FF seeks referendum on donations

Seth Brundle

Key points in the bill include:
- Ensuring all corporate donations over €100 euro would have to be declared within 14 days, authorised by a general meeting and registered with the Standards in Public Offices Commission;
- All companies, directors and significant shareholders would have to declare and current or potential public contracts at the time of making any donation;
- Cut the allowable individual donations to political parties from €6,348 to €2,500, with the level at which these must be publicly declared to fall from €5,078 to €1,000;
- Requiring the publication of donation statements within 25 days of polling;
- Providing for Sipo to audit the accounts of political parties each year, with the income and expenditure account, balance sheet and donations statement to be published;
- Implementing the recommendations of Mr Justice Michael Moriarty to extend the provisions to independent candidates.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0411/breaking47.html




What are they after with this? There has to be some kind of angle here as i don't believe that FF can do honesty!

They have a huge debt which wouldn't get repaid if they couldn't pander to wealthy business people as before (if any would give to them now).

eigrod

If only they had some time in Government in the recent past to implement these amendments themselves.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I'm guessing its because their donations have dried up and they now have nothing to lose by doing this.

donal_cam

They're effectively trying to put themselves on life support- this ban wouldn't affect them as much now given that they're donation repellent, while state funding will give them enough to rebuild the cumainn. Although the sight of MM trying to get people to vote for a proposal like this would probably result in a landslide against it.

Agent Smith

I'd support this, with one small addition

Ban Donations from Trade unions to Political Parties

thebman

It would need to be a limit of 100 Euro per month per member of the party and you should have to be a member to donate and then register that you donated that month IMO.

Otherwise just an outright ban.

I'm guessing their suggesting this in the hope that FG go against it to win some publicity as FG said they would implement it so they are trying to win some publicity for something that looks good that should be happening anyway if FG fulfill their manifesto.

PeterIanStaker

The party of the Brown Envelope want to have a referendum on donations.

I really don't think my brain is able to process this.

Liam Byrne

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

The party of the Brown Envelope want to have a referendum on donations.

I really don't think my brain is able to process this.

Think of the guy taking the football home when no-one will pick him; they're not getting any anymore, and therefore they don't want anyone else to get any either.

hallelujajordan

Such BS on here . . some people have lost all ability to be objective when it comes to FF. Micheal Martin promised that win or lose he would bring forward a bill implementing changes to the legislation on corporate donations within 100 days of the election. He is living up to his promise.

I would have thought that the moral high ground on boards.ie would welcome such a move.

DJCR

FF were not serving the peoples interest and got elected out. (Rightly so, peoples will)

FF are now adapting/changing to life on the opposition benches and listening to the people who elected them out.

Seems to me with some of the people here - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Is that necessarily a good thing looking forwards (not backwards to the old rhetoric of not one red cent (Adams, Varadkar) Labours way or Frankfurts way (Labour), they ruined the country (80% of the electorate) etc etc ?

Seriously though, is an opposition without FF a real option?

(As it stands now there would be Sinn Fein, ULA and Independants Vs. the mighty coalition).

Biggins

kbannon wrote: »

...What are they after with this? There has to be some kind of angle here as i don't believe that FF can do honesty

Its window-dressing for the gullible. FG spoke many times previous to election and in prior years that they would be addressing this issue at first opportunity.
Now that FF have nothing much left to lose, they are trying to put themselves forwards now in PR points as doing what the people wants (pity they didn't damn do that in any of ALL the years they were in power!) so they are playing PR to the masses and hope some will be stupid enough not to look under the covers of what lies behind this calling from them.

Its just one of the many oncoming open and sometimes will be, subtle PR stunts to try and paint themselves as something which they have been the opposite of for decades, if not generations!

They know in one form or another this form of change was coming from their opposition. Why not just jump on the bandwagon of the avocation of change but try also stealing the wagon of change and make it look that they are driving it all of a sudden - or all along!

Its simply political gamesmanship once again by Fianna Fail - and the sheep of this country will fall for it and swallow it hook, line and sinker.

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

Its window-dressing for the gullible. FG spoke many times previous to election and in prior years that they would be addressing this issue at first opportunity.

This is their first opportunity. It will be interesting to see if they support the Fianna Fail bill.

Biggins wrote:

Now that FF have nothing much left to lose, they are trying to put themselves forwards now in PR points as doing what the people wants (pity they didn't damn do that in any of ALL the years they were in power!) so they are playing PR to the masses and hope some will be stupid enough not to look under the covers of what lies behind this calling from them.

Or . . . Micheal Martin is living up to his promise to reform the Fianna Fail party and is using this as a first step.

Biggins wrote:

Its just one of the many oncoming open and sometimes will be, subtle PR stunts to try and paint themselves as something which they have been the opposite of for decades, if not generations!

They know in one form or another this form of change was coming from their opposition. Why not just jump on the bandwagon of the avocation of change but try also stealing the wagon of change and make it look that they are driving it all of a sudden - or all along!

Its simply political gamesmanship once again by Fianna Fail - and the sheep of this country will fall for it and swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Its like DJCR said . . damned if you do, damned if you dont. . Micheal Martin has promised to reform FF. Its a little too easy to just dismiss every move towards reform as a political stunt.

Those who want reform should welcome moves like this !!

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

This is their first opportunity. It will be interesting to see if they support the Fianna Fail bill.

They more than likely will. In fairness to FG (of whom I'm NOT an advocate of), they have been so far overwhelmingly distracted by corp' rates, the EU, economy battles and healthcare issues amid other things in the few weeks they've gained office, that some things would bound to be in the queue of things to be done/tackled, somewhere.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Or . . . Micheal Martin is living up to his promise to reform the Fianna Fail party and is using this as a first step.

Well if thats the case, it might just be a first for Fianna Fail - a promise they actually follow thru on.
(A novelty in itself!)
However some that I've spoken too, agree with me and they too see it as political gamesmanship.
Each to their own on opinions of how they look at the matter however.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Its like DJCR said . . damned if you do, damned if you dont. . Micheal Martin has promised to reform FF. Its a little too easy to just dismiss every move towards reform as a political stunt.

Those who want reform should welcome moves like this !!

If Micheal Martin wants really to reform FF - the VERY first thing he should do is be honest and truthful as to his own orgs history - before he goes on a later tirade of supposing they are the better ones to be leading the state.
He CANNOT espouse and evoke that he is standing on principles of good morality and doing good deeds when by his own mouth, he continues to deny the existence of a FF foundation of corruption, abuse of laws amid other may wrong doings and actions what run contrary to their now supposed principled stance of "doing the right thing!"

later12

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Those who want reform should welcome moves like this !!

I agree. It demonstrates the hollowness of some factions of the anti-FFers, that they don't actually seem to give much of a damn about standards like this in public office (I've yet to see a thread calling for anything like what FF have just suggested) and as soon as it is suggested they do not support it, but rather attempt to ridicule the opposition without examining the merits of what they are proposing. As one poster said in the above posts

the sight of MM trying to get people to vote for a proposal like this would probably result in a landslide against it.

However, given MM's popularity among ordinary voters, I think that's not necessarily true. But it does illustrate the point that there is some level of unjustified dismissal of the main opposition party.

Because lets get real here. There is one main opposition party. FG and Labour were opposition non-entities during the boom year, we do not need another opposition non-entity. Ignoring the opposition's warnings or criticisms or alternative policies is a dangerous position for the public to take, in my opinion. If any of you think FG and LAB don't need a political checking force in the Dail I think you are deluded. Even if you detest the party's past, it is worth listening to policy moves like this one.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Or . . . Micheal Martin is living up to his promise to reform the Fianna Fail party and is using this as a first step.

One of his first steps as leader of FF was to reinstate O'Dea
One of his second was to forget about his stint in the Dept of Health

If he wanted to reform he could DEFINITELY have skipped that first step, and the second would have proven that FF's amnesia/rewriting history was no longer acceptable either.

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

But it does illustrate the point that there is some level of unjustified dismissal of the main opposition party.

It's not unjustified. MM was in cabinet for 14 years as FF ran the country off the road and into a ditch. Now he wants to bitch about how the people elected to clean up his mess are going about it.

I don't want to hear another word out of MM or FF, ever. I certainly am not going to listen to any of it.

DJCR

Liam Byrne wrote: »

One of his first steps as leader of FF was to reinstate O'Dea

Though he didn't have much choice.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

One of his first steps as leader of FF was to reinstate O'Dea
One of his second was to forget about his stint in the Dept of Health

If he wanted to reform he could DEFINITELY have skipped that first step, and the second would have proven that FF's amnesia/rewriting history was no longer acceptable either.

In what way did he reinstate O'Dea. . I understood that it was your neighbours in Limerick who did that ?

Biggins wrote:

If Micheal Martin wants really to reform FF - the VERY first thing he should do is be honest and truthful as to his own orgs history - before he goes on a later tirade of supposing they are the better ones to be leading the state.
He CANNOT espouse and evoke that he is standing on principles of good morality and doing good deeds when by his own mouth, he continues to deny the existence of a FF foundation of corruption, abuse of laws amid other may wrong doings and actions what run contrary to their now supposed principled stance of "doing the right thing!"

When MM was elected as leader of FF he apologised for the sins of the past and promised to reform FF going forward. On this basis the country returned him as the leader of the opposition and in effect charged him with the job of holding the coalition to account . . I'm not sure what more you expect him to do . . he has a mandate and he certainly doesn't need to do anything further (as you suggest) to gain the right to carry out his mandate.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

When MM was elected as leader of FF he apologised for the sins of the past and promised to reform FF going forward. On this basis the country returned him as the leader of the opposition and in effect charged him with the job of holding the coalition to account . . I'm not sure what more you expect him to do . . he has a mandate and he certainly doesn't need to do anything further (as you suggest) to gain the right to carry out his mandate.

Well in that case we will have to agree to disagree.

Prior, during and after the last election, anyone that confronted him (and alone, he was caught on camera by RTE while out campaigning a number of times) that asked his about his past and his parties past, he came out with the now well known (which he subsequently still repeats) and much joked about line "Well I disagree with your view on that matter" and he attempted (and still does) to whitewash Fianna Fail history and recorded history at that.

I see you disagree - and I would fight beside you so to you could hold onto a right to hold that opinion.
I feel however that also he is just a further extension of those that have gone before him.
As long as he continues down this tried whitewash version of FF history, he and his cronies will stay now an irrelevant spent force.
Long may it continue - till hopefully the org' ceases to exist.
(Wishful thinking, I know...)

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

In what way did he reinstate O'Dea. . I understood that it was your neighbours in Limerick who did that ?

Those who voted for the perjuror have a lot to answer for, but they didn't put O'Dea onto the FF front bench.

Also, I remember Martin claiming during the election campaign that he didn't appreciate "dirty tricks"; odd, then, that he rewarded Willie's ones.

later12

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't want to hear another word out of MM or FF, ever.

Well you're not likely to have your way I'm afraid. He is the leader of the opposition, almost 1 in 5 people in the state gave their first preference to his party to lead Government - that amounts to almost 400,000 first preferences and not far off of Fine Gael's percentage share in 2002.

Just because you don't like it doesn't alter Fianna Fail's position on the opposition benches, nor indeed their duty as the opposition party.

Biggins

later10 wrote: »

...Just because you don't like it doesn't alter Fianna Fail's position on the opposition benches, nor indeed their duty as the opposition party.

Just a pity they really didn't do their duty as they should have done, while they were actually in government and done it honestly!

Petty point some might say but a still a valid, very true one!

Dammer

donal_cam wrote: »

They're effectively trying to put themselves on life support- this ban wouldn't affect them as much now given that they're donation repellent, while state funding will give them enough to rebuild the cumainn. Although the sight of MM trying to get people to vote for a proposal like this would probably result in a landslide against it.

+1000

Here lies FF's thinking

later12

Biggins wrote: »

Just a pity they really didn't do their duty as they should have done, while they were actually in government and done it honestly!

Petty point some might say but a still a valid, very true one!

Well as far as having made FF the oppositon party goes, the public have overlooked that obvious failure. And the ones who arguably pointed out most vociferously the failures of FF and who most consistently decried its expansionary policies are either on the back-back benches, or didn't get elected at all.

Biggins

later10 wrote: »

Well as far as having made FF the oppositon party goes, the public have overlooked that obvious failure. And the ones who arguably pointed out most vociferously the failures of FF and who most consistently decried its expansionary policies are either on the back-back benches, or didn't get elected at all.

...And some that continue occasionally to deny some accurate truths and/or are still tainted by the way, are still sitting very close to Michael Martin too.
Its seems some things still don't change.

later12

Biggins wrote: »

...And some that continue occasionally to deny some accurate truths and/or are still tainted by the way, are still sitting very close to Michael Martin too.

Yes, and were elected as such. The opposition have a mandate. Perhaps the Government would like to govern free of opposition, but despite FF's obviously shady history, that isn't likely to happen. As we have seen, a sheepish opposition serves no purpose, and we are paying in part for that lack of purpose today.

bamboozle

MM's a joker up in his ivory tower, what about the donations that he received from O'Callaghan that ended up mysteriously in his wifes bank account or the fact that his holiday home in west cork was built by Owen O'Callaghan.


MM should crawl back under the rock he came from.

Biggins

later10 wrote: »

Yes, and were elected as such. The opposition have a mandate. Perhaps the Government would like to govern free of opposition, but despite FF's obviously shady history, that isn't likely to happen. As we have seen, a sheepish opposition serves no purpose, and we are paying in part for that lack of purpose today.

I'm glad of decent opposition. However not all opposition is necessarily good opposition just because its able just to be there - and FF is certainly not quality opposition or ones to be doing any lecturing!

donal_cam

later10 wrote: »

Well you're not likely to have your way I'm afraid. He is the leader of the opposition, almost 1 in 5 people in the state gave their first preference to his party to lead Government - that amounts to almost 400,000 first preferences and not far off of Fine Gael's percentage share in 2002.

Just because you don't like it doesn't alter Fianna Fail's position on the opposition benches, nor indeed their duty as the opposition party.

FF aren't likely to be effective as an opposition party though because the government is continuing the same policies they implemented in regards to the financial system, public sector 'reform', employment, political 'reform' etc. An opposition actively opposes the governments policies, it doesn't pussyfoot around them or criticise them for doing the things that they did when in power like Lenihan did yesterday.

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

I'm glad of decent opposition. However not all opposition is necessarily good opposition just because its able just to be there - and FF is certainly not quality opposition or ones to be doing any lecturing!

I'll respectfully disagree but the fact that you and I disagree on this is irrelevant. The fact is that we live in a democracy and this democracy has selected FF to lead the opposition. If we are to learn from the past, and if we are to accept the democratic will of the people then we will allow and encourage them to provide opposition even if we don't believe they are capable of it . .

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I'll respectfully disagree but the fact that you and I disagree on this is irrelevant. The fact is that we live in a democracy and this democracy has selected FF to lead the opposition. If we are to learn from the past, and if we are to accept the democratic will of the people then we will allow and encourage them to provide opposition even if we don't believe they are capable of it . .

Fair comment.

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

Well you're not likely to have your way I'm afraid.

On the contrary, I'm getting very quick on the radio tuning buttons, I seldom hear anything past "and now, Fianna Fail spokesman ..." before I've changed channels.

StupidLikeAFox

Agent Smith wrote: »

Ban Donations from Trade unions to Political Parties

Gilmore confirmed this was going to happen in the current bill

"The Government has decided that political donations from corporate bodies will be brought to an end. That will, obviously, include the bringing to an end of donations from trade unions."
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/04/06/00003.asp

Seth Brundle

DJCR wrote: »

Though he didn't have much choice.

He managed to put unelected people (who weren't seeking election either) onto his front bench so he obviously had plenty of choice.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I'll respectfully disagree but the fact that you and I disagree on this is irrelevant. The fact is that we live in a democracy and this democracy has selected FF to lead the opposition. If we are to learn from the past, and if we are to accept the democratic will of the people then we will allow and encourage them to provide opposition even if we don't believe they are capable of it . .

Hmmm, if only FF paid as much regard for the democratic will of the people before the last general election! :rolleyes:

raymon

I propose a referendum that Michael Martin explain how " donations " from a developer ended up in his wife's bank account. What the hell ????

You are the wrong person to lead this charge Michael Martin