Some Focus Advice Please!

skerry

Hi all. After being on the search for a car the last couple of months I think I've finally decided on what I want. I'm hoping to track down a Focus 1.6 Diesel hatchback (2005-2006). I've been scouring Donedeal and Carzone and noticed a lot more 1.6 petrols are popping up with 1.6 diesels being hardish to come across. A Zetec spec model would be nice. Does anyone out there know how the 1.6 petrol and diesel compare with regards to MPG and as a car overall. I'm hoping to have money together this Friday. Should I hold out for the Diesel or maybe settle for a 1.6 petrol? I'm commuting in and out to Limerick from Clare every day which is why I was looking towards a diesel over a petrol. Its looking like an English/ Northern car might be the only option with a lot of dealers, anyone know if I'm better off going for an Irish car or is there any difference. Advice as always appreciated

bazz26

05/06 TDCi models are rare as hen's teeth as they were expensive to buy new here. Most of them were bog standard LX models. I had a 05 TDCi Ghia for two years and all that needed replacing was a boot lock which are known to give trouble. Engine is co-designed with Peugeot/Citroen and is used in their cars too along with Mazda, Volvo and the MINI.

There were two different versions of the 1.6 TDCi in that Focus, 90bhp and 110bhp, Irish LX and Zetec TDCi models came in 90bhp where as the Ghia and Titanium had the more powerful 110bhp. Most UK spec models came with the 110bhp. Downside of the 110bhp is that it has a particulate filter which can give problems if the car is used for short trips or town driving.

The 110bhp version is nippy in the Focus and both are good on juice but the engine has bit of a rep for blowing turbos on these so make sure to have any car you are looking at examined by a mechanic first.

Here are a few if you are willing to travel:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201105201085935
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201108201353675

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

05/06 TDCi models are rare as hen's teeth as they were expensive to buy new here. Most of them were bog standard LX models. I had a 05 TDCi Ghia for two years and all that needed replacing was a boot lock which are known to give trouble. Engine is co-designed with Peugeot/Citroen and is used in their cars too along with Mazda, Volvo and the MINI.

There were two different versions of the 1.6 TDCi in that Focus, 90bhp and 110bhp, Irish LX and Zetec TDCi models came in 90bhp where as the Ghia and Titanium had the more powerful 110bhp. Most UK spec models came with the 110bhp. Downside of the 110bhp is that it has a particulate filter which can give problems if the car is used for short trips or town driving.

The 110bhp version is nippy in the Focus and both are good on juice but the engine has bit of a rep for blowing turbos on these so make sure to have any car you are looking at examined by a mechanic first.

Here are a few if you are willing to travel:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201105201085935
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201108201353675

Thanks for the reply. That first Focus is in a garage just down the road from me (I'm in Clare). Had a look at it before but thought he was asking a bit much for it at €7900. Any idea what price range an 05/06 Focus would be at, or is that the going rate? Does look a better deal than the one in Limerick though, its a year newer and Zetec extras but only €400 more. So you reckon I'd be better off getting an English one as its probably gonna be 110BHP rather than the 90 in the Irish version. Are the two issues you mentioned expensive to repair?

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

...There were two different versions of the 1.6 TDCi in that Focus, 90bhp and 110bhp, Irish LX and Zetec TDCi models came in 90bhp where as the Ghia and Titanium had the more powerful 110bhp. [/URL]

You sure about that Bazz? I had an 04 and an 05 1.6 TDCI 110bhp Zetec C-Max.

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You sure about that Bazz? I had an 04 and an 05 1.6 TDCI 110bhp Zetec C-Max.

Nearly certain. C-Max engine line up for the most part didn't mirror that of the regular Focus. For example you didn't get the C-Max with the 1.4 litre petrol engine from the Focus. Focus TDCi was definately available in 90bhp.

bazz26

skerry wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. That first Focus is in a garage just down the road from me (I'm in Clare). Had a look at it before but thought he was asking a bit much for it at €7900. Any idea what price range an 05/06 Focus would be at, or is that the going rate? Does look a better deal than the one in Limerick though, its a year newer and Zetec extras but only €400 more. So you reckon I'd be better off getting an English one as its probably gonna be 110BHP rather than the 90 in the Irish version. Are the two issues you mentioned expensive to repair?

Prices for second hand small diesel engined cars are strong due to supply and demand. Turbo failure can happen on either as it is basically the same engine just in different states of tune. Depending where you get it replaced it can be expensive, upwards of €500 I'd guess. Particulate filter or DPF only applied to the 110bhp version and again costs about €1k to replace.

couldntthink

Those 1.6tdci engines are a disaster. Lots of them are giving serious engine trouble in every make and model they've been fitted too. The problem seems to be the engine oil being used in these cars. They need a low sulphur engine oil which many garages and dealers don't bother with. The oil pick up in the oil pan gets blocked with sludge as does the gauze filter for the turbo. So be careful. Just something to look out for.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

Prices for second hand small diesel engined cars are strong due to supply and demand. Turbo failure can happen on either as it is basically the same engine just in different states of tune. Depending where you get it replaced it can be expensive, upwards of €500 I'd guess. Particulate filter or DPF only applied to the 110bhp version and again costs about €1k to replace.

Thanks for that. So is there anything I can do to get a garage to convince me these things are OK other than take their word for it. If its local I'm hoping to get someone to check over it for me, not always possible though if its up the country

couldntthink

Some garages drill holes in the oil pick up strainer to prevent build up. Some dealers are fitting new pick ups during the service. If it was my customer I would remove the sump, clean or replace the pick up(depending) and then re fill with high quality low SAPS (sulphur) engine oil. Basically if I were you I'd get the petrol or try getting a 1.8 tdci (if you're set on a diesel focus). If not I'd make sure the car was driving and sounding right then take it to a trusted mechanic for the above work. Thing is the 1.8tdci is quite heavy on diesel. I'd be going for a 1.9tdi 90bhp from the vw range. If well minded, they are quite reliable and very economical. Also good resale value.

bazz26

The DPF goes through a regeneration cycle regularly to burn off the soot particals produced by the engine. It sounds like the fan and if the cycle hasn't completed it will run for about 5 or 10 mins after the engine is switched off.

On my previouse car which had the same engine, the DPF regeneration cycle came on quite regularly. The DPF got blocked so the car's computer constantly started the regeneration cycle trying to burn off the soot. This failed and the DPF got totally blocked with soot, eventually the engine management light came on and the computer put the car into limp home mode to protect the engine from further damage. Limp home mode meant that the car would not rev about 1500 rpm and became undriveable. Garage had to totally clean out the system and replace the particular filter, cost me almost €1k.

No idea if you can tell if a turbo is on the way out, I'm sure a mechanic would know more. If you are buying from a garage make sure you get a good warranty with it.

couldntthink

Never buy anything that has ever had anything to do with france or french people.

200motels

Get a Honda Diesel probably the best Diesel engine of them all.

skerry

Cheers for the input people. Might see what local garages can get me in and what they can offer in terms of warranty. Only other alternative was a Corolla hatchback but think the Focus is a bit more spacier and manly and I've heard good things about the 1.6 TDCI

166man

Whats your budget mate?

-Corkie-

bazz26 wrote: »

The DPF goes through a regeneration cycle regularly to burn off the soot particals produced by the engine. It sounds like the fan and if the cycle hasn't completed it will run for about 5 or 10 mins after the engine is switched off.

On my previouse car which had the same engine, the DPF regeneration cycle came on quite regularly. The DPF got blocked so the car's computer constantly started the regeneration cycle trying to burn off the soot. This failed and the DPF got totally blocked with soot, eventually the engine management light came on and the computer put the car into limp home mode to protect the engine from further damage. Limp home mode meant that the car would not rev about 1500 rpm and became undriveable. Garage had to totally clean out the system and replace the particular filter, cost me almost €1k.

No idea if you can tell if a turbo is on the way out, I'm sure a mechanic would know more. If you are buying from a garage make sure you get a good warranty with it.

How did yours block up Bazz??. How do you know when its regenerating??

lifer_sean

bazz26 wrote: »

05/06 TDCi models are rare as hen's teeth as they were expensive to buy new here. Most of them were bog standard LX models.
Here are a few if you are willing to travel:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201105201085935
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201108201353675

That second focus with the 05 LK plate is a uk import and is a 90bhp LX bog standard model.

bazz26

-Corkie- wrote: »

How did yours block up Bazz??. How do you know when its regenerating??

Previous owner of my S40 must have been driving alot of short trips as the mechanic I spoke to who changed it said the entire system, not just the DPF, had to be unblocked out.

On the PSA HDi engines the regeneration cycle sounds like the fan. Mine would stay on for about 5 mins after the engine was switched off, at first it was occasional but over time it became more regular as the car's ECU tried to clear the blockage. Next signs where that the car would become sluggish at times. Eventually the ECU would shut off the regeneration cylce altogether, the put the car into limp home mode and the engine emmissions light stayed on. Car was pretty much undriveable at that stage and had to be put on a recovery truck.

skerry

166man wrote: »

Whats your budget mate?

I'm hoping to get something for about the 6k mark, small bit of flex in that but not much

skerry

Still haven't came across a suitable 1.6 diesel focus to buy. I'm seriously considering a 1.6 petrol instead as there seems to be more of them around and they're a bit cheaper too. Need to get a car under my a$$ in the next couple weeks and the hunt for a diesel seems to be pretty fruitless. Any advice on the 1.6 diesel versus the 1.6 petrol. I'm commuting from Clare to Limerick 5 days a week, would I be better off holding out for a diesel (ie does this sort of miles justify paying extra for the diesel)?? Also any opinions on reliability and MPG of the two? Thanks in advance kind sirs

Leonard Hofstadter

Petrol 1.6s are well proven and are very reliable.

Not as economical as the diesel obviously, and the version in the LX and Zetec has less power than the Ghia/Titanium, but I'd certainly sacrifice a few mpg for the sake of knowing I'll never had to replace a DPF or a DMF:)!

The 1.6 TDCi is a reliable engine apart from the DPF issues though. There will be a lot more decent engined Foci in the UK - the 115 PS 1.6 was available in LX and Zetec over there, and most diesels will be the 110 PS 1.6 rather than the 90 PS 1.6 most Irish cars have.

Mc Love

skerry wrote: »

Still haven't came across a suitable 1.6 diesel focus to buy. I'm seriously considering a 1.6 petrol instead as there seems to be more of them around and they're a bit cheaper too. Need to get a car under my a$$ in the next couple weeks and the hunt for a diesel seems to be pretty fruitless. Any advice on the 1.6 diesel versus the 1.6 petrol. I'm commuting from Clare to Limerick 5 days a week, would I be better off holding out for a diesel (ie does this sort of miles justify paying extra for the diesel)?? Also any opinions on reliability and MPG of the two? Thanks in advance kind sirs

Check the UK - there are still savings to be had

Henry Ford III

Mc Love wrote: »

Check the UK - there are still savings to be had

Yes, but the usual caveats apply. HPI, fsh, mph speedo etc.

It'll always be a UK import, which may affect it's future value, but a good'un will serve you well. Most of them are well specced.

skerry

Cheers for the input guys. I'm just trying to weight up the chances of the turbo going on the diesel (or any of the above mentioned problems) versus poorer fuel efficiency on the petrol. Still haven't given up hope on the diesel but if a spankingly nice Ghia or titanium petrol pop up at the right price that could all change. Need something soonish though, getting the bus into college was depressing enough without having too do it with a full license in my pocket and a car loan approved

Henry Ford III

This applies to most modern diesels but the dpf thing won't happen if the car is driven decent distances reasonably regularly.

Diesels aren't that good at stop start urban journeys, and are worse in the winter as the heater takes a few miles to start working well.

Turbos on the 1.6TDCI don't tend to cause trouble, and a decent service history with regular quality oil changes should provide extra assurance.

DMF can be an issue, but only at higher mileages. Some go and others don't.

skerry

Seen a nice 06 Focus, 1.6 petrol with around 60,000 km on it. Three door with Zetec spec and what look like the titanium spec alloys and stereo fitted. Private sale, asking price is around €7000. Does anyone know if that seems like a reasonable price? Thinking of viewing this weekend.

Hal1

That sounds like a resonable price range for that spec, but don't be afraid to try haggle a bit off or a bit more warranty.

skerry

Hal1 wrote: »

That sounds like a resonable price range for that spec, but don't be afraid to try haggle a bit off or a bit more warranty.

Gonna try haggle if possible once I view it (if I'm happy with it). Private sale so warranty won't apply.