Irish Times today

Pigeon Reaper

interesting article

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0412/1224294483546.html

A COUNCILLOR has questioned the wisdom of a Garda campaign warning cyclists they are in “constant danger” on the city streets.

Gardaí mounted a checkpoint in Dame Street last week to advise pedestrian, cyclists and motorcyclists they account for two-thirds of those killed or injured in crashes in the city at this time of year. The move is part of an eight-week initiative to reduce deaths and serious injuries by highlighting advice to “vulnerable road users” that they should be aware of “constant danger”.

Speaking at the Cities for Children traffic and safety seminar in Dublin yesterday, Labour city councillor Andrew Montague, who spearheaded the Dublin bike scheme, said the Garda campaign could deter people from cycling.

“There have been two million trips on Dublin bikes to date and two injuries that required hospitalisation and both these cyclists were out of hospital within 24 hours. In 1997 24 cyclists were killed in Dublin, in 2009 three were killed, and there are far more cyclists now.”

Mr Montague said he had no problem with cyclists being given safety advice, but the message should not go out that cycling was dangerous. Research had shown that safety records improve as the number of cyclists increases.

“Cycling in Dublin is safer than ever before; the statistics show that. Stopping cyclists and telling them they’re in danger is counterproductive; it will only deter people from cycling and the less people cycle, the more cyclists’ lives will be at risk.”

The conference heard that negative media coverage of the dangers of children walking and cycling can exaggerate road safety fears and lead parents to unnecessarily restrict their children’s mobility.

“Children are not being killed as they walk and cycle to school, but if they are driven to school they are at greater risk of obesity which is a genuinely great risk to their health,” said Máire Igoe, a senior executive officer with Dublin City Council. Children who did not pick up habits of walking or cycling were less likely to walk and cycle as adults.

Cookie_Monster

if I was walking or cycling along and was stopped by a Garda to be told I'm in danger simply by being there I'd assume they were taking the piss.

Once again the Gardai are making themselves look silly by insisting things that aren't even slightly dangerous are going to cause you to be in "constant danger"

(not their fault I know, they're just being told what to do)

tomasrojo

See monument's post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71603180&postcount=351

The justification for this campaign is flawed. Safety advice should be given to all road-users, no disputing that, but they are bundling cyclists in with pedestrians and motorcyclists because they don't have sufficient numbers of cycling injuries and deaths to make cycling sound dangerous. Bizarre stuff.

coolbeans

Totally futile and counter productive effort at road safety. This just goes to show that well meaning but utterly under/ill informed people make decisions regarding safety policy. There is no rigour at all. Very Irish. Clearly they are intent on creating a climate of fear where none exists. Really silly stuff. Embarrassing to be honest, similar to "Speed kills"...no it doesn't, "Arrive Alive"... I intend to etc

Bambaata

My girlfriend was stopped and given a high viz. She thought it was a bit odd alright and wont be wearing the XL high viz she was given which she could probably wrap around her twice! It seems more dangerous to wear this high viz as it's miles too big!

mgmt

This guy makes really good points about the dumb ways safety authorities go about implementing safe cycling policies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ZcQ24_JVQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=197s

Lewotsil

Reeks of RSA, Uncle Gaybo and whatever other quango your havin putting the squeez on the gardaí - not just a waste of resources but undoing the good of other 'government' sponsored work ............. joke

Captain Havoc

Busy bodies: that looks fun, we'll have to change that.

tomasrojo

If they stopped me, would I be arrested for entering into a lengthy disquisition on inappropriate groupings in statistics?

ednwireland

tomasrojo wrote: »

If they stopped me, would I be arrested for entering into a lengthy disquisition on inappropriate groupings in statistics?

that or you'd bore him to death

Doctor Bob

tomasrojo wrote: »

If they stopped me, would I be arrested for entering into a lengthy disquisition on inappropriate groupings in statistics?

The last time the Guards ran a similar campaign, in October last year, I deliberately changed my route home following a tip-off from a colleague in the hopes they'd stop me for a chat, and they did.

To be fair to the Guard who called me aside, he was very reasonable and was willing to listen to my points re helmets [I don't], daytime high-viz [I don't], etc. I think he was a bit surprised that I wasn't rolling my eyes at him or cussing under my breath. Whether he'd have been as amenable to a statistical disquisition... Well, let me know how you get on!

tomasrojo

mgmt wrote: »

This guy makes really good points about the dumb ways safety authorities go about implementing safe cycling policies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ZcQ24_JVQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=197s

Good point about that Dutch lights campaign in that. It was quite funny, and it got the point across without making you associate cycling and death in your mind.

I'll see if I can find a clip of it.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WEQ5sAlA44&feature=player_embedded

The gist of it is that lights attached to your person are fine, but make sure you remember to switch them on ... and then off when you're finished cycling.

RJGMovie

As a Dublin city cyclist, I think the Garda should be given some credit for at least doing something. Maybe they should stand around pedestrian lights to "observe" the cylists putting pedestrians and themselves in danger.

mgmt

tomasrojo wrote: »

Good point about that Dutch lights campaign in that. It was quite funny, and it got the point across without making you associate cycling and death in your mind.

I'll see if I can find a clip of it.

EDIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WEQ5sAlA44

The gist of it is that lights attached to your person are fine, but make sure you remember to switch them on ... and then off when you're finished cycling.

LOL great ad. It wouldn't do Gay Byrne any harm to take a trip to Amsterdam to find out how they promote cycling.

tomasrojo

Cyclist.ie commenting on the RSA's latest campaign (which I assume has been co-ordinated with this Garda initiative):

http://www.cyclist.ie/2011/04/counter-productive-rsa-campaign-a-red-herring-say-cyclists-because-it-scaremongers-about-the-risks-in-cycling/

Sacred_git

Bambaata wrote: »

My girlfriend was stopped and given a high viz. She thought it was a bit odd alright and wont be wearing the XL high viz she was given which she could probably wrap around her twice! It seems more dangerous to wear this high viz as it's miles too big!

personally i find that quite good - giving out a high viz, especially to women cause lets face it the vast majority are a danger to themselves out there, wobble wobble!

petethedrummer

If donning a hi-viz automatically improves bike handling skills, Denis Menchov should be forced to wear one.

GlennaMaddy

Lewotsil wrote: »

Reeks of RSA, Uncle Gaybo

and Nanny State

ThisRegard

Clr Montague was on the Last Word the other evening talking about this and he was a breath of fresh air from someone within the machinations of the state. He basically echoed the sentiments around here that's it's wrong to give cyclists, and potential cyclists, the impression that by cycling around Dublin you're putting your life at risk.