Reduced Hours in Permanent Part Time Job

BoardsMember

Hi. My wife has been working in her job for several years now. Her employers are starting to look at her hours, and asking her has she enough work to keep busy. Her work tends to be busy at certain times of the year, and particularly quiet during the school holidays.

If she has to reduce her hours, what is the best way to do it vis a vis possibly getting some scial welfare? Or is there any option in this regard? If not, what would be best from a tax perspective? She currently work 20hours per week, two and a half days. I work full time. We are taxed together.

The likelihood is that her hours per week will be cut, and/or that she will take school holidays off. I'm not even getting into the legal side of this, i.e. can they reduce hours, or would they have to make her redundant etc. What I want to know is, if she's pushed towards taking reduced hours, what would be the best way from a social welfare (and tax) perspective.

Thanks.

Lugh Ildanach

Her hours/wages cannot be cut without her agreement. However, if she does not agree, then the company may have to consider redundancies. In reality of course most people will accept the reduced hours.

There are two main considerations here, one is the impact on potential redundancy arising in the future. To ensure that any redundancy would be based on her normal/previous working hours, she should set out that she only agrees to the reduction of hours as a temporary measure and that she expects to go back to agreed terms and conditions once conditions permit. She should put this in writing and write to them on a regular basis confirming that she has not accepted this as a permanent change in conditions. Essentially the contract is suspended, and if redundancy later occurs, the contract is reactivated and her payment (and notice period) are based on her full pay.

The other aspect is about social welfare. To be eligible for Jobseekers Benefit, she must lose at least one day's employment, so a cut of one hour each day would not be enough to be considered eligible, althoug if the same cut resulted in moving from 4 days of employment to 3 days, this would result in payment.

Also, she must be available for and seeking full time work, which means she must be unemployed 3 out of 6 consecutive days (they don't count Sundays in their calculations).

She can therefore work 3 days a week (or 4 if one of the days is a Sunday) and be eligible for a payment, provided of course that she has lost at least one day's employment as described above. She will get 1/6 of the weekly Jobseekers payment for each day that she is unemployed. If she works even one hour in a day, she is considered employed on that day.

Therefore it would make most sense for her to squeeze her reduced hours into as few days as possible (and to make one of those days a Sunday), this way she will get paid Jobseekers for more days.

All of the above is based on the basis that she has sufficient stamps for Jobseekers Benefit (which she should have if she has been employed for 2 years or more). Different considerations apply if she doesn't have the stamps and she is applying for Jobseekers Allowance, so if this is the case let us know and someone can give you the relevant information.

BoardsMember

Thanks a million Lugh Ildanach for all the advice. I'll get her to get in touch with welfare to find out about the stamps.

Sunday work is not an option for her. From what you say, I'm not entirely clear would she qualify for jobseekers if she lost half a day. If not, then she would probably be better going to one and a half days, and getting JobSeekers benefit.

If she was to cut back to two days, or even one and a half days, does this leave her out of the tax bracket? I have a vague idea that if someone only works two days (or less) that they dont pay tax. Is there anything in this? If so, then presumably I can claim her tax credits.

eddiehen

Lugh Ildanach wrote: »

Also, she must be available for and seeking full time work, which means she must be unemployed 3 out of 6 consecutive days (they don't count Sundays in their calculations).

Seeking full-time work does not mean she has to be unemployed 3 out of 6 consecutive days!!!

Lugh Ildanach wrote: »

She can therefore work 3 days a week (or 4 if one of the days is a Sunday) and be eligible for a payment, provided of course that she has lost at least one day's employment as described above.

Not true. She currently works 3 days per week, so hasn't suffered a loss of employment. What this means is that her normal level of employment is 3, and that she won't receive payment unless she works 2 days or less.

Lugh Ildanach wrote: »

Therefore it would make most sense for her to squeeze her reduced hours into as few days as possible (and to make one of those days a Sunday), this way she will get paid Jobseekers for more days.

If she worked 3 days including a sunday, then she still wouldn't get paid as sunday counts when somebody has an average (in this case 3 days) applied to the claim.


At the end of the day, the employers conditions for reducing her hours should be the conditions presented to the SW office when making a claim, as anything else will be fiddling the circumstances in order to get a payment. OP, if your wife is having her hours reduced insofar as she's working the same days, but less hours, then she will not qualify for JB. She will, however, qualify if/when she claims during school breaks.

If, however, your wife goes from 2 and a half days to 2 full days (regardless of Sundays or not), then she will be entitled to JB for 4 days per week.

Lugh Ildanach, i apologise for dissecting your answer and i mean no disrespect for doing so, but some of the info was quite inaccurate. However, the employment rights are completely on the ball, and no reduction in hours can be agreed without the OP's consent, but i would definitely display my dissatisfaction and register it in writing (whilst being wary of the redundancy factor mentioned!)

BoardsMember

Thanks eddiehen for clearing up that. Appreciate both the replies, thanks for taking the time.

eastbono

Looking at your wifes situation the best thing for her to do would be a temp lay off for school holidays, depending on her contributions she would be able to sign on and get sw payment for the school holidays if it is a temp lay off. School secretarys, school bus drivers, lollipop people and sub teachers do this all the time.

BoardsMember

So to sum up:

- if her hours go from 2 and a half days to two days, she is entitled to JB for 4 days

- for any temp layoffs during the year (school holidays/quieter periods), she's entitled to sign on and can receive social welfare

Re JB, presumably she needs to be seen to be looking for a full time job. What way does this work? Is it something she's likely to get for a certain amount of time?

Eastbono's post hints at whether it is defined as a temp layoff, do I need to look into what qualifies as temp layoff? Would it only work for the summer holidays.

From what I have read, there is no tax implication per se, i.e. whatever is earned is subject to PAYE, as we are taxed as a couple.

Thanks again for all the input, we really appreciate it. I know there is already loads of info on here, but getting a situation exactly like ours is hard to find, so thanks for taking the trouble to post.

eastbono

OP I tried to reply but for some reason it did not work sent you a pm

wmpdd3

eastbono wrote: »

Looking at your wifes situation the best thing for her to do would be a temp lay off for school holidays, depending on her contributions she would be able to sign on and get sw payment for the school holidays if it is a temp lay off. School secretarys, school bus drivers, lollipop people and sub teachers do this all the time.

Surly School secretarys etc are not available for full-time work as they will want to return to their usual job in Sept.

Would they have to show proof of looking for employment?

OP, I advise as above but make sure your wife puts it in writing that she is able and willing to work fulltime as soon as the business allows.

eastbono

School secretarys, school bus drivers, lollipop people and sub teachers can sign on for JSB/JSA during half term.