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Luas extension misses passenger target

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Not an epic fail. 25000 passengers considering they must traipse across mud and ****e to access the station is great. Considering that one station is not even open and is stranded in a blob of mud and ****e even less epic a fail.

    The project originally proceeded on the assumption that further high density development would occur and that P&R etc would follow as development contributions..then the housing market crashed.

    Unlike the Line C project that cost over €90m a mile this is not quite insanity :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    RPA says it's to do with lack of a P&R... I think it might be that half of it goes through nowhere.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 OurLadyofKnock


    Aard wrote: »
    RPA says it's to do with lack of a P&R... I think it might be that half of it goes through nowhere.

    Gas isn't it.

    "We do not have enough people using public transport due to the fact they can't get to it in their cars!"


    Epic_Facepalm_by_RJTH%5B1%5D.jpg

    There are days I feel like leaving this country for good and never coming back. Like tomorrow or may be even this afternoon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Not an epic fail.

    That there is still no P&R in place?

    Have to disagree with you there.

    Just not good enough.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    That there is still no P&R in place?

    Have to disagree with you there.

    Just not good enough.

    Getting 25k PAX despite the lack of a P&R and the mud and the crap environment around many of the stations proves the demand is there and that the 45k number was not crazy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Getting 25k PAX despite the lack of a P&R and the mud and the crap environment around many of the stations proves the demand is there and that the 45k number was not crazy.

    Indeed 25k is about 62.5% of the projected daily usage (45k). Of course this predicted usage was based around a considerably higher amount of development having taken place as well as a P&R. Given that most of this hasn't I think they are doing quite well. In the end of the day the infrastructure will be there for next couple generations.

    In my opinion an "Epic Fail" would have been daily ridership of circa 10k!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Indeed 25k is about 62.5% of the projected daily usage (45k). Of course this predicted usage was based around a considerably higher amount of development having taken place as well as a P&R. Given that most of this hasn't I think they are doing quite well. In the end of the day the infrastructure will be there for next couple generations.

    In my opinion an "Epic Fail" would have been daily ridership of circa 10k!

    I agree. But it is worth pointing out that our transport planning was consumed by the madness that was the Irish property market. It will be interesting to see if areas like Cherrywood are ever finished if some kind of recovery takes place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I agree. But it is worth pointing out that our transport planning was consumed by the madness that was the Irish property market. It will be interesting to see if areas like Cherrywood are ever finished if some kind of recovery takes place.

    Well I think often the problem in Ireland is the thinking is based purely on short-term vision. We have to remember that a piece of infrastructure like the LUAS is gonna be there for at least 75-100 years. So yeah perhaps over the next 10-15 years we won't see the 45k target reached, but the area will probably get developed within the next 25 years. Why do I think this? Well it has a number of attractive points namely:
    • Beside M50
    • Beside N11
    • LUAS already in place

    It's not like the area is a green field stuck in middle of a rural fastness. Ye alot more likely to get such a location developed then further bits of surbia grafted onto "one-horse towns" up and down Leinster.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    I have to agree with dubhthach and the same applies to Metro North and Dart Underground.

    People forget that the first London Underground tunnel was completed 150 years ago and it still carries hundreds of thousands of passengers everyday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,630 Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭ trad


    Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

    My 2c.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,834 ✭✭✭ markpb


    trad wrote: »
    Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

    My 2c.

    What about all the other stations on the line? Or the people who work near Cherrywood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    Granted it could be described as "forward planning", but I still think there are too many stations on it. The last two could easily have been one, as well as the Ballyogan Wood / Carrickmines setup. Such close stations are only warranted in tight urban areas, or at least if one station by itself would expect to be overflowing regularly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭ trad


    markpb wrote: »
    What about all the other stations on the line? Or the people who work near Cherrywood.

    If you live along the line and work for Dell or Pocket Kings it has to be a great benefit but they are the only large employers along the extension I know. There are still shuttle buses to the dart from Cherrywood run by some of the larger businesses out there.

    If there were shuttle buses for the public to and from Cherrywood more people might use it, oh wait, that would be integrated public transport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,803 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    trad wrote: »
    Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

    My 2c.

    Not quite true. Cherrywood serves the Tullyvale apartment complex (not exactly small), while Brides Glen serves the Business Park.

    A friend working in Cherrywood Business Park recently reported that an inbound service one evening recently had a standing load before Sandyford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    Here's a map of the approved "Carrickmines SDZ", basically the key transport infrastructure is already in place. As I said I don't see most of it been developed in next 10-15 years, but more then likely it will eventually be fully developed (20-25years time)
    http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/NationalSpatialStrategy/FileDownLoad,24589,en.pdf


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 OurLadyofKnock


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Here's a map of the approved "Carrickmines SDZ", basically the key transport infrastructure is already in place. As I said I don't see most of it been developed in next 10-15 years, but more then likely it will eventually be fully developed (20-25years time)
    http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/NationalSpatialStrategy/FileDownLoad,24589,en.pdf

    Even so - can't have empty trams running on the line for 20 years. That West-on-Track ism and only performs the function of being the perfect anti-rail specimen so beloved of our insane and uneducated journalists to point at.

    Something needs to happen soon. The P&Rs built at the very least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,834 ✭✭✭ markpb


    Even so - can't have empty trams running on the line for 20 years. That West-on-Track ism and only performs the function of being the perfect anti-rail specimen so beloved of our insane and uneducated journalists to point at.

    Something needs to happen soon. The P&Rs built at the very least.

    P&Rs are going through planning permission right now and the number of trams can be altered over time depending on demand. I'd imagine if the demand on the northern end of the extension is much busier than the southern end, RPA might decide to run more trams to Ballogan and less to Brides Glen or something like that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    markpb wrote: »
    P&Rs are going through planning permission right now
    Through!! eg 1 2(200 spaces, eeeyyeuw) 3


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    dynamick wrote: »

    Isn't that a stroke of good luck? :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    Plowman wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    There was no "insightful planning" here whatsoever! The extension was developer led and to be funded by developer levies. It's actually a Fail/Fail situation as the developers haven't delivered the housing to provide the passengers and it seems that the levies are also outstanding. This is exactly how you should NOT go about planning public transport.

    It shouldn't take 75-100 years for a tram line to achieve it's maximum passenger numbers. Light Rail is local transit and should be reaching its max numbers within a very short period of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭ IngazZagni


    As a side note, it's interesting to see that this is the exact opposite problem we're currently experiencing with the Luas Cherrywood extension than with all other public transport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    The solution, as such, is not to have transport as an afterthought, nor to build it first and to have residential as the follow-up. Rather it'd make sense to keep ways intact, and not to sell off land to make a quick buck. I'm thinking of the green way through Finglas that was built upon, or the old Harcourt route through Foxrock and Shankill. Or indeed, the complete lack of way through the whole Dublin 15 area. It's gonna be costly to provide a metro line through there (even if it is in 2040!); it'll all have to be underground.

    Building the Green line extention was done at the potential expense of other more deserving projects. Light rail isn't meant to serve especially far-out areas. As it is, often the 145 is quicker than the Luas. The tightly packed stations don't help either. IMO, if and when it becomes metro, it should be metro all the way from town to Sandyford, then a totally seperate light-rail line from Sandyford onwards. This setup can be seen in Shanghai and Beijing. The reason would be the pretty much impossible grade-seperation required down near the M50.


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