Luas extension misses passenger target

Zebra3

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nowhere-to-park-so-luas-extension-misses-targets-2615374.html

The mind boggles at the incompetence of it all. :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Not an epic fail. 25000 passengers considering they must traipse across mud and ****e to access the station is great. Considering that one station is not even open and is stranded in a blob of mud and ****e even less epic a fail.

The project originally proceeded on the assumption that further high density development would occur and that P&R etc would follow as development contributions..then the housing market crashed.

Unlike the Line C project that cost over €90m a mile this is not quite insanity

Aard

RPA says it's to do with lack of a P&R... I think it might be that half of it goes through nowhere.

OurLadyofKnock

Aard wrote: »

RPA says it's to do with lack of a P&R... I think it might be that half of it goes through nowhere.

Gas isn't it.

"We do not have enough people using public transport due to the fact they can't get to it in their cars!"




There are days I feel like leaving this country for good and never coming back. Like tomorrow or may be even this afternoon.

Zebra3

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not an epic fail.

That there is still no P&R in place?

Have to disagree with you there.

Just not good enough.

Sponge Bob

Zebra3 wrote: »

That there is still no P&R in place?

Have to disagree with you there.

Just not good enough.

Getting 25k PAX despite the lack of a P&R and the mud and the crap environment around many of the stations proves the demand is there and that the 45k number was not crazy.

dubhthach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Getting 25k PAX despite the lack of a P&R and the mud and the crap environment around many of the stations proves the demand is there and that the 45k number was not crazy.

Indeed 25k is about 62.5% of the projected daily usage (45k). Of course this predicted usage was based around a considerably higher amount of development having taken place as well as a P&R. Given that most of this hasn't I think they are doing quite well. In the end of the day the infrastructure will be there for next couple generations.

In my opinion an "Epic Fail" would have been daily ridership of circa 10k!

DWCommuter

dubhthach wrote: »

Indeed 25k is about 62.5% of the projected daily usage (45k). Of course this predicted usage was based around a considerably higher amount of development having taken place as well as a P&R. Given that most of this hasn't I think they are doing quite well. In the end of the day the infrastructure will be there for next couple generations.

In my opinion an "Epic Fail" would have been daily ridership of circa 10k!

I agree. But it is worth pointing out that our transport planning was consumed by the madness that was the Irish property market. It will be interesting to see if areas like Cherrywood are ever finished if some kind of recovery takes place.

dubhthach

DWCommuter wrote: »

I agree. But it is worth pointing out that our transport planning was consumed by the madness that was the Irish property market. It will be interesting to see if areas like Cherrywood are ever finished if some kind of recovery takes place.

Well I think often the problem in Ireland is the thinking is based purely on short-term vision. We have to remember that a piece of infrastructure like the LUAS is gonna be there for at least 75-100 years. So yeah perhaps over the next 10-15 years we won't see the 45k target reached, but the area will probably get developed within the next 25 years. Why do I think this? Well it has a number of attractive points namely:

• Beside M50
• Beside N11
• LUAS already in place

It's not like the area is a green field stuck in middle of a rural fastness. Ye alot more likely to get such a location developed then further bits of surbia grafted onto "one-horse towns" up and down Leinster.

bk

I have to agree with dubhthach and the same applies to Metro North and Dart Underground.

People forget that the first London Underground tunnel was completed 150 years ago and it still carries hundreds of thousands of passengers everyday.

Plowman

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trad

Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

My 2c.

markpb

trad wrote: »

Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

My 2c.

What about all the other stations on the line? Or the people who work near Cherrywood.

Aard

Granted it could be described as "forward planning", but I still think there are too many stations on it. The last two could easily have been one, as well as the Ballyogan Wood / Carrickmines setup. Such close stations are only warranted in tight urban areas, or at least if one station by itself would expect to be overflowing regularly.

trad

markpb wrote: »

What about all the other stations on the line? Or the people who work near Cherrywood.

If you live along the line and work for Dell or Pocket Kings it has to be a great benefit but they are the only large employers along the extension I know. There are still shuttle buses to the dart from Cherrywood run by some of the larger businesses out there.

If there were shuttle buses for the public to and from Cherrywood more people might use it, oh wait, that would be integrated public transport.

LXFlyer

trad wrote: »

Cherrywood is a ryanair station. It's near nowhere. The only way there is to drive or get a lift. If you are going to get a 145 to get you near the luas you might as well stay on it and go to town.

My 2c.

Not quite true. Cherrywood serves the Tullyvale apartment complex (not exactly small), while Brides Glen serves the Business Park.

A friend working in Cherrywood Business Park recently reported that an inbound service one evening recently had a standing load before Sandyford.

dubhthach

Here's a map of the approved "Carrickmines SDZ", basically the key transport infrastructure is already in place. As I said I don't see most of it been developed in next 10-15 years, but more then likely it will eventually be fully developed (20-25years time)
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/NationalSpatialStrategy/FileDownLoad,24589,en.pdf

OurLadyofKnock

dubhthach wrote: »

Here's a map of the approved "Carrickmines SDZ", basically the key transport infrastructure is already in place. As I said I don't see most of it been developed in next 10-15 years, but more then likely it will eventually be fully developed (20-25years time)
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/NationalSpatialStrategy/FileDownLoad,24589,en.pdf

Even so - can't have empty trams running on the line for 20 years. That West-on-Track ism and only performs the function of being the perfect anti-rail specimen so beloved of our insane and uneducated journalists to point at.

Something needs to happen soon. The P&Rs built at the very least.

markpb

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Even so - can't have empty trams running on the line for 20 years. That West-on-Track ism and only performs the function of being the perfect anti-rail specimen so beloved of our insane and uneducated journalists to point at.

Something needs to happen soon. The P&Rs built at the very least.

P&Rs are going through planning permission right now and the number of trams can be altered over time depending on demand. I'd imagine if the demand on the northern end of the extension is much busier than the southern end, RPA might decide to run more trams to Ballogan and less to Brides Glen or something like that.

Sponge Bob

markpb wrote: »

P&Rs are going through planning permission right now

Through!! eg 1 2(200 spaces, eeeyyeuw) 3

dynamick

There's a fourth one with permission on murphystown road
http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=D10A/0229&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=798915%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=829917%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=798915%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

(owned by a FF councillor)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0319/1224292611384.html

total spaces due: about 1,000 provides up to 10,000 extra trips per week.

Zebra3

dynamick wrote: »

(owned by a FF councillor)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0319/1224292611384.html

Isn't that a stroke of good luck? :rolleyes:

BrianD

Plowman wrote: »

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There was no "insightful planning" here whatsoever! The extension was developer led and to be funded by developer levies. It's actually a Fail/Fail situation as the developers haven't delivered the housing to provide the passengers and it seems that the levies are also outstanding. This is exactly how you should NOT go about planning public transport.

It shouldn't take 75-100 years for a tram line to achieve it's maximum passenger numbers. Light Rail is local transit and should be reaching its max numbers within a very short period of time.

IngazZagni

As a side note, it's interesting to see that this is the exact opposite problem we're currently experiencing with the Luas Cherrywood extension than with all other public transport.

Aard

The solution, as such, is not to have transport as an afterthought, nor to build it first and to have residential as the follow-up. Rather it'd make sense to keep ways intact, and not to sell off land to make a quick buck. I'm thinking of the green way through Finglas that was built upon, or the old Harcourt route through Foxrock and Shankill. Or indeed, the complete lack of way through the whole Dublin 15 area. It's gonna be costly to provide a metro line through there (even if it is in 2040!); it'll all have to be underground.

Building the Green line extention was done at the potential expense of other more deserving projects. Light rail isn't meant to serve especially far-out areas. As it is, often the 145 is quicker than the Luas. The tightly packed stations don't help either. IMO, if and when it becomes metro, it should be metro all the way from town to Sandyford, then a totally seperate light-rail line from Sandyford onwards. This setup can be seen in Shanghai and Beijing. The reason would be the pretty much impossible grade-seperation required down near the M50.