stove & ufh

jdesbt

ive started a new build and some plummers tell me stoves cant be used with ufh and some say they can. is it possible and how,, maybe with geo,,

any advice apreciated

sanbrafyffe

oh you can if you want but i wouldnt use a stove to heat the underfloor heating,,,you wouldnt get the value out of it,,,,,work it off the oil boiler for best results,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the stove would never keep the heat going ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,use your stove to do the radiator circuit and hot water

sanbrafyffe

oh and geotermal works but i wouldnt use it here in ireland,,,,be different now if i lived in sweeden and them cold countries

Outkast_IRE

stove linked to a buffer tank would be the way to do it i would imagine then use a mixing valve to control the underfloor temp correctly.

heinbloed

There are many millions of boiler stoves supplying UFH or wall heating or both.

I'm not sure why this rumour is spread in Ireland.

Boiler stoves are available with a guaranteed 10 bar pressure safety. And propably more.

feckincrazy

Dont bother putting the stove to the underflooring heating. yad nearly want to own bordnamona to keep the heating going. If yer looking for an efficent form of heating dont bother with underfloor heating. yer heating a floor slab not a room. Normal double radiators are alot more efiecent as the produce heat into the rooms. Stoves are great heaters though but in order to get best use out of stove use it as a room heater and maybe to even heat water.

Outkast_IRE

feckincrazy wrote: »

Dont bother putting the stove to the underflooring heating. yad nearly want to own bordnamona to keep the heating going. If yer looking for an efficent form of heating dont bother with underfloor heating. yer heating a floor slab not a room. Normal double radiators are alot more efiecent as the produce heat into the rooms. Stoves are great heaters though but in order to get best use out of stove use it as a room heater and maybe to even heat water.

Theres so much to disagree with in your statement .
1. Plenty of people run underfloor and find it cost efficent .
The only people that dont are those that built massive houses with crap insualtion and poor quality windows.
2. It is an efficent form of heating as long as its installed correctly, along with correctly insulated floors and house.
3. Your correct in saying your heating a slab , theres no problem with that really as except for longer warm up and slower cool down times , which anybody whos worth their salt will tell you is fine as your no.1 aim with underfloor should be to create a constant comfortable ambient temp .

Carlow52

jdesbt wrote: »

ive started a new build and some plummers tell me stoves cant be used with ufh and some say they can. is it possible and how,, maybe with geo,,

any advice apreciated

if u have started the build is the heating design not done or are u making it up as u go along?
What is the current plan?

jdesbt

i should have made my first post clearer really,,

my original plan was geothermal and still might be, but its very very expencive with a long payback time.. so i thought of ufh with oil burner but in my kitchen/dining on my plans there is a stove so i thought it would be a waste if the stove wasnt heating the underfloor instead of just 1 room , (i would have some but not much free fuel for stove).


just to clarify the stove will be in addition to heatpump or oil burner...
and yes im makeing it up as i go along.. block work is nearly done and roofer nearly ready to start


thanks again for advice

Outkast_IRE

jdesbt wrote: »

i should have made my first post clearer really,,

my original plan was geothermal and still might be, but its very very expencive with a long payback time.. so i thought of ufh with oil burner but in my kitchen/dining on my plans there is a stove so i thought it would be a waste if the stove wasnt heating the underfloor instead of just 1 room , (i would have some but not much free fuel for stove).


just to clarify the stove will be in addition to heatpump or oil burner...
and yes im makeing it up as i go along.. block work is nearly done and roofer nearly ready to start


thanks again for advice

If you dont go for the geothermal would you consider spending some of the saved money towards a buffer tank and then you can link both stove and oil to this buffer tank , this way they will heat the buffer at maximum efficency so there is a long term cost saving there anyway?

sanbrafyffe

feckincrazy wrote: »

Dont bother putting the stove to the underflooring heating. yad nearly want to own bordnamona to keep the heating going. If yer looking for an efficent form of heating dont bother with underfloor heating. yer heating a floor slab not a room. Normal double radiators are alot more efiecent as the produce heat into the rooms. Stoves are great heaters though but in order to get best use out of stove use it as a room heater and maybe to even heat water.

i agree with you 100%....eh hold on i want the heat the house on saturday so that means i have to turn it on the underfloor heating thursday night for my best results lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get the hint it takes 24hours to heat up properly

hard to beat the rads,,,,catch the currents and drafts at the windows and doors and throw the heat around the roo

creedp

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

i agree with you 100%....eh hold on i want the heat the house on saturday so that means i have to turn it on the underfloor heating thursday night for my best results lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get the hint it takes 24hours to heat up properly

hard to beat the rads,,,,catch the currents and drafts at the windows and doors and throw the heat around the roo

That a good point but for many people they want the house warm 24/7 during ther heating season so they heat up the slab and try and kep it at a set temp right throughout the heating season. For these people fast response times are not the important issue. However, for people who don't want this and prefer to heat the house at different times, maybe because they are away a lot, then radiators are a better solution as once turned on will heat the house very quickly. Horses for courses but both will work well in given circumstances.

Outkast_IRE

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

i agree with you 100%....eh hold on i want the heat the house on saturday so that means i have to turn it on the underfloor heating thursday night for my best results lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get the hint it takes 24hours to heat up properly

hard to beat the rads,,,,catch the currents and drafts at the windows and doors and throw the heat around the roo

If it takes 24hrs to heat up properly you have laid the pipes either wrong or with too much of a slab above them . The last underfloor i finished last summer from its first start took about 4 hours for the slab to be good and warm to the touch .
Its a matter of preference really to me underfloor gives off a nicer type of heat , i find it much more comfortable. Others will prefer rads nothing wrong with that.

yop

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

If it takes 24hrs to heat up properly you have laid the pipes either wrong or with too much of a slab above them . The last underfloor i finished last summer from its first start took about 4 hours for the slab to be good and warm to the touch .
Its a matter of preference really to me underfloor gives off a nicer type of heat , i find it much more comfortable. Others will prefer rads nothing wrong with that.

Totally agree. If you know what your doing with UFH it will take up to 5 hours for the full floor slab to heat. If its taking 24hrs then the installation isn't done right and may not be pressurized.

It is personal choice at the end of the day but UFH gives a better head coverage.
What I have noticed that those who scream against UFH just don't have the experience to install it or are in fear of their niche of rads been taken off them.

Check it all out for yourself but get plenty of opinion on it.

I know some who are not happy with their GEO or their UFH. But what you will find that in a lot of those cases the installations were doing by plumbers who equated the ability to plumb as the same as installing a heatpump. There were never any heat requirement cals or pump sizing.

From my own point of view we got in a specialized geo company who I vetted with 5 of their installs and I got loads of experience on UFH off here and did the install myself.
We got plenty of "steam" from the plumber about doing it, in the end I left him to do what he was best at.

brencog

jdesbt wrote: »

i should have made my first post clearer really,,

my original plan was geothermal and still might be, but its very very expencive with a long payback time.. so i thought of ufh with oil burner but in my kitchen/dining on my plans there is a stove so i thought it would be a waste if the stove wasnt heating the underfloor instead of just 1 room , (i would have some but not much free fuel for stove).


just to clarify the stove will be in addition to heatpump or oil burner...
and yes im makeing it up as i go along.. block work is nearly done and roofer nearly ready to start


thanks again for advice

Hi jdesbt...I'm planning on starting a new built shortly in the NW. I've carried out a lot of research into various methods of space heating, and there are quite a few different methods to choose from...One of the most efficient ways, and possibly most cost effective, is comprised of linking two or more different types of water heating... 1/ solar water heating panels... 2/ high efficiency multi-fuel boiler stove... 3/ geothermal heat pump... all these methods assume a high degree of insulation, which is of the utmost importance... then, to take the fullest advantage of all this relatively free (or very low cost ) hot water, you should install the highest efficiency buffer/thermal store tank, and, when all the pipework is installed and verified, you insulate every inch of them...any exposed pipework is losing heat at a rate of knots you wouldn't believe...a little bit of overkill will do no harm at all as far as insulation is concerned...one further addition to seriously consider is a heat exchange/recovery unit, and when that's up and running, insulate the thing to within an inch of it's life...finally you then go back and enclose your buffer/thermal store tank, and insulate that as well...if you think there is too much emphasis on insulation...WRONG...insulate...insulate...insulate, and it will pay back massive savings.

brencog

brencog wrote: »

Hi jdesbt...I'm planning on starting a new built shortly in the NW. I've carried out a lot of research into various methods of space heating, and there are quite a few different methods to choose from...One of the most efficient ways, and possibly most cost effective, is comprised of linking two or more different types of water heating... 1/ solar water heating panels... 2/ high efficiency multi-fuel boiler stove... 3/ geothermal heat pump... all these methods assume a high degree of insulation, which is of the utmost importance... then, to take the fullest advantage of all this relatively free (or very low cost ) hot water, you should install the highest efficiency buffer/thermal store tank, and, when all the pipework is installed and verified, you insulate every inch of them...any exposed pipework is losing heat at a rate of knots you wouldn't believe...a little bit of overkill will do no harm at all as far as insulation is concerned...one further addition to seriously consider is a heat exchange/recovery unit, and when that's up and running, insulate the thing to within an inch of it's life...finally you then go back and enclose your buffer/thermal store tank, and insulate that as well...if you think there is too much emphasis on insulation...WRONG...insulate...insulate...insulate, and it will pay back massive savings.

Hi again jdesbt, I should have added that UFH is probably one the most efficient forms of space heating as well...if it's installed correctly, you will end up with an ideal heating solution...ie; warm feet; cool head...and once you arrive at a comfortable setting for your different zones, it will just keep ticking over as long as there is a supply of water at about 45 to 55 degrees...luvly jubbly.

AMG86

Insulate, insulate…. is the correct way to go but make sure it is done correctly with no gaps. This will also help to make the house airtight. You should look at this to ensure that opes are sealed properly etc. Now you will have to consider ventilation.

Insulation, sealing (air tightness) and ventilation have to be taken altogether.

brencog

AMG86 is absolutely correct in mentioning ventilation...of course I managed to NOT mention it in my haste to harp on about insulation et al...speaking of which...insulate all the ducting as well...in fact any pipe; duct; or airway that is transmitting warm air or water should be insulated like there's no tomorrow...all things being considered jdesbt...if your new build is built within all the recommended guidelines for an "eco" house, or even eco friendly house, you're well on the way to saving a fortune on energy costs...don't forget to consider your lighting as well...modern LED units are a little on the expensive side, but they last forever(almost)and will pay back all that they cost and more in "leccy" bills...so much so that we are planning to light the soffits on our new build...and the wattage of each LED G10 unit can be from 1.5watts to 3 watts...as the saying goes; do the math...oh, and go for the warm white variety...the cool ones are VERY cool..horrible even...