E90 520i 2.2 petrol running costs 8k/yr

bgraham1

*Sorry E60 *
Hi
Im looking at an 05 520i M sport, getting it at a good price so I'm thinking it may be worth the extra cost of going petrol.
I do around 8000 miles a year. commute is only 7miles each way on motorway. I go to the west down the M4 once a month. Given I wont be doing a lot of extra urban driving might not be to bad on petrol?
Im coming from a 1.9tdi that got 45mpg. how much of a shock will it be?
Is the 520i under powered? its an Auto ..

any info appreciated

unkel

Took you a while to post on boards.ie but anyway, welcome

With a low mileage like that and a short daily commute, you are wise to go for petrol. A similar diesel model would cost you a lot more and you'll never earn it back in fuel savings. And there is a lot of expensive stuff that can go wrong with modern diesels. Also the 520i petrol has a smooth 6 cylinder engine, the 520d diesel has a 4 cylinder engine, a good one, but still a diesel, so less refinement. The 520i has 170BHP afaik. With the autobox (highly recommended) it's no sportscar but performance is more than adequate (and way better than what you have now)

Let us know how you're getting on!

Leonard Hofstadter

The E90 is a 3 series OP:)!

It will be heavy on juice compared to what you have (and it will feel a lot slower as natuallly aspirated petrols need to be revved a lot even though it's actually quite a bit faster than a 1.9 TDI A4) but then again a diesel Audi (or any diesel with a manual gearbox) could need a new dual mass flywheel at any time and the savings in fuel by having a diesel will be more than outweighed by the cost of replacing one of those.

166man

Petrol is expensive these days and I certainly wouldn't want that engine under my bonnet! In general for every day driving the equivalent diesel is faster and that auto will be terrible for fuel consumption and speed... It takes nearly 10 seconds to hit sixty! Its not that fast and hefty tax too. I wouldn't go for it even at a reasonable price

Remember that petrol is still around 1.50 a litre. 8k a year will be almost 500euro extra...

bgraham1

-UNKEL -long time reader..

Thanks for the reply, good to hear someone else thinking the same. Maybe there is method to my madness ?
Very nervous going away from diesel, I have had a 150bhp + diesel cars the last 6 years.

Leonard Hofstadter

166man wrote: »

Petrol is expensive these days and I certainly wouldn't want that engine under my bonnet! In general for every day driving the equivalent diesel is faster and that auto will be terrible for fuel consumption and speed... It takes nearly 10 seconds to hit sixty! Its not that fast and hefty tax too. I wouldn't go for it even at a reasonable price

Remember that petrol is still around 1.50 a litre. 8k a year will be almost 500euro extra...

That is a fair enough point, OP could get a 525i, which has a useful bit of extra power, will be just as economical and is only €100 more to tax - 05 onwards 525i's have 218 bhp to the 520i's 170 bhp as well.

That said, a 520i is a relatively cheap way of getting into six cylinder motoring - and I don't care how "fast" a diesel may feel compared to a petrol, it is still diesel and it could need a new DMF (€2000 if repaired by a BMW main dealer I believe) so already the OP would need four years of fuel savings to wipe out the extra cost of something going wrong in the diesel.

They like their old drop of oil and the MAF may go in them, but those engines are otherwise very reliable.

BMW diesels are a long way from the most reliable too - turbos, swirl flaps (which write off the engine), positive crankcase breathers, EGR valves, MAFs and injectors are all things that can give trouble in them, especially the turbos and the swirl flaps.

BMW straight six petrols sound so sweet when revved too:D!

bazz26

166man wrote: »

Petrol is expensive these days and I certainly wouldn't want that engine under my bonnet! In general for every day driving the equivalent diesel is faster and that auto will be terrible for fuel consumption and speed... It takes nearly 10 seconds to hit sixty! Its not that fast and hefty tax too. I wouldn't go for it even at a reasonable price

Remember that petrol is still around 1.50 a litre. 8k a year will be almost 500euro extra...

The OP is doing tiny mileage so fuel costs are not a huge factor. These petrol cars are alot cheaper to buy here over the diesel equivilant because all the sheep have diesel in the brain instead of doing the maths first. That savings alone will buy alot of petrol for the car.

jayok

TBH If you have serious concerns about running costs then a six year old 2.2 litre I6 petrol auto from BMW is not really an option. These are built for smoothness and comfort not economy or speed.

Beyond the petrol you will also have associated service maintanence costs with this grade of car and they can add up. Brakes, suspension, Inspections 1 & 2 - they do cost.

It's a little unfair to compare the 1.9 diesel Audi here as this is built for economy and is more frugal on the fuel but less refined too (as a engine). Not sure on running costs, but I'd imagine turbos, DMFs, etc might be in the mix.

If you are REALLY worried about overall running costs, get yourself a 1.4 litre Honda Civic or something.

bgraham1

bazz26 wrote: »

The OP is doing tiny mileage so fuel costs are not a huge factor. These petrol cars are alot cheaper to buy here over the diesel equivilant because all the sheep have diesel in the brain instead of doing the maths first. That savings alone will buy alot of petrol for the car.

BAAA !

Im trying to get the diesel out of my brain. .

I used to do more milage 15k a yr but should be down round 8-10k now.
On this particular car i would save anything up to €6k on the price of a 520i over the 520D
I will have to get used to the lack of low down torque though..

jayok

bgraham1 wrote: »

I will have to get used to the lack of low down torque though..

Torque - pfff - Hit 6,000 RPM and let the gearbox sort that one out

166man

I'm not trying to say go for the diesel because they can be troublesome but if you want Petrol go for a 525i. I believe it is one of the sweetest petrol engines ever made. Its well worth the 100 odd extra for tax and fuel economy is almost identical. I would recommend a E39 5 series though as there will be more car for your money with one of those and they look much better!

bgraham1

166man wrote: »

I'm not trying to say go for the diesel because they can be troublesome but if you want Petrol go for a 525i. I believe it is one of the sweetest petrol engines ever made. Its well worth the 100 odd extra for tax and fuel economy is almost identical. I would recommend a E39 5 series though as there will be more car for your money with one of those and they look much better!

I agree the 525i would be the better option, but I have a good price on this particular 520i.

166man

Have you a link to that BMW? Just to see it or more info?

How about a 2003 525i auto? This is a really nice example

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/525-M-SP/201112201746333/advert?channel=CARS

unkel

bgraham1 wrote: »

On this particular car i would save anything up to €6k on the price of a 520i over the 520D

That's many years worth of difference of the saving you'd make in fuel by going diesel. Paid up front into your hand

bgraham1 wrote: »

I will have to get used to the lack of low down torque though..

That's a complete non-issue. As jayok said, the autobox will sort that for you. It will be a lot quicker to accelerate from the traffic lights than the manual diesel. It will be a lot quicker to overtake on a national road in the 520iA than in the manual diesel...

bgraham1

166man wrote: »

Have you a link to that BMW? Just to see it or more info?

How about a 2003 525i auto? This is a really nice example

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/525-M-SP/201112201746333/advert?channel=CARS

It's not advertised. It's a friends car. Has beige leather and usual m sport spec. It's 05

unkel

bgraham1 wrote: »

-UNKEL -long time reader..

I guessed that based on your registration date. That's why I said it took you a long time to post

The Bishop Basher

520i is underpowered. I bought one and flogged it on within the week. Got a 523i instead and still not happy. I'm on the hunt for a a 530d or 535d to get a good balance between performance and economy.

Compared to what you're used to the 520i will be very thirsty and if performance matters to you stay well clear.

bgraham1

I will drive it in a day or 2. That will tell a lot. I suspect you may be correct. Might find it hard to leave diesel

unkel

Swanner wrote: »

if performance matters to you stay well clear.

Performance is better than the diesels he has had in the past 6 years. He knows a 2.2l N/A 6 cylinder engine in a large saloon is no sportscar, but it ain't slow either. He knows in an ideal world he'd go for a 525 or more, but he is getting a bargain on the 520. By all means, bgraham1, test drive the car and make sure you're happy with the performance. Make sure to use kickdown when you're driving it (something not everyone is aware of when driving an auto)

vectra

jayok wrote: »

Torque - pfff - Hit 6,000 RPM and let the gearbox sort that one out

LOL
and watch the fuel needle drop as quickly as the speedo needle rises
I had a 520 - 6cyl Auto years ago and the bloody thing robbed me around town

The Bishop Basher

bgraham1 wrote: »

*Sorry E60 *
Im coming from a 1.9tdi that got 45mpg. how much of a shock will it be?
Is the 520i under powered? its an Auto ..

any info appreciated

Asking if it's underpowered would indicate a concern about performance and I'm just giving info based on my own experience. And the answer is yes, it's underpowered imo.

bgraham1 - As well as the kick down be sure to try sticking the auto into sport as well. It makes a fair difference in response when you need it.

bgraham1

Swanner wrote: »

Asking if it's underpowered would indicate a concern about performance and I'm just giving info based on my own experience. And the answer is yes, it's underpowered imo.

bgraham1 - As well as the kick down be sure to try sticking the auto into sport as well. It makes a fair difference in response when you need it.

May sound like a stupid q but what's kickdown?

unkel

@Swanner - fair enough

vectra wrote: »

LOL
and watch the fuel needle drop as quickly as the speedo needle rises
I had a 520 - 6cyl Auto years ago and the bloody thing robbed me around town

So you'd rather pay €6k more up front to save €1k per year in fuel (and possibly be hit with massive DMF and DPF bills)? This country has gone diesel mad. Madness!

The car is pre '08 so there's no tax benefit. OP did 45MPG in his TDI so he will do about 25MPG in his 520i. With diesel @€;1.40 and petrol @€;1.50 the difference per year in fuel is just over one thousand euro. That's all.

Diesel and lowish miles is mad, mad, mad :mad:

Sorry for rant

The Bishop Basher

It's not a stupid question if you're not used to auto's.

When you push down on the acclr pedal you'll feel a click as you floor it. Try it with the engine off and you'll feel it. This shifts down a gear or 2 and gives you an extra shove when you need it.

bgraham1

unkel wrote: »

Performance is better than the diesels he has had in the past 6 years. He knows a 2.2l N/A 6 cylinder engine in a large saloon is no sportscar, but it ain't slow either. He knows in an ideal world he'd go for a 525 or more, but he is getting a bargain on the 520. By all means, bgraham1, test drive the car and make sure you're happy with the performance. Make sure to use kickdown when you're driving it (something not everyone is aware of when driving an auto)

Exactly, il give it a go and I may be happy with the power? Im not looking for a ferrari, but would like a swift car. Not into trashing round the roads in a vtec civic anymore. (many years ago)
We will see.

bazz26

The 520i has 170bhp, the 520d has 163bhp, the 520d may feel more powerful due to having a turbo and the way the power is delivered.

Squall19

bazz26 wrote: »

The 520i has 170bhp, the 520d has 163bhp, the 520d may feel more powerful due to having a turbo and the way the power is delivered.

Why is the 520d .3 of a second quicker to 60 then?

Only time the 520i will be quicker is if yee have a race from a dead start all the way through the gears up to 120mph or so and maybe it might pull away, but who knows, its a drivers race.

From a roll in any given gear the 520d will be more than a match for the 520i.

I would put money on a 520d beating a 520i on the motorway rolling from 100kmh to 200kmh.

520i makes less than 170bhp I would imagine on our low ocatane fuel too, diesel doesn't have that problem.Reminds me of the raced I witnessed between a 320d and 320i on the motorway, from about 120kmh to 180kmh the 320d was ahead by a bit and then my little fabia went past them both:D

I wouldn't buy a 520i OP,engine wise its not great.Much better motors out there with the same economy, which are not hard to find, as the 520i drinks petrol apparently.

8k miles, is smiles per gallon.If its performance your after you wont be smiling in a 520i.It has a lower power to weight ratio than a Fiesta Zetec 1.6.

Get a Volvo turbo petrol or something;)

Leonard Hofstadter

Squall19 wrote: »

Why is the 520d .3 of a second quicker to 60 then?

Only time the 520i will be quicker is if yee have a race from a dead start all the way through the gears up to 120mph or so and maybe it might pull away, but who knows, its a drivers race.

From a roll in any given gear the 520d will be more than a match for the 520i.

I would put money on a 520d beating a 520i on the motorway rolling from 100kmh to 200kmh.

520i makes less than 170bhp I would imagine on our low ocatane fuel too, diesel doesn't have that problem.Reminds me of the raced I witnessed between a 320d and 320i on the motorway, from about 120kmh to 180kmh the 320d was ahead by a bit and then my little fabia went past them both:D

I wouldn't buy a 520i OP,engine wise its not great.Much better motors out there with the same economy, which are not hard to find, as the 520i drinks petrol apparently.

8k miles, is smiles per gallon.If its performance your after you wont be smiling in a 520i.It has a lower power to weight ratio than a Fiesta Zetec 1.6.

Get a Volvo turbo petrol or something;)

And the 520d could have turbo failure (over a grand), DMF failure if a manual (1000-1500), EGR valve failure (300 yoyos), positivie crankcase breather trouble (not sure of the price, but it's hardly cheap being a BMW), injector failure (a grand per injector apparently), MAF failure (300-400 yoyos as well) and swirl flap failure, which writes off the engine.

They have DPFs as well, so if the OP does a lot of town driving, he/she will need to replace that after a while too, and DPFs are another grand.

I don't know about you, but I'd gladly take the hit on fuel economy to avoid all of those troubles (in the interests of honesty and unbiasedness, the petrol BMWs give MAF trouble as well and they are known for being fond of a drop of oil from time to time), especially for a six cylinder petrol.

If you can live with the extra fuel costs (and bearing in mind that one problem with a diesel will more than wipe out the annual fuel cost savings), why wouldn't you choose a six cylinder petrol over a four cylinder diesel?

The OP won't get a 520d for anything like the price they would get a 520i for either - and why should the OP spend more for a car that has the potential to have a lot more trouble, especially when he/she does not do a lot of miles every year.

As long as the OP accepts that a 520i is not going to be winning any races, they're a great car. Yes a 525i is undoubtedly a better one, and is more in keeping with company that sells its cars on being "the Ultimate Driving Machine", especially for only €100 extra in tax every year, but a 520i doesn't disgrace itself either. It's still faster from 0-60 than an A4, and it is still much quicker than most other cars on sale.

The only reason diesels "win" these in-gear acceleration tests is because they're done right in the middle of the power band of a diesel, cars have gearboxes for a reason and if you drop a gear or two you'll see that a petrol is every bit as quick as a diesel.

If the OP goes for an auto, he/she won't have to worry about this anyway:)!

cojomo2

OP,

I had one of these cars, sld it a couple of days ago. On the fuel consumption front, it was higher than I expected...I did mainly city driving, small bit of motorway. To fill up it cost just under 100 euro, and I would get anywhere from 280-320 miles per fill.

I was lucky enough not to have to pay out fow any parts etc while I had it so cant comment on that.

bgraham1

cojomo2 wrote: »

OP,

I had one of these cars, sld it a couple of days ago. On the fuel consumption front, it was higher than I expected...I did mainly city driving, small bit of motorway. To fill up it cost just under 100 euro, and I would get anywhere from 280-320 miles per fill.

I was lucky enough not to have to pay out fow any parts etc while I had it so cant comment on that.

OH this makes me nervous... goint to try and drive it today.

cojomo2

bgraham1 wrote: »

OH this makes me nervous... goint to try and drive it today.

yep, 1 of the reasons I sold it! How many miles are on the clock, whats the condition like, and whats the asking price? It may not be as good a deal as you think, or it may well be a bargain...I 'd be interested to know.

I just sold my 04..66miles..amazing condition..really like new..full service history, full leather etc..got 8150

voxpop

Came from a 1.9 tdi to a 523i - It feels like you are spending a huge amount on fuel - but its about double the fuel costs roughly. Tax is about double also. The 523 didnt seem that quick but what made up for it was dropping a gear and revving the nuts off it . I drove a few autos (523 and 525) didnt like either - it takes the fun out of it, in my opinion, and whats the use of having a large petrol engine if you cant have a bit of fun every now and again.

Also, my diesel car cost virtually nothing in maintenance, as have all my other diesel cars. The 523 repair costs were more than all my diesels put together - so dont think that just because its a N/A petrol car, its gonna run forever without needing work.
Dont let the "something might break on the diesel and cost more" argument sway you - work out the figures using pessimistic values for petrol and mpg. If you think you can live with the extra cost then try it for 6 months, you can always change back - once you dont overpay for the 5er.

bgraham1

cojomo2 wrote: »

yep, 1 of the reasons I sold it! How many miles are on the clock, whats the condition like, and whats the asking price? It may not be as good a deal as you think, or it may well be a bargain...I 'd be interested to know.

I just sold my 04..66miles..amazing condition..really like new..full service history, full leather etc..got 8150

It's going to cost about €10k, 70miles. Vgc. Full leather and m sport extras.

bgraham1

Voxpop-
I estimate my annual fuel bill for the 520I would be around 3300 and the diesel was 1500.

So I am probably there or there abouts with my calc's

I was the same with regard to diesel maintenance, practically nothing outside the normal servicing. But I never had a BMW diesel so can't comment for them. I mainly had vag's

unkel

bgraham1 wrote: »

I estimate my annual fuel bill for the 520I would be around 3300 and the diesel was 1500.

How did you estimate that?

Based on your 8k miles per year, 45MPG in your old diesel and 25MPG in the 520i petrol and with diesel @€;1.40 and petrol @€;1.50 the difference per year in fuel is just over one thousand euro. Way, way less than your calculation. Show us your calculation!

bgraham1

unkel wrote: »

How did you estimate that?

Based on your 8k miles per year, 45MPG in your old diesel and 25MPG in the 520i petrol and with diesel @€;1.40 and petrol @€;1.50 the difference per year in fuel is just over one thousand euro. Way, way less than your calculation. Show us your calculation!

I was too long doing my calc's car is sold. Got an offer he couldnt refuse.
that makes that decision.

unkel

bgraham1 wrote: »

I was too long doing my calc's car is sold. Got an offer he couldnt refuse.
that makes that decision.

LOL, thanks for your sober, precise and detailed answer

Any chance of that calculation too?

Idbatterim

the 520 in an auto is going to be slow and heavy on fuel. With the 523, you will be paying 2.5L road tax, its the old 525 engine, detuned to 177bhp. In the uk, the 525 was replaced with a more powerful (218bhp and improved consumption) but over here, but all the the 2.5 L cars here seem to be the 523's... hence as much as I love the 5 series, Im going for a E46 facelift coupe, because they are lighter on fuel and quicker than same engine in equivalent 5 series...