Injuries board & handling multiple injuries

kennM

Hi all,

Does anyone know how the injuries board handles claims where multiple injuries are involved. Gone through their website and it seems a little vague regarding compensation for multiple injuries. Doubt its as simple as assessing each individual injury in the book of quantum and adding them up.... would like to work out what a fair settlement is. Insurance company has indicated they are prepared to negotiate but would like to do my homework first.

Thanks!

dazza21ie

The Injuries Board are sometimes reluctant to assess where the injuries are quite complex. It is not as simple as adding up under each heading in the book of quantum.

Remember it is in insurance companies interest to settle for as little as possible. You should consider taking professional advice.

kennM

dazza21ie wrote: »

The Injuries Board are sometimes reluctant to assess where the injuries are quite complex. It is not as simple as adding up under each heading in the book of quantum.

Remember it is in insurance companies interest to settle for as little as possible. You should consider taking professional advice.

Thanks for the reply... have a solicitor on board but wanted to do my homework too. He hasn't indicated expected settlement range yet and just wanted to have an idea. Naturally there is absolutely no point in me negotiating a settlement if I don't know whats fair and not in my case. You know where I'm coming from?

drkpower

kennM wrote: »

Hi all,

Does anyone know how the injuries board handles claims where multiple injuries are involved. Gone through their website and it seems a little vague regarding compensation for multiple injuries. Doubt its as simple as assessing each individual injury in the book of quantum and adding them up.... would like to work out what a fair settlement is. Insurance company has indicated they are prepared to negotiate but would like to do my homework first.

Thanks!

I think the first few pages of the Book of Quantum talks about this.

You take the most significant injury and figure out what category it is in (ie. lower limb soft tissue injury, significant ongoing). There will be a range of, lets say, €15-35000. The less significant of the multiple injuries willl be relevent to determining where in he range the award lies, between 15K and 35K.

That is the theory; im sure the practice ends up being a little more fluid.

kennM

drkpower wrote: »

I think the first few pages of the Book of Quantum talks about this.

You take the most significant injury and figure out what category it is in (ie. lower limb soft tissue injury, significant ongoing). There will be a range of, lets say, €15-35000. The less significant of the multiple injuries willl be relevent to determining where in he range the award lies, between 15K and 35K.

That is the theory; im sure the practice ends up being a little more fluid.

Thanks for the response... my primary injury isn't listed... ah well. I'll just let it go through injuries board and see what they come back with. Had multiple fractures along with soft tissue injuries and damage to lungs too.

kennM

Hi all,

Is there any mechanism or way of getting indicative fair settlements? Solicitor is floating the idea of negotiated settlement but he hasn't given an indication of what a fair settlement is at this point. Personally I'd prefer a few opinions...

Was chatting to injuries board and they just said talk to your solicitor.... all thoughts and recommendations welcomed.

blueythebear

kennM wrote: »

Hi all,

Is there any mechanism or way of getting indicative fair settlements? Solicitor is floating the idea of negotiated settlement but he hasn't given an indication of what a fair settlement is at this point. Personally I'd prefer a few opinions...

Was chatting to injuries board and they just said talk to your solicitor.... all thoughts and recommendations welcomed.

You should listen to your solicitor but bear in mind that he has to take instructions from you. If you are not happy with the settlement that is negotiated, then you can instruct him to refuse it no matter what he says.

That said, if he is telling you to accept settlement, there is a good reason. It is in his interest for a PI case to go to court as he will get legal costs if he wins. It is always in his interest to get the maximum amount for you from the point of view of him recooping costs so just remember that when considering any offers and advice.

Milk & Honey

To value a claim, if all medical reports are complete, the best thing to do is get an opinion from a Senior Counsel who specialises in personal injury cases. I know of on such Counsel who charges about €400-€450 for an opinion. This is the best way to ensure that any PIAB award is in an acceptable range. It is also laughable that the injuries board is telling you to talk to your solicitor. When it was set up it purported to be a lawyer free zone.

kennM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

To value a claim, if all medical reports are complete, the best thing to do is get an opinion from a Senior Counsel who specialises in personal injury cases. I know of on such Counsel who charges about €400-€450 for an opinion. This is the best way to ensure that any PIAB award is in an acceptable range. It is also laughable that the injuries board is telling you to talk to your solicitor. When it was set up it purported to be a lawyer free zone.

Thanks guys... when I was speaking to the injuries board I made it evident that I had engaged a solicitor. The tricky thing I find is that when it comes to multiple injuries & the book of quantum its hard to determine what a "fair" settlement is. In a negotiated settlement you're basically being asked to sell something.... i.e. an agreed figure for damages. But the thing is, in my case, I don't know a fair price. Hence the call to see if anyone knows any mechanism to get more than one opinion on same.

If I knew what a fair figure was (indicative of where PIAB would rule) and could negotiate a settlement in that range then great.... saves time and headaches.

McCrack

Milk & Honey wrote: »

To value a claim, if all medical reports are complete, the best thing to do is get an opinion from a Senior Counsel who specialises in personal injury cases. I know of on such Counsel who charges about €400-€450 for an opinion. This is the best way to ensure that any PIAB award is in an acceptable range. It is also laughable that the injuries board is telling you to talk to your solicitor. When it was set up it purported to be a lawyer free zone.

It's not laughable, they are quite correct to refer claimant to the instructed solr on record and also PIAB don't give legal advice in any event.

PIAB awards are generally never the full value and since the Civil Liability Act 04, and PIAB Acts the system is weighted unfairly against the injured party.

PIAB does not have claimants interests at heart, they have insurance companies interests.

McCrack

kennM wrote: »

Thanks guys... when I was speaking to the injuries board I made it evident that I had engaged a solicitor. The tricky thing I find is that when it comes to multiple injuries & the book of quantum its hard to determine what a "fair" settlement is. In a negotiated settlement you're basically being asked to sell something.... i.e. an agreed figure for damages. But the thing is, in my case, I don't know a fair price. Hence the call to see if anyone knows any mechanism to get more than one opinion on same.

If I knew what a fair figure was (indicative of where PIAB would rule) and could negotiate a settlement in that range then great.... saves time and headaches.

The book of quantum is 7 years out of date.

Your lawyers (solicitor and counsel) will know the value of your injuries. Never rush a claim, yours is recent I would suspect as its in the Injuries Board.
Injuries take time to settle and long term prognosis is usually difficult to quantify in the first year anyway so take your time with this. Listen to your solicitor. Don't sell yourself short accepting an Injuries Board assessment if they assess, 9/10 they don't reflect the full value.

BengaLover

Step 1) Fill in online form, submit with fee of 45 euro
Step 2) Print out the medical claim form, and get your doc to fill in (300 euro fee but not payable until claim is resolved)
Step 3) Once ALL forms are submitted and checked by PIAB their own assessor will contact the respondant with a figure based on the medical report.
Step 3) The respondant along with their insurance company has 90 days to agree or disagree to claim..
If they agree, all being well you get paid, if not its court.

Just doing the same myself and are at start of step 3..so far so good.
Already had 2 paltry offers from other parties insurance company and said no.
Expect to get another once they see the PIAB claim in place.

kennM

Thanks Mccrack & BengaLover....

In my case we haven't started down the root of PIAB. Had the accident almost a year ago now and we've settled on material damage, the insurance company are interested in negotiating a personal injuries settlement and were in such a positions several months ago.

I've delayed it intentionally to see how injuries bed down. Still having some difficulties with a couple of them. Need to get a revised medical report also, original one a couple of months back missed out on some of my injuries :rolleyes: . I'm the type of person who likes to get his homework done & want to ensure that if my solicitor says X then I know X is a fair figure. Its tricky because a couple of my injuries are actually quite rare.

At this point I don't have enough confidence to go down the negotiated settlement root as I feel its going to be in the insurance companies best interest to get out as cheaply as possible...... at the end of the day its me who has to live with long term repercussions of this for the rest of my life & want to ensure I'm adequately compensated for any complications I can expect down the line.

a lawyer

kennM wrote: »

Thanks Mccrack & BengaLover....

In my case we haven't started down the root of PIAB. Had the accident almost a year ago now and we've settled on material damage, the insurance company are interested in negotiating a personal injuries settlement and were in such a positions several months ago.

I've delayed it intentionally to see how injuries bed down. Still having some difficulties with a couple of them. Need to get a revised medical report also, original one a couple of months back missed out on some of my injuries :rolleyes: . I'm the type of person who likes to get his homework done & want to ensure that if my solicitor says X then I know X is a fair figure. Its tricky because a couple of my injuries are actually quite rare.

At this point I don't have enough confidence to go down the negotiated settlement root as I feel its going to be in the insurance companies best interest to get out as cheaply as possible...... at the end of the day its me who has to live with long term repercussions of this for the rest of my life & want to ensure I'm adequately compensated for any complications I can expect down the line.

I'd say your gut is right - if things are too uncertain then it you taknig the risk if the cases settles (i.e. that it settles for too little).

your solicitor's vagueness on the value of the case may be because the prognosis is a bit vague.

I'd imagine your solicitor with get the thing into PIAB to move things along soon.

If you are not in a position to know when your injuries are going to clear up then the best solicitor in the world won't be able to tell you that X or Y is fair (not without their being clairvoyant - spelling?). Any advice re. the value of a claim can only be based on the evidence (in this case on medical reports to hand)

I wouldn't stress about the case. you have an insurer who clearly knows it has to pay up. the question is how much.

in some cases you could accept the risk that attaches to an early settlement. in some cases a PIAB assessment is enough (even with you paying costs). in some cases the PIAB assessment is though too much by the insurer (though not often). If it takes getting to the stage of court proceedings for clarity to emerge as to when you might be better then so be it.

kennM

a lawyer wrote: »

I'd say your gut is right - if things are too uncertain then it you taknig the risk if the cases settles (i.e. that it settles for too little).

your solicitor's vagueness on the value of the case may be because the prognosis is a bit vague.

I'd imagine your solicitor with get the thing into PIAB to move things along soon.

If you are not in a position to know when your injuries are going to clear up then the best solicitor in the world won't be able to tell you that X or Y is fair (not without their being clairvoyant - spelling?). Any advice re. the value of a claim can only be based on the evidence (in this case on medical reports to hand)

I wouldn't stress about the case. you have an insurer who clearly knows it has to pay up. the question is how much.

in some cases you could accept the risk that attaches to an early settlement. in some cases a PIAB assessment is enough (even with you paying costs). in some cases the PIAB assessment is though too much by the insurer (though not often). If it takes getting to the stage of court proceedings for clarity to emerge as to when you might be better then so be it.

Thanks... my gut feeling is saying go through PIAB... it also gives more time for injuries to settle. Regarding prognosis being vague, you are indeed right. One of the injuries I have sustained which is still ongoing almost a year later... when I mention the name of it.... 9 out of 10 doctors ask "Whats that?" which naturally doesn't help on the prognosis front because the few doctors I've seen that do know what it is have differing views on prognosis. Ranging from it'll be fine to could be permanent (naturally I've put my own wording on that to de-jargon it).

injuriesboard

BengaLover wrote: »

Step 1) Fill in online form, submit with fee of 45 euro
Step 2) Print out the medical claim form, and get your doc to fill in (300 euro fee but not payable until claim is resolved)
Step 3) Once ALL forms are submitted and checked by PIAB their own assessor will contact the respondant with a figure based on the medical report.
Step 3) The respondant along with their insurance company has 90 days to agree or disagree to claim..
If they agree, all being well you get paid, if not its court.

Just doing the same myself and are at start of step 3..so far so good.
Already had 2 paltry offers from other parties insurance company and said no.
Expect to get another once they see the PIAB claim in place.

Hi,

I just wanted to take a moment to clarify some of the timelines for you BengaLover.

Once all the documentation has been received by InjuriesBoard.ie (application, medical from treating doctor and €45 fee) the Board contacts the person the claimant is holding responsible. In motor liability cases this is normally an insurance company (the Respondant).
The Respondant has 90 days to decide if they are happy for InjuriesBoard.ie to make an assessment.
If the Respondant consents to the assessment the Board makes its assessment within 9 months of receiving the consent.
InjuriesBoard.ie then issuess a Letter of Assessment to the parties. This gives the details of the Award.
The Claimant has 28 days to decide if they want to accept and the Respondent has 21 days to decide if they want to accept.

You might find it useful to have a look at our FAQ section and our How to Make a claim section here and our Claimant Information Video here.

Our Service Center is available 8am - 8pm Monday to Friday to assist with any questions you might have LoCall 1890 829 121.

I hope you find this information useful.

All the best, InjuriesBoard.ie

injuriesboard

Hi KennyM,

You'll see my brief post above that details how the InjuriesBoard.ie process works but I wanted to provide some information on how we make Assessments.

The Injuries Board makes its Assessments based on the documents submitted by the Claimant - the Application, the treating doctor report and and any loss of earnings/out of pocket expenses submitted. We also, in many cases, request that the Claimant (injured person) attends a medical with one of our Panel Doctors. The specilisation of that doctor will depend on the nature of your own injury e.g. orthapedic, emergency medicine, neurologist etc.
This means that we have the capacity to assess the damages for the majority of injuries.

If there is no prognosis available we may decide to release the claim to enable the claimant to proceed to the Court system.

When our assessors are making an Assessment, they review the medical evidence and have regard to the Book of Quantum (which, by law, must also be used by the Courts).

They also have access to Court Settlement Data, Insurance Settlement Data and State Claims Agency Settlement Data.

Each claim is reviewed on an individual basis.

I hope this is of help to you.

All the best, InjuriesBoard.ie

a lawyer

injuriesboard wrote: »

Hi KennyM,

You'll see my brief post above that details how the InjuriesBoard.ie process works but I wanted to provide some information on how we make Assessments.

The Injuries Board makes its Assessments based on the documents submitted by the Claimant - the Application, the treating doctor report and and any loss of earnings/out of pocket expenses submitted. We also, in many cases, request that the Claimant (injured person) attends a medical with one of our Panel Doctors. The specilisation of that doctor will depend on the nature of your own injury e.g. orthapedic, emergency medicine, neurologist etc.
This means that we have the capacity to assess the damages for the majority of injuries.

If there is no prognosis available we may decide to release the claim to enable the claimant to proceed to the Court system.

When our assessors are making an Assessment, they review the medical evidence and have regard to the Book of Quantum (which, by law, must also be used by the Courts).

They also have access to Court Settlement Data, Insurance Settlement Data and State Claims Agency Settlement Data.

Each claim is reviewed on an individual basis.

I hope this is of help to you.

All the best, InjuriesBoard.ie

listen, if you are going to represent yourselves as an authority on what happens in court you might as well be accurate. the courts have to "have regard" to the Book of Quantum - they are not stuck to it. the way you have presented it makes it look like PIAB is the only party that only has to "have regard" to the Book of Quantum, among other information, but that the courts must use the Book of Quantum.

the court has full authority to "have regard" to the book of quantum, and then use other criteria to assess quantum (as do PIAB).

drkpower

a lawyer wrote: »

the court has full authority to "have regard" to the book of quantum, and then use other criteria to assess quantum (as do PIAB).

No need to jump down their throat.... :eek:That seemed to be precisely what InjuriesBoard said.

When s/he said the courts must 'use' it, it seems clear s/he meant must 'have regard to it' in the same way as PIAB do.

McCrack

injuriesboard wrote: »

Hi,

I just wanted to take a moment to clarify some of the timelines for you BengaLover.

Once all the documentation has been received by InjuriesBoard.ie (application, medical from treating doctor and €45 fee) the Board contacts the person the claimant is holding responsible. In motor liability cases this is normally an insurance company (the Respondant).
The Respondant has 90 days to decide if they are happy for InjuriesBoard.ie to make an assessment.
If the Respondant consents to the assessment the Board makes its assessment within 9 months of receiving the consent.
InjuriesBoard.ie then issuess a Letter of Assessment to the parties. This gives the details of the Award.
The Claimant has 28 days to decide if they want to accept and the Respondent has 21 days to decide if they want to accept.

You might find it useful to have a look at our FAQ section and our How to Make a claim section here and our Claimant Information Video here.

Our Service Center is available 8am - 8pm Monday to Friday to assist with any questions you might have LoCall 1890 829 121.

I hope you find this information useful.

All the best, InjuriesBoard.ie

It is worth pointing out that if the Respondent does not confirm it agrees to the Injuries Board assessing the Injuries Board will assess by default and then 9 months later the Respondent rejects the Assessment and the injured party is back to square one and has effectively delayed his/her claim being concluded by at least 12 months which prejudices the interests of the plaintiff.

Also the Respondent may agree to the Injuries Board assessing and many do simply as a delaying tactic and have no intention of honouring any assessment by the Board.

The system is grossly unfair to Plaintiffs and is used time and time again as a pawn by insurance companies to the detriment of the injured party.

Since 2007 by enacting legislation the solicitor/client fee for the Injuries Board fee is not recoverable so Plaintiffs have to pay it out of their award/settlement/damages.

over30

hi kennym

i feel i am in the same position as you. i have no idea what a fair settlement is either and cant figure out what to expect, the book of quantum is very vague. i spoke to someone at the injuries board yesterday they said that before making an award they get their own medical specialists to assess how long the injuries will take to come right. they also say there really is no need for me to have a solicitor as the process is user friendly. i don't know who to listen to. the award is paid direct to your solicitor who deduct their fees and then issue you with a cheque. i dont really like it being done that way, most solicitors are ok but you never know how long it will take to get your cheque from them.
did you look at www.claims.ie they think that the awards are generally good as they want them to be accepted by the claimant and thus avoid court cases. i dont know anyone who has been through this process. the insurance company made a very reasonable offer to me but i am inclined to think the injuries board would offer more as the insurance want to get it settled at the lowest possible amount. my concern like you is the length of time it will take for all my injuries to improve but i have to decide soon as the respondants i believe have 3 months to accept or reject the injuries board involment so you have to make sure that you your claim is within the 2 year limit. if the injuries board deem your injuries to be complex they will tell you to go to court without delay.
good luck with all

a lawyer

over30 wrote: »

hi kennym

i feel i am in the same position as you. i have no idea what a fair settlement is either and cant figure out what to expect, the book of quantum is very vague. i spoke to someone at the injuries board yesterday they said that before making an award they get their own medical specialists to assess how long the injuries will take to come right. they also say there really is no need for me to have a solicitor as the process is user friendly. i don't know who to listen to. the award is paid direct to your solicitor who deduct their fees and then issue you with a cheque. i dont really like it being done that way, most solicitors are ok but you never know how long it will take to get your cheque from them.
did you look at www.claims.ie they think that the awards are generally good as they want them to be accepted by the claimant and thus avoid court cases. i dont know anyone who has been through this process. the insurance company made a very reasonable offer to me but i am inclined to think the injuries board would offer more as the insurance want to get it settled at the lowest possible amount. my concern like you is the length of time it will take for all my injuries to improve but i have to decide soon as the respondants i believe have 3 months to accept or reject the injuries board involment so you have to make sure that you your claim is within the 2 year limit. if the injuries board deem your injuries to be complex they will tell you to go to court without delay.
good luck with all

let's see if the injuriesboard person on this forum denies that they told this person that they don't really need a solicitor. surely they will as PIAB would never advise someone that they shouldn't use a solicitor.