I know Arsenal fans use the term in a couple of songs, I would normally sing the song but refrain from singing the "yid" part.

Maybe I'm going to contradict myself here, but from an Arsenal point of view, I don't think that 99% of the fans who sing this part of the song are in anyway racist or anti-Jewish.

KeithAFC

OPENROAD wrote: »

I know Arsenal fans use the term in a couple of songs, I would normally sing the song but refrain from singing the "yid" part.

Maybe I'm going to contradict myself here, but from an Arsenal point of view, I don't think that 99% of the fans who sing this part of the song are in anyway racist or anti-Jewish.

100% agree.

OPENROAD

TangyZizzle wrote: »

You wouldn't. What's the Jewish population in Ireland? Naught point fook all. Chances of you offending someone by saying it loud are slim to none. Not to mention the fact that Ireland's past isn't NEEEARLY as racist and seedy as main land Britain's.

I have to take slight issue here, England for the amount of immigration it has had over the years is one of the most tolerant countries around imo.

Far right parties have had little or no success in England. Ireland really hasn't had large scale immigration to make a comparison imo.

TangyZizzle

Fair enough.

stovelid

Disgraceful.

I heard Spurs lads chanting Yid Army before and I Torah strip off them.

_blank_

stovelid wrote: »

Disgraceful.

I heard Spurs lads chanting Yid Army before and I Torah strip off them.

that's gas

fkiely

So if they're going to nick West Ham, Chelsea and Arsenal fans for using the term, I presume they'll be making mass arrests when the majority of the home support in WHL use it? Once again, the PC brigade show they don't have a clue what they're on about.

everdead.ie

Arsenal actually don't really do anti-semitism in their songs North London has a diverse population with a lot of Jews the word Yid was taken as a badge of pride that spurs fans have tried to use to diffuse the anti-semitism but it hasn't really worked and maybe it is time to now to stop it's use completely as it normally invites an anti-semetic response from opposing fans.

GavRedKing

fkiely wrote: »

So if they're going to nick West Ham, Chelsea and Arsenal fans for using the term, I presume they'll be making mass arrests when the majority of the home support in WHL use it? Once again, the PC brigade show they don't have a clue what they're on about.

In here is the problem, I dont expect Spurs will get warnings/fines for their behavouir, but if away fans or home fans when Spurs are on away days start chanting the fines will start flying.

I want to be clear, I'm not supporting the chanting at all or any kind of racism, but what is chanted at games doesn't fairly represent the views of the fans chanting them in the majority of cases.

5starpool

everdead.ie wrote: »

Arsenal actually don't really do anti-semitism in their songs North London has a diverse population with a lot of Jews the word Yid was taken as a badge of pride that spurs fans have tried to use to diffuse the anti-semitism but it hasn't really worked and maybe it is time to now to stop it's use completely as it normally invites an anti-semetic response from opposing fans.

It is a strange one when fans make anti semetic remarks to a group of largely non jews. Even that aside though, I don't think any chants that on the face of it are anti semetic, are actually anti semetic as they are just using the word that they use to describe themselves. If a majority of Spurs fans were actually jewish, then there might be religions connotations to it, but if for example, Spurs fans describes themselves as penguins, I can imagine that the World Wildlife Fund would be dismayed at the songs/chants aimed in the Spurs fans direction.

Obviously, irrelevant of intent it isn't good for the game to have any songs with race/religion, etc, as the basis, and I'm not in any way trying to excuse it. I should also say that I know nothing of what is actually contained in these chants/songs, so I am making some assumptions I'm afraid.

everdead.ie

5starpool wrote: »

It is a strange one when fans make anti semetic remarks to a group of largely non jews. Even that aside though, I don't think any chants that on the face of it are anti semetic, are actually anti semetic as they are just using the word that they use to describe themselves. If a majority of Spurs fans were actually jewish, then there might be religions connotations to it, but if for example, Spurs fans describes themselves as penguins, I can imagine that the World Wildlife Fund would be dismayed at the songs/chants aimed in the Spurs fans direction.

Obviously, irrelevant of intent it isn't good for the game to have any songs with race/religion, etc, as the basis, and I'm not in any way trying to excuse it. I should also say that I know nothing of what is actually contained in these chants/songs, so I am making some assumptions I'm afraid.

But if people are aware of that not all spurs fans are Jewish why do they simulate the gas chambers? That would be pointless wouldn't it?

5starpool

everdead.ie wrote: »

But if people are aware of that not all spurs fans are Jewish why do they simulate the gas chambers? That would be pointless wouldn't it?

As said, I'm not aware of exactly what goes on.

Anything like the above is obviously completely indefensible, and is up there with cahnts about Munich/Hillsborough in terms of reprehensibility.

Mr. Presentable

KeithAFC wrote: »

They call themselves yids.

That has bugger all to do with anything. Some people call themselves ni**ers, doesn't give you the right to.

Helix

TangyZizzle wrote: »

It can be. If you were to bring a black friend to a match and one set of fans began to call the other '****' would you honestly be able to look your black friend in the eye and say "It's grand, they don't mean to be racist - it's just what the other set of fans call themselves,"

does this happen when you hear hip hop music in the presence of black friends then?

fkiely

The thing that people should remember is that the vast majority of those using the term would have no anti-semitic leanings whatsoever. The term is used by Spurs fans as a badge of honour and originated as a defence mechanism as far as I’m aware. The chants and use of the word aren’t anti-semetic as such, more so anti-Tottenham. Sadly it’s yet another case of the banter in football being slowly eradicated.

ShooterSF

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

That has bugger all to do with anything. Some people call themselves ni**ers, doesn't give you the right to.

Exactly. I'm white but call myself ni**er but you better not call me it. Whitey trying to put me down. While we're at it some people call themselves ginger but that doesn't mean you can (Unless you're afflicted too, I think. I'm not fully aware of the rules )!

---

Truthfully, it's all a load of crap. You (and I) have NO right NOT to be offended. You (and I) have every right to develop an (low) opinion of those that do offend you (or me).

Free speech for all. It's the only way to find out who the biggoted a*sholes are amongst us!

parker kent

It's easy to say political correctness has gone mad when you are removed from the situation. Just because we as Irish, white males don't see the harm in it, doesn't mean that they should not try and remove it from the game. Ignorance is not a particularly strong defence for us or English football fans.

TangyZizzle

Helix wrote: »

does this happen when you hear hip hop music in the presence of black friends then?

Are you serious? You see a black person referring to another as a ****** to be on par with someone of another race calling a black person a ******?