Another incident

cathy01

I heard that another young person was beaten up in a food outlet in Balbriggan.I'm wondering if there is any law or policy where the have to get security after a certain time.It seems mad to me that this is just allowed to happen.I hate it now when my 15 year old say she was getting a bag of chips.It turns the heart sideways in me.I know there is danger everywhere, but two young teens being attacked by another teen , just seems wrong that it happens and than nothing?

Eoineo

Morning Cathy,

It's a sad fact that this type of anti-social behaviour has escalated around here in the past year. At the last community policing forum meeting the Gardai stated that they had limited resources to deal with it and that at any time they would only have 1 Garda on foot patrol for the whole town unless there is a callout; in which case there are none.

The Youth Service are aware of many of the youths who are behaving like this. That means they have come to their attention by being referred by their school or another party such as a Social Worker or a Community Garda. They are doing their best with limited resources and they cannot force the youths to attend the service either. Also bear in mind that the youth service doesn't operate on the weekends which can be the times when the behaviour is at its worst.

Local volunteers run youth clubs on various nights through the week, there is a floodlit football league, plenty of clubs and organisations in the town to keep the youths occupied. So it comes down to a combination of a lack of parental responsibility and people not physically reporting when stuff happens.

I would urge everybody to report anti-social behaviour if and when it happens no matter what age the person is. Now I don't mean kids being kids, like kicking a ball around a green or making a rake of noise. What I do mean is damaging property, violence, intimidation etc. Gardai won't as a rule attend reports for a breach of the peace unless they're on a quiet day/evening.

To make a report to the local Gardai you need to call their number: (01) 841 2202 and say you would like to report anti social behaviour. State clearly your name, address and contact number and before the call finishes request the Garda's name & badge number. This is essential. Make a note of the time and day you made the call, what it was about and who the Garda you spoke to was in case you need to check it in the future.

If the anti-social behaviour occurs in a council estate by a council tenant you also have the option of reporting them to Estate Management in Fingal County Council: (01) 890 5000. You will need to give your name in confidence and the name and address of the person you're reporting. If you don't have their exact address you can give the name of the road and the full name of the person you're reporting.

As a community we need to take responsibility for reporting anti-social behaviour and giving everybody the message that we care about our area.

Bluetonic

Eoineo wrote: »

It's a sad fact that this type of anti-social behaviour has escalated around here in the past year.

I wouldn't class this as anti-social behaviour, it's common assault. There is a big difference.

Regarding the assaults, it's nothing new. In Balbriggan, least not all towns, there have been assaults over the last 30 years. The difference is now they are more reported as the methods of communication on offer to us are limitless.

bcmf

I am with Bluetonic on this. Its just now we get to hear about it from places like here and other sources.
It's a sad fact that its been going on a long time.

Eoineo

Perhaps I should clarify.

I have lived here for nearly 8 years. The past 2 years the problems have become more noticeable. In fact the Community Policing Forum was set up within the past 2 years for this very reason.

In my estate youths who carry out this sort of crime are treated by the Gardai under the Anti-Social Behaviour system and are not prosecuted.

Frank Spencer

I have seen the CCTV footage of the incident I believe Cathy is talking about and I must say I was shocked by the blatant disregard for other people's well being shown by the perpetrator. Unbelievably reckless behaviour.

I would like to believe that such incidents are isolated in the locality.

cathy01

Frank, this happened only last friday ngiht.Im aware from boards that a perhaps similer incident happened a few weeks ago.Which is why Im so concerned.The youth service in Balbriggan are second to none and they deserve a hell of a lot more funding than they get.Having something Saturday evening , would be great.I do hope someone reported it tot he Garda, I wasnt there myself but it reported back to me by an eye witness.Sad sad times.

Hauk

Not speaking in the context of this incident, but I can't be the only one that finds 'youths' a very degrading term? For example, it's only ever used to describe kids/teenagers when something bad happens.

Eoineo

Hauk wrote: »

Not speaking in the context of this incident, but I can't be the only one that finds 'youths' a very degrading term? For example, it's only ever used to describe kids/teenagers when something bad happens.

I'm not so sure about that. Kids to me is children who are under the age of 9 or so or referring to your own children. Tweenagers (even though I hate the term) is between 9-12 years of age. Teenagers 13 - 19 years of age. The term youth to me straddles the tweenage/teenage years especially if you can't define a persons age.

I can think of plenty of organisations who refer to youths in both their titles and literature, including the Balbriggan Youth Service, in a very positive way.

Hauk

I suppose yeah. It's probably because I'm always seeing the word used in a negative sense. Anyway, it was just a passing comment.

I remember when every other week someone was getting thrown through the window of the Pop In after Movita's (or whatever it was called) let out.

I've seen some mad stuff around the town of a night out but, to be honest, it's precisely the same as it was 10 years ago so far as I can see. More kids hanging around outside Spar and the NIB maybe but overall the town was always full of mouthy kids and always will be. Nothing new these days except the town is so big you can get away with it more because people can be more anonymous than they used to be.

Getting older and feeling more removed from the group behind you and feeling they are "worse" than your group were is natural. There are Roman accounts of people giving out about "the youth of today". It's always been this bad, these things come in peaks and troughs and the latest crop of arseholes is no different to the crop that came before my generation or the crop I grew up with.

LeoB

Bluetonic wrote: »

I wouldn't class this as anti-social behaviour, it's common assault. There is a big difference.

Regarding the assaults, it's nothing new. In Balbriggan, least not all towns, there have been assaults over the last 30 years. The difference is now they are more reported as the methods of communication on offer to us are limitless.

Agree with you here this is assualt. This is not new either there were always rows but they do appear more violent and vicious that years ago

bcmf wrote: »

I am with Bluetonic on this. Its just now we get to hear about it from places like here and other sources.
It's a sad fact that its been going on a long time.

Going on for an eternity and no signs of it stopping.

The thing that bothers me most is the viciousness of assults now as opposed to a good thumping match when someone got a bloody not or a few bruises.

I saw one row which frightened me not far my house where 1 lad got a right kicking. There were 4 or 5 against him and 2 mates. He just curled up in a ball and was literally kicked accross the street. There were a few girls screaming all sorts. Theses lads I believe went to school together but had a falling out. I met one of the girls the next day and asked if the lad was ok and her reply was "its sorted"

How do we go about dealing with this as a society. The Gardái have little power when it comes to prosecuting a case like this as people wont talk.
Is it time to give people some sort of anomity so they can provide a written statement to the judge or local Supt which would be kept private. A decent hefty fine or some serious community service might help. I would be reluctant to give a second chance to anyone taken up on an assult charge.

Duzzer

How come the Guards in Balbriggan let these "youths" hang around the shops and takeaways etc. I thought the public order laws allow them to disperse gangs over a certain size. All these gangs are all trying to look and talk like they are from Dublin Inner city, that gets me thinking are alot these "youths" the off spring of people from Dublin who have moved into Balbriggan over the last few years.

Beasty

Duzzer wrote: »

How come the Guards in Balbriggan let these "youths" hang around the shops and takeaways etc. I thought the public order laws allow them to disperse gangs over a certain size. All these gangs are all trying to look and talk like they are from Dublin Inner city, that gets me thinking are alot these "youths" the off spring of people from Dublin who have moved into Balbriggan over the last few years.

If you have a problem with particular groups report it to the Guards and let them deal with it rather than criticise the Guards here.

You seem to be trying to tar a number of people with the same brush (by reference to where their parents come from) - don't generalise in this way

Thanks

Beasty

bcmf

@Duzzer: Thats a mighty big brush full of tar you got there.

cathy01

Im a parent from Dublin, and my kids speak, like me .:D

I do think, yes Im getting older, but like LeoB said , I think the attacks are getting much more vicious.Years ago(in my day), it would be a punch up, thats it, back being friends.I believe this girl that was attacked was severly beaten.Why is it that you have a door man on a pub, but no type of security for the young people in the town, that want to get a bag of chips.?

10belowzero

Alcohol related assault's / injuries / illness's account for nearly 70% of all hospital A+E admission's in any given year.
It seem's to be some thing our nation seem's proud off , in a shame full sort of way , and totally unprepared to react too or even attempt to address .
I remember Judge Frank Martin (retired) , up in Sword's made some attempt to do some thing about this culture , when he heavily fined those brought before him( to cut down their porter money , as he called it) for drink related assault's etc , and sign on in the garda station @ 8 / 12 pm etc at night - sober- or six month's inside.
I remember one father complaining bitterly ,about how unfair it was on his son , Judge Martin ordered the father to sign on with his son to keep him company.
He also stated numerous time's , anybody coming before him charged with possession of a knife, should bring their toothbrush , as he would consider nothing less than jail time , for this offence.
If my memory serve's me right , his successor described these method's as old fashioned , and would have no place in his court .
This is not a local problem , but a national one , law and order ,was not even mentioned during the last election , zero tolerance - what a laugh - on last night's tv3 - Ireland caught on camera - a young man , beaten to an inch of his life , for a mobile phone - a man arrested - pleaded not guilty , went to judge and jury trial , where he was found guilty - his sentence - a 2 year suspended sentence.
Then you have the guy with over 200 criminal conviction's (including armed robbery) , having a chat with Pat Kenny on radio 1 and out walking around Dublin.
At the centre of this interview , is the way the legal system here , is geared to provide as much revenue and income , esp off the repeat offender's , as possible for the solictitor's /barrister's that service the free legal aid system.
The entire legal profession/king's inn, bar council , in this country need's to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the 18 th century and the cosy old boy's network , that is our legal system demolished - will the new government have the spine to do it - only people power/public opinion will decide that one I believe.
In the mean time a ban on supermarket's/garage's etc selling alcohol - coupled with imposed curfew's - the introduction of American style drink tank's/holding centre's staffed by the guard's/medical staff(these have been opposed by the civil liberties brigade , nothing about victim's right's) , more proactive use of cctv and garda on the ground , would go some way to reducing domestic assault's , the bloodstained / vomit covered footpath's /full A+E's and vandalism , that has become so much a part of our daily life.
Forgive me if I appear negative - I'm not - we have a great county and a fantastic country , (look at the support shown by our friend's/neighbours , here in NCD in the last week , for the missing men in Skerries (rip) ) , one could only feel pride , to live with and among such fine people in this great community .
I for one (will make a belated new year's resolution) to take time out , to attend our newly elected TD's clinic's and the time to write or email them ,at least once a month , in an effort to force some change or make some small difference.

ps -- sorry for the long post

Duzzer

Sure hasn't there always been a bit of rough stuff going on in Balbriggan.

LeoB

Fair poit cathy re doormen on pubs but kids cant get a bag of chips.

It seems we are now just accepting these attacks as normal and that is wrong. As was pointed out in a thread here about 18months ago ther is plenty for kids to do IF more parents would give up some time each week and have a rota to assist clubs and organisations who provide some great services. But you have the same parents doing a lot of the running around and organising and then you here its a "clicque". i LIKE YOU CATHY AND OTHERS HERE WEAR THAT T-SHIRT.

And again it aint just happening around N.C.D its all over the country.

Finally on morning Ireland this morning there is talk of huge cuts to Garda budget this year, from €21 million down to €11million (I can be corrected) and we have the huge expense of Queen coming here and Obama!! Will it mean less Gardái on the street? Perish the thought

The Hill Billy

FYI - The reduction in Garda Budget from €21m to €10m relate to Operation Anvil (organised crime). However, other Garda budgets may get hit with the expected high costs of policing & security that will be required for Obama's & Liz's visits.

10belowzero

10belowzero wrote: »

the way the legal system here , is geared to provide as much revenue and income , esp off the repeat offender's , as possible for the solictitor's /barrister's that service the free legal aid system.
The entire legal profession/king's inn, bar council , in this country need's to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the 18 th century and the cosy old boy's network , that is our legal system demolished - will the new government have the spine to do it - only people power/public opinion will decide that one I believe.
In the mean time a ban on supermarket's/garage's etc selling alcohol - coupled with imposed curfew's - the introduction of American style drink tank's/holding centre's staffed by the guard's/medical staff(these have been opposed by the civil liberties brigade , nothing about victim's right's) , more proactive use of cctv and garda on the ground , would go some way to reducing domestic assault's , the bloodstained / vomit covered footpath's /full A+E's and vandalism , that has become so much a part of our daily life.
Forgive me if I appear negative - I'm not - we have a great county and a fantastic country , (look at the support shown by our friend's/neighbours , here in NCD in the last week , for the missing men in Skerries (rip) ) , one could only feel pride , to live with and among such fine people in this great community .
I for one (will make a belated new year's resolution) to take time out , to attend our newly elected TD's clinic's and the time to write or email them ,at least once a month , in an effort to force some change or make some small difference.

ps -- sorry for the long post

First off let me declare my bias, I work in the legal area.

The two highlighted sections above are nonsense.

Firstly, legal aid work is set by statute and, for the work done, is actually very small money. The lawyers don't "bleed the legal aid system for all its worth" at all. If they did they'd find that it wasn't worth very much considering it has been scaled back year on year for half a decade.

Secondly, the "civil liberties brigade" as against "victims rights" is an emotive argument but misses the point. People always see the accused as someone else and also confuse accused with criminal. When it's you standing before a judge the situation is somewhat different. It's important to remember that civil liberties protect everyone and that sacrificing them for some media fuelled vendetta against "the criminals" only reduces your freedoms.

I assume we all agree that a person is innocent until proven guilty and that the circumstances of a crime should dictate the punishment? When you quote a man who got 2 years suspended sentence you are not giving all the facts. Not to question the integrity of TV3 but they are quite tabloid in their reporting style. Unless you know all the facts you cannot possibly know why that sentence was handed down yet you believe the narrative presented that justice is too soft in this country and you blame the system without doing any investigating yourself.

Your entire post echoes the constant media "crime, crime, crime" narrative that simply is not borne out by the facts. Things are just as bad now as they ever were. Nothing better, nothing worse. There are slight variations but over any significant sample size crime is pretty constant. If we correlate it with the increase in population size it's almost in perfect unison. More people does equal more crime but it doesn't equal a greater degree of crime. If 1 in a 100 people commit a crime then a society of 4 million will have less crime than a society of 6 million. Ireland's population change over the last 2 decades reflects this.

I do understand your frustrations but they are echoed by the legal profession I can assure you. Remember that legal professionals are on the prosecution side too and they are also tax paying citizens who can be, and are, the victims of crime on occasion. I myself have been the victim of muggings on 2 occasions, one of them involving an assault, but I wouldn't want the person who did it to facing anything other than a fair and just legal system which, in my humble opinion, is what we have.

Just as a separate point:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68536213&postcount=12

LeoB

Good post Kayroo. By the way I dont work in the legal profession

Cant say I agre with the first part of the post you highlighted by 10belowzero.

I listened to a debate on this and there are serious question to be asked of our legal system. The point made was I believe borne out by a programme on R.T.E a while back who had figures for what some solicitors and Barristers got and they were making very big money. If some solicitors get paid by the day and we have adjournments and case stretchs into a fe days are you telling me there is just aflat fee? No its a daily fee and depending on the amout of paper work involved the fee rises. I have heard some people in the legal profession say privatley the system could be overhauled to cut down on the crazy expences but they wont say it publicly, "cant rock the boat old chappie". If more of the judges actually enforced the law and were as cute as Justice Martin in dealing with type of thing maybe the people who cary out these crimes might think twice.

One thing for sure I hope we dont have a tribunal to sort it out.;)

The rest of your post I cant argue with for the most it makes sense but there are more serious assults taking place and it appears to me that we as a society seem to just accept them. Speak to nurses who every week end are dealing with incidents like we are discussing here.

If I were assualted or mugged like you I would want serious punishment to be give to the perpitrator, not just law. So many people have been destroyed by muggings and assults that they dont bother going out while the perpatritor is on his way to nail his next victim. Is that not what we say here " In courts you get laws not Justice", so if I have the money I can buy a better legal team and so get a slap on the wrist.

LeoB I don't want to make this thread about the legal profession. Needless to say I think your post reflects an attitude that belies a lack of understanding of what it is that lawyers actually do.

The tribunal lawyers represent the top 1% of the legal profession. If I was to judge any given profession on the top 1% of its earners I think it would give an extremely skewed view of the wages wouldn't you?

Say I took all professional footballers wages and assumed that the top 1% of earners was reflective of the wages as a whole. Do you think the lads playing for Bohemians would think that was fair when I called for a massive reduction in the pay for ALL footballers? Even players at League 1 level in England, how would they react?

10belowzero

I'm a Dub ,(worst kind) inner city , northside and north county , grew up and went to school in Ballymun and Finglas , before returning to the nth county , when I could stand on my own 2 feet , and have worked for long period's in the so called ''socially deprived area's'' .
I have seen , experienced first hand , the effect's of alcohol , drug's and crime on my own life ,and of those around me .
I have seen the coffin's and the tear's , that go with them , the lost live's and all the pain and heartache that come's with closing the lid of a coffin on a young person that should be out having fun.
I'm a trade unionist , a republican and socialist for good measure , so my kind at not exactly exalted by our so called '' free media'' , another profession that has let the public down badly over recent year's ( and some would say died , the day the Irish Press closed).
Don't get me wrong , there are excellent journalist's , as there are doctor's , solictitors etc , but the evidence of the last ten year's speak's for it'self , the nation has been very badly served by the profession's as a whole.
The legal system and profession need's widespread reform and regulation (self regulation is no regulation) as does the medical , dental , accountancy profession's etc.
Crime is a cycle , if a child grow's up in a ''home'' or environment where violence ,drink , drug's , robbery , fraud , prostitution etc are the norm , then the cycle is perpetuated , when that child grow's up and in turn replicate's , inflict's their experience of growing up , on their children , so the cycle continue's(that is human nature , although there are exception's to the rule).
It is this cycle that need's to be broken , proper child care service's,education , social /youth worker's , secure home's (not b+b's or day hostel's) , child psychologist's (extremely rare in Ireland) , proper resource's (not government lip service)in other word's to go in and get these children out and away ,from the people and surrounding's , that will in time doom them to a life of crime , poverty and misery - this is the cycle that need's to broken , in order to begin fixing a lot of what is wrong with our society - crime , drug's , sex abuse etc.
Due process / fair play / a jury of your peer's , civil right's etc are the bedrock of any civilized /educated society , and should be strongly protected and enhanced with due diligence and tempered by the knowledge of past mistake's,and the experience gained from it.
It is said , that justice need's to be done, but that is the problem here in a lot of case's, that justice is not being done , and not only is it not being done , but is not being seen to be done - THAT is the problem.
I'm sure there was some mitigating circumstance for that man who committed a vicious assault (maybe he did't get rice crispies , when he was a kid) - but a 2 yr suspended sentence for G.B.H is a joke , in any body's book , except for the victim's.
As for yer man on Pat Kenny with over 200 ''serious'' conviction's -- in his word's ''' I made me brief a bleeding millionaire - I've been up so many time's'' - WHAT does this guy have to do to get sentenced to a long spell inside where he can't commit or inflict any more harm on innocent people , commit genocide.
This is why people are so cynical of Irish justice , for banging people up for no tv licence or non payment of money too debt's/ bank's etc , quicker than your head could spin as they say .
Like it or not - the public perception is that the scale's of justice have tipped too far in favour of the convicted /professional/habitual criminal and now need to be tilted back in favour of the victim's , and the victim's right to justice.One change I would be in favour off , would be for the jury's in (murder / rape and other serious crime's) to be able to recommend or deliver a verdict of life - without any possibility of parole/early release (LIFE meaning ,till the day that they die),if they deem it to be fit.
Because ,it can take less than an hour to get a gun , the charge's for the rent of gun's has come down in recent year's due to demand and the cost of a hit even more / if you know the right people - the cost of a life in this state is cheap , too cheap , at least in the state's , in lieu of execution , LIFE MEAN'S LIFE ,at least the convicted get to live a life of sort's , which is more than their victim's , got a chance off.
I liked the link kayroo - as i'm fond of saying -- the more thing's change , the more they stay the same - mankind may have computer's and space station's - but basically mankind has't progressed much , to say the least, so much for the new enlightened time's that the new millennium was supposed to bring.History will only repeat itself , if people refuse too learn from it - I can promise you one thing - the Irish people have learned bloody hard the mistake's of the last ten year's - and as God is my witness , I'll tell anybody and our youth of the mistake's made in our name - in some sort of effort to make sure , another young life is not ruined or doomed to a life of misery or poverty or an early grave - THAT is our duty as citizen's and adult's.

10belowzero

10belowzero wrote: »

The legal system and profession need's widespread reform and regulation (self regulation is no regulation) as does the medical , dental , accountancy profession's etc.

Crime is a cycle , if a child grow's up in a ''home'' or environment where violence ,drink , drug's , robbery , fraud , prostitution etc are the norm , then the cycle is perpetuated , when that child grow's up and in turn replicate's , inflict's their experience of growing up , on their children , so the cycle continue's(that is human nature , although there are exception's to the rule).

These two things have nothing to do with one another. Reform of the legal profession is one issue and cycles of crime is another. They meet in the forum of the Court perhaps but reforming the legal profession won't solve the issues that cause crime which you very emotively overstate above.

Due process / fair play / a jury of your peer's , civil right's etc are the bedrock of any civilized /educated society , and should be strongly protected and enhanced with due diligence and tempered by the knowledge of past mistake's,and the experience gained from it.

This is all true and it has been tempered by 400 years of the Common Law. To be honest quite often it is knee jerk political reactions to current crises that cause legal problems rather than any judicial issues.

It is said , that justice need's to be done, but that is the problem here in a lot of case's, that justice is not being done , and not only is it not being done , but is not being seen to be done - THAT is the problem.

The maxim that justice must not just be done but must be seen to be done refers to holding Court matters in public and not administering justice in private. Almost all court matters are public (With very reasonable exceptions such as family law matters where the privacy of the parties is obviously a serious consideration) and if people took more of an interest in them rather than believing the parsed versions of court actions that are reported in the papers then perhaps it would be seen to be done more often. The District Court hears over 500,000 matters a year and yes, there are a handful of people who abuse the summary nature of the process and slip through the cracks but that is a legislative and prison problem as judges are unable to send these people to jail given the lack of prison spaces.

I'm sure there was some mitigating circumstance for that man who committed a vicious assault (maybe he did't get rice crispies , when he was a kid) - but a 2 yr suspended sentence for G.B.H is a joke , in any body's book , except for the victim's.

I don't know the facts of the case and neither do you. The glib comment about the rice crispies is in stark contrast to your earlier remarks regarding the terrible cycle of poor and disadvantaged homes that feed into a cycle of criminality. When they are children they are put upon but when they are adults they are scum? We should only try and rehabilitate and give second chances to those under the age of 18? I have no idea what happened in that case but I trust that the judge, having heard and weighed all the evidence and mitigating circumstances, made a fair ruling. We can argue about this all day but the only person who knows all the facts is the judge and we can either trust his ruling or we can jump on the anti-judicial bandwagon and pillory them.

As for yer man on Pat Kenny with over 200 ''serious'' conviction's -- in his word's ''' I made me brief a bleeding millionaire - I've been up so many time's'' - WHAT does this guy have to do to get sentenced to a long spell inside where he can't commit or inflict any more harm on innocent people , commit genocide.

2 issues here:

1. Relying on the word of a man who rings Pat Kenny and is proud of his convictions as part of an argument is a weak basis for that position.

2. The highlighted part is just plainly ridiculous. You have a touch of the melodramatic in your writing style bordering on the polemical but saying that someone who has committed 200 summary offences will somehow graduate to genocide is clearly insane. It makes your entire argument laughable.

This is why people are so cynical of Irish justice , for banging people up for no tv licence or non payment of money too debt's/ bank's etc , quicker than your head could spin as they say

Nobody has been put in jail for having no TV licence. Nobody. The penalty for that offence is a fine. If they fail to pay the fine that is contempt of Court and, many legal commentators argue, should be dealt with by garnishing their wages/welfare instead of having a committal to prison (which is so rare it's incredible). The same rarity holds true for bank debts leading to prison sentences.

Like it or not - the public perception is that the scale's of justice have tipped too far in favour of the convicted /professional/habitual criminal and now need to be tilted back in favour of the victim's , and the victim's right to justice.One change I would be in favour off , would be for the jury's in (murder / rape and other serious crime's) to be able to recommend or deliver a verdict of life - without any possibility of parole/early release (LIFE meaning ,till the day that they die),if they deem it to be fit.

While I generally disagree with this for all sorts of reasons there's no point going into them here as it would take 2,000+ words to do so in full. Needless to say that the jury is the arbiter of fact and the judge the arbiter of the law. Once the jury tell the judge exactly what happened (guilty or not) the judge then applies the relevant law and imposes the relevant sentence.

Because ,it can take less than an hour to get a gun , the charge's for the rent of gun's has come down in recent year's due to demand and the cost of a hit even more / if you know the right people - the cost of a life in this state is cheap , too cheap , at least in the state's , in lieu of execution , LIFE MEAN'S LIFE ,at least the convicted get to live a life of sort's , which is more than their victim's , got a chance off.

I cannot claim personal knowledge of how easy it is to order a "hit" or how the prices have come down for one. I sincerely hope and believe that you have no knowledge either and the above statement is reflective of a media espoused position which simply does not reflect the reality of the situation.

Regardless none of your post is particularly relevant to a couple of people having a fight in a town centre just as they have for the 3 decades I have lived in NCD.

Beasty

We are getting way off-topic here - please keep it to DCN specifics, rather than wider issues in our society (there are plenty of other forums to discuss these in)

Thanks

Beasty

Eoineo

Back on topic slightly.

If anybody would like to become involved in the Foroige Youth Service and/or a Foroige Youth Club maybe they might pm me for further details. There are a few die hard NCD boardsies who volunteer for the Balbriggan North Youth Club & new volunteers and members are always welcome.

All we can do is keep ploughing away at what we're doing and hope it can & will make a difference in the future.

cathy01

Just on a note about the foroiga, the Friends of Autism and ADHD sponser a saturday group for siblings of people with special needs.It was great that the Forogia agreed to do it.

Duzzer

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