Scared of going back in to work.

Shelli2

I'm currently out sick from work with severe viral gastroentoritis, haven't felt this bad in a long time. I've been out since last Thursday, and the doc has signed me off until this thursday coming at the earliest. But i'm terrified of going back and the attitude my boss will have towards me. He's known to be a bit of an ass as the best of times, and I don't deal well with confrontation and usually just take any ****e he throws my way.

A couple of things worry me and give me the feeling that he'll kick off when I go back. Firstly, I was on my holiday at the end of March, 7 days in total, booked off well in advance, however when I was booking the days he warned me that he wasn't impressed with my attendance last year and that I'd have few holiday days left if I took the 7 days (we are obliged to keep holidays to cover the Christmas period when we are not open). I admit I did have a large number of sick days last year, mainly due to an eye injury I suffered which led to 2wks off work (all certified from the hospital). Which he was also quite rude and sceptical about, didn't right out say he didn't belive me, but made comments that seemed like he thought I was exageratting my injury.

Secondly, I am undergoing some tests in the hospital at the moment for something unrelated, and always schedule these outside my working hours. I had one such appointment on Thursday morning last week, which I was unable to attend. My mother happened to call my work place and was informed by my boss that I was off sick, to which she replied off the cuff, "oh I knew she had a doctors appointment alright".
I have always communicated with my boss by txt, as have most of the other staff, he prefers this as he can often be in meetings or dealing with customers and does not like to answer calls. Having woken in the early hours of Monday morning, realising I was still very unwell, and needed to see a doctor and would not be able for work, (I was due into work at noon), I called my clinic at 9.30 exactly, when they open, and managed to get an appointment at 1.30. I sent a text immediately to my boss, logged on my phone at 9.35am. To which he replied "Your mother told me you had a doctors appointment last thursday, it's ridiculous texting me at this time on a monday". I replied to him "I did have an appointment on thursday for something unrelated which I was unable to attend, I was hoping to be well enough to come in today or I would have informed you yesterday. I sorry for leaving you stuck today". Was this response ok? I don't want to seem rude to him either. Also, the other medical issue is quite personal, and I really don't want to have to talk to him about it, but I have a feeling he will push the issue when I return.

I sent him one more message as soon as I left the doctors, "I have just left the doctors, I have viral gastroentoritis, she says I'll be very ill for another couple of days as there is nothing she can give me. She gave me a cert until April 14th, I'm hoping to feel well before that, I'll keep you updated. Sorry again"

I've been in my current position for over 2 years, and also worked for my employer in a differeny business 8 yeards ago, so we know each other a long time, and are quite friendly. He is the owner of the company, it's quite small, so there is very little HR procedure or anything like that. But from time to time I feel like he purposely 'puts me in my place' for want of a better way of expressing it. We can be laughing and joking one minute, and if something annoys him he will pick on something small and make sure I know who is the boss. But this is quite rare, and something I've learned to put up with, no job is perfect and I love my job and the people I work with. And he has made it clear that he is happy with my work.

I just have this awful sense of forboding. I know he is angry, and will probably want to let me know that he is angry. But I've done nothing wrong.

How do I handle this situation? Not only am I physically ill right now, but also mentally toremented with the thought of going back into work to face him.

Sorry for the long rant, and the bad spelling. I'm very tired and upset right now. Thanks for reading.

scientist

When your sick your sick and legally you have done nothing wrong. If he is making you feel bad then its him that has the problem. But you are within you rights. He knows by now that you are suscepible to the guilt trip and that it always works like a charm on you. Just go back to work and say Hi as normal and get on with your job but never ever apologise for being sick. Dont let him think you are even sorry about it. He will quickly learn that it wont wash with you.

bbam

He shouldn't act up unprofessionally but equally a cert from doctor or hospital isn't the suit of Armour that folks think it is.

My favorite company line on this is "the cert explains your absence but doesn't excuse it"

He's still in rights to comment on your absence and question the details..
If he has an issue you could offer to go to a doctor of his choosing for independant verification...

Remember when you're out sick your job goes undone and that is a loss of some sorts to the company..

The whole thing with your mother ringing just makes it look like you're taking the p1ss, on top of high absence last year... I've had folks on paperwork for that type of situation...

Irish_Elect_Eng

You say that you have worked for this boss before and that normally you enjoy your job and are quite friendly with our employer, also you do not mention any other significant work issues outside of the attendance or sick-day issue.

As your absences are all genuine, could it be that your boss thinks (incorrectly) that you are abusing his friendship and taking advantage of your relationship to take unnecessary days off?

This would explain

(1) His over-reaction to your illness based absence. He has been in business for many year and I am sure he has had other employees suffer a spate of illnesses. Perhaps fore reasons unknown to you he has formed the opinion that your are "pulling a sickie". Is there another employee that may have suggested this maliciously?
(2) His "putting you in your place", sometimes managers struggle with balancing the personal and business relationships and try to exert their managerial position from time to time. I have seen employees abuse the personal side of relationships and been surprised when their "friendly boss" reacts strongly.

But to cut a long story short here is the the approach that I would recommend:

Firstly decide, do you want the job ? If it has become a "sick" or "poisonous" workplace then you may be better off and healthier elsewhere as the stress may be contributing to your illness.

Let's assume that work would be good except for this issue, so then it needs to be dealt with. I would recommend approaching your boss to discuss this before he raises the issue again so that you can set the tone of the discussion in a non confrontational way.

Perhaps you could open the conversation as follows:

"After our previous conversations I am concerned that my absences from work due to illness are affecting your trust in me and our working relationship. I understand that my absences have put pressure on you as a manager, but I can sincerely assure you that these absences have been genuine illnesses and unavoidable. I enjoy working with you here and I would like to discuss how we can improve our relationship."

Remember that the issue here is not your illnesses or your boss, but your working relationship. There is no absolute right or wrong, there is a relationship problem that you both want resolved. Open up a dialog, make sure that he knows that you are committed to the job and to him, that you value your working relationship and watn to get back to the levels of trust that existed before the current difficulties.

(One other small issue, let him know in general terms of any possible absences that you are aware of coming up in the future due to the other issue that you are experiencing. You do not have to tell him the nature of the issue, but he will appreciate the heads-up and you might make an arrangement to ensure that you can arrange cover at short notice and let him know that you have such an arrangement in place.)

Shelli2

bbam wrote: »

The whole thing with your mother ringing just makes it look like you're taking the p1ss, on top of high absence last year... I've had folks on paperwork for that type of situation...

This is the part I'm worried about, should I get a letter from the doctor explaining the situation or what?

I'm a hard worker, and not to blow my own horn, but I'm very good at my job, and my boss knows this and trusts me in work with a lot of things he doesn't trust other staff to deal with. I would never take the piss, I enjoy my job and am well aware that it's extrememly hard to find a new job at the moment.

I think it's that this situation could affect his trust in me that's getting to me so much.

scientist

You have to put your health first or you will never be any good to him. Gastroenteritis is a long drawn out thing . His lack of empathy is only going to make you more stressed and then you wont get better as quickly. Happens to everyone, back problems ,work stress etc. If it happened to him it would be get well cards and what not. Look ahead and see what treatments are coming up for you and just tell him straight out how this will impact your job. It would be illegal for him to fire you under these conditions so maybe going part time or something else could be arranged to give you a chance to recover. He should be open to some kind of a new arrangement.That way he doesn't lose out financially.

Eoin

scientist wrote: »

It would be illegal for him to fire you under these conditions

What do you mean? You can be let go if continued sick leave means that you're unable to do your job.

scientist

I was off sick for approx 4 months one time with a back problem and they just didnt pay me .I was permanent and they just replaced while i was off and when i came back all was well. No probs. I know others who did it too. They cannot fire you because of an illness. Its unfair dismissal and you could sue them.I got illness benefit. Another girl was off because of a nervous breakdown. Its no skin off their nose as long as there is someone there to do the job and they are not paying you aswell.Nobody is a machine. Sure if we could be fired for being sick there would be very few working at all.Everyone has a bad phase of health at least once in their life.

Eoin

That is incorrect. You can be let go if you are unable to fulfil your duties because of illness. Just because your employer didn't, doesn't mean this is the case for everyone.

Link.

Fair grounds for dismissal
Your employer could give one or more of the following reasons for your dismissal:

Capability

This includes issues such as lateness, absenteeism and persistent absence through illness or injury, either short-term or long-term.

If lateness or absenteeism is at issue, your employer will be expected to have documentary proof of this allegation, such as clocking-in records or documented absences on file that are not medically certified. In addition, your employer will also be expected to show that you were made aware of the problem and that you were warned as to the consequences for your continued employment.

If illness or injury is at issue, it is often assumed that you cannot be dismissed fairly while on certified sick leave from your work. However, this is not true. It is difficult to lay down hard and fast rules to apply to these cases as each will be treated on its own merits. Issues such as length of service, previous record and the importance of the job will vary and will have to be taken into account. These types of claim are often divided into short-term and long-term absences.

Dismissal related to short-term illness generally occurs where you have a medical problem that results in frequent absences for short periods from the workplace. Assuming that the genuine nature of your problem was not in question, your employer will have to show that a pattern of absence exists, that it is causing problems, that the problem is unlikely to get better and that you have been warned that dismissal is likely.

In a case of a long-term absence, however, your employer will be expected to obtain detailed medical evidence that an early return to work is unlikely. There is no set period of absence by which it can be said that a dismissal will or will not be considered reasonable. Obviously, the longer the absence, the easier it is for your employer to show that it is causing genuine difficulty in terms of the organisation of the workplace.

In terms of medical evidence you may be required to attend your employer's medical expert. If there is a conflict of medical evidence between you and your employer as to the possible return date, your employer will be expected to get a second opinion before taking the decision to dismiss you.

However, it is important to note that if your illness might be considered a disability under employment equality legislation, your rights under that particular legislation would also have to be taken into consideration.

So while it's not easy for them to let you go, it can happen.

scientist

I actually am correct because they cannot let her go since she is providing medical certs for all of her absences so it would be almost impossible and very expensive for them to try. She's even offering to have their doctor take a look at all the evidence.So no they cannot fire her for becoming sick.And certainly they have to try and accomodate her to any disability which she now might have such as a desk job in the case of backproblems. It's done all the time! Employers dont want expensive drama on their hands. Too much hassel so they will usually work with you to get it sorted. You shouldnt be scare mongering like that when there's no need for it. Anything can be sorted out.Obviously if she herself cannot cope then thats different but being bullied out because of an illness is just not allowed.

Eoin

I am not "scaremongering", I am stating fact - and providing links to reputable sources to back myself up. I'm going to quote this again; the emphasis is mine.

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

If illness or injury is at issue, it is often assumed that you cannot be dismissed fairly while on certified sick leave from your work. However, this is not true. It is difficult to lay down hard and fast rules to apply to these cases as each will be treated on its own merits.

It's one thing to say that it's hard to fire someone for being sick (which you and I have both said), and another to make a blanket statement to say you can't be fired at all. The latter statement is incorrect. It's not a good idea to think that providing a medical cert makes you untouchable.

Also "disability" has a specific meaning in employment law. The OP may or may not be considered to be "disabled", depending on what exactly the problem is. That will determine the level to which her employer has to accommodate her.

scientist

make a blanket statement to say you can't be fired at all? Cant find where i made this statement? Or maybe you decided i did?. I've said my piece and i know it to be true and correct. So i say to this girl that he wont fire you and if he does try he will get nowhere so dont worry just get better and back on the bandwagon and dont let anyone stress you out by telling you you'll be fired.Your relationship with your employer is good so talk to him and work out something.Make it work for you. By the way i'm here to help you and work out your problem so i'm talking to you directly cos obviously you are the one with the issue. I will send you an email .

Eoin

scientist wrote: »

make a blanket statement to say you can't be fired at all? Cant find where i made this statement? Or maybe you decided i did?.

Here you go:

scientist wrote:

They cannot fire you because of an illness.

scientist wrote: »

I've said my piece and i know it to be true and correct.

Apart from the link to a government body that I posted and quoted (twice) that says otherwise.

Once again, I'm not saying that she will be fired, or even that he will try to do so. I am just correcting your posts where you say that she can't be fired at all.

scientist

Like i said i will speak to her directly. AND YOU CANNOT BE FIRED BECAUSE OF AN ILLNESS. You are not on this thread to help this person sort out her problem.This is the last time i will speak with you. You can follow up all you like because i know how things go with companies and you are just reading from a manual. quit venting your anger when this poor girl has a problem. Adios and grow up.

Eoin

Cool it please, and read the link I posted.

bbam

I've been involved in paperwork to terminate an employee due to ongoing illness which means they can no longer perform their role... and have seen a number of similar cases.
Saying anything else is just wrong...

it shouldn't be the action of choice in every case and I've also facilitated employees on long term leave due to illness..

All that is needed is a documented HR process and strong detailed paperwork..

Irish_Elect_Eng

scientist wrote: »

Like i said i will speak to her directly. AND YOU CANNOT BE FIRED BECAUSE OF AN ILLNESS. You are not on this thread to help this person sort out her problem.This is the last time i will speak with you. You can follow up all you like because i know how things go with companies and you are just reading from a manual. quit venting your anger when this poor girl has a problem. Adios and grow up.

Scientist, You are incorrect, Eoin is correct.

mrsbyrne

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Scientist, You are incorrect, Eoin is correct.

scientist you are 100% wrong. OP please dont listen to this poster. have had someone in my office this week employment terminated after 23 years because of recent abscences caused by illness, a genuine illness, chronic heart trouble. Eoin absolutely correct. scientist owes both eoin and OP an apology IMHO:mad:

Eoin

No need for apologies

I don't want to scare the OP, but I just think it's really important that people realise that a medical cert does not offer immunity from disciplinary procedures.

Shelli2

I am well aware of this and this is why I am worried. I don't think he would fire me (at least I hope not). And it's not an ongoing illness, it's one week of illness. Last year was an injury which had no long term effect.

It's just that I'm not good with confrontation, and even though I don't feel like I have anything to apologise for, (it's not my fault I was Ill), i do fell bad for leaving my employer in the lurch.

My main problem is I have no idea how to deal with his attitude when I return, hopefully I'm over-reacting but I'm scared (many times have I come home from work crying over small things, I know I'm oversensitive, although I never let anyone see it, usually end up crying to myself in the toilets)

Should I apologise? Should I just hand him my cert and say nothing?

MissJustice

Shelli2 wrote: »

I am well aware of this and this is why I am worried. I don't think he would fire me (at least I hope not). And it's not an ongoing illness, it's one week of illness. Last year was an injury which had no long term effect.

It's just that I'm not good with confrontation, and even though I don't feel like I have anything to apologise for, (it's not my fault I was Ill), i do fell bad for leaving my employer in the lurch.

My main problem is I have no idea how to deal with his attitude when I return, hopefully I'm over-reacting but I'm scared (many times have I come home from work crying over small things, I know I'm oversensitive, although I never let anyone see it, usually end up crying to myself in the toilets)

Should I apologise? Should I just hand him my cert and say nothing?

Sounds like a tough situation, you poor thing. Hand your cert into your employer, and your employer cannot fire you for being genuinely ill, that would be disability discrimination. You are not legally required to apologise to anyone, and I certainly wouldn't!

Eoin

Shelli2, I would be making sure to convince them you've fully recovered from the illness and that you're good to resume work, and leave it at that.

MissJustice wrote: »

your employer cannot fire you for being genuinely ill, that would be disability discrimination.

Wrong - covered in detail already.

Irish_Elect_Eng

I will recommend a book that is excellent on the subject of how to deal with this sort of situation, it is a practical book that can teach the skills of dealing with confrontation.

Crucial Confrontations

A short video

This has been a revelation and enabled me to resolve many difficult situations.

Good Luck

xxlauraxxox

wow i never knew an employer can sack you for been out sick i was out sick for 9months after a car crash(wasnt my fault) and subsided 3 crushed discs in my back but i always kept my employer up to date with my progress and he told me hed keep my job there for me as long as i wanted him to when i was talking to the citizens advice in relation to the matter i was informed that as long as your over your probation period and provide a certificate the employer can not question it guess they were wrong even if i miss a day due to an illness i get a cert to cover my absence cus my employer can be a little odd

i hope your first day back went well and you didnt get grief

MissJustice

Eoin wrote: »

Shelli2, I would be making sure to convince them you've fully recovered from the illness and that you're good to resume work, and leave it at that.



Wrong - covered in detail already.

I didn't read the entire thing, thanks for letting me know! Ya it depends on the illness, treatment etc. An employer has to try and accommodate an ill member of staff, however if a person is too ill/sick to work on a continuous basis, then they wouldn't be fit to work.

Its a tough one, depends on the circumstances.

Eoin

MissJustice wrote: »

I didn't read the entire thing, thanks for letting me know! Ya it depends on the illness, treatment etc. An employer has to try and accommodate an ill member of staff, however if a person is too ill/sick to work on a continuous basis, then they wouldn't be fit to work.
.

I'm not being pedantic, but I think an employer has to try and accommodate an employee with a disability not an illness. In practical terms, these words might overlap a little at times, but there is a difference in legal terms.