Is anybody else thinking: sod the magners?

durkadurka

With a lot of leinster's backline fairly beat up after yesterday, a huge opportunity to win the HEC ahead of us, and the prospect of an away semi to munster the week before a possible heineken final, I think we should be resting anyone who wants a rest for next week and keep the big boys at home from aironi to prepare for the semi.

If we get through to the magners semi , that's great, but the overarching priority should be the HEC now.

Munsters name is on the magners.

Paulw

Not sure I agree with you there.

Leinster have a fairly big squad. Not many games left in the Magners, and they still have a great chance to get to the semi-finals, and probably a final.

There is still no real reason why Leinster can't win both Magners League and Heineken Cup.

durkadurka

I don't think we have the depth to do it.

gcgirl

With Leinsters squad i can't see why not. Take yesterdays match was minus ferg mcfad, dom ryan, the 2 kearneys, ruddock, do i need to go on munster v leinster for the final irish rugby at its best.

durkadurka

I agree with that, use the squad, keep the big players fresh for the HEC .

danthefan

Leinster definitely should be targetting the HEC, that's obvious. I'd probably rest 6 or 7 players against Ulster.

CatFromHue

darcy and bod took a hammering yesterday but we have o malley and mcfadden to cover for them.

morris and dave kearney can cover for full back / centre

madigan has shown promise at 10

our back row was immense yesterday but we have dom ryan and ruddock and possibly keogh if he isnt injured to cover there.

realistically next weekend is our biggest game left in the league stage in the magners where we play a team in the top half.

ulster play today and then have to play us again on friday night so who knows what condition they're in. also they have a poor record against us in dublin.

its aironi away the weekend before the semi. the fellas who will be given a rest after yesterdays game will need to play there so as to keep their match fitness.

the glasgow game is the week after the semi who knows what the league will look like then.

phog

Not trying to be confrontational but how can this question even be considered, especially when I think of the hammering that Munster used to get here for not taking the Celtic league seriously at a time when our squad wasn't a half of what Leinster have now.

Imagine, being knocked out of the ML because it was given the committment and then lose a S/F or Final in the H/C no one would forgive the team or management.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Not trying to be confrontational but how can this question even be considered, especially when I think of the hammering that Munster used to get here for not taking the Celtic league seriously at a time when our squad wasn't a half of what Leinster have now.

Imagine, being knocked out of the ML because it was given the committment and then lose a S/F or Final in the H/C no one would forgive the team or management.

I would. We have to give ourselves the best chance of winning the HEC.

CouchSmart

Sod the Magners? Why even bother taking part with that attitude. We're in with a chance of doing the double, HEC is the priority but the Magners isn't far off. I want both but realistically don't think we have the depth yet. We do have depth to finish second though, plenty of good players to start against Ulster next weekend and as has been Schmidt's way through the whole season there'll be plenty of rotation. I do think we need to get the cotton wool out for Strauss, Sexton and Nacewa, however.

durkadurka

The magners is miles off the HEC. I say we play a half strength team against ulster. The fact is we've been playing catch up in the magners since September. I have a season ticket for Leinster but I dont mind one bit if we take our eye off magners in favour of a golden opportunity to win the HEC.

I don't think the Leinster management will be thinking that way. A win over Ulster at home is followed by a trip to Aironi and a home game against Glasgow so Leinster should be able to make the semis anyway, possibly even a home semi.

Anyway the only positions where Leinster don't have quality backup is at Hooker and in the 2nd row so their squad should be good enough to get them through to the semis.

CouchSmart

durkadurka wrote: »

The magners is miles off the HEC.

It's up to the fans to make the Magners a great league. I think it is already but I remain in the minority. French and English teams love their domestics competitions, perhaps even prefer it to the HEC, and thats what I want for the Magners. Leinster, 2010/11 Magners League and Heineken Cup Champions has a nice ring to it .

ambid

durkadurka wrote: »

With a lot of leinster's backline fairly beat up after yesterday, a huge opportunity to win the HEC ahead of us, and the prospect of an away semi to munster the week before a possible heineken final, I think we should be resting anyone who wants a rest for next week and keep the big boys at home from aironi to prepare for the semi.

If we get through to the magners semi , that's great, but the overarching priority should be the HEC now.

Munsters name is on the magners.

Well, there's you, Neil Francis ("Leinster will have to forget about the Magners League"), and Ross O'Carroll Kelly ("Last time I ever mix my drinks. From now on, I shall be sticking with the Heineken - and fock the Magners"). Great minds! (kidding!)

I really hope we can do the double. Next week we can rotate quite heavily, maybe even half the team, and still hope to beat Ulster at home. I expect next weekend we'll see Van Der Merwe, Wright, Jennings, Ruddock/ Ryan, Boss, McFadden, and O'Malley. If we win our last three ML matches, and Munster beat Ospreys in the Liberty, then we should get a home ML semi. I reckon that would keep Mick Dawson happy for a while

You're right though that there are a couple of gaps in the backup squad, most notably at hooker and fly half.

Still I hope we have enough for a double. I love the Magners and want us to win it!

phog

danthefan wrote: »

I would. We have to give ourselves the best chance of winning the HEC.

Sponsors want winners - do you think Bank Of Ireland, Newstalk, etc would have the same attitude.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Sponsors want winners - do you think Bank Of Ireland, Newstalk, etc would have the same attitude.

And hopefully they'll get one. Anyway why would I give a toss about what BoI or Newstalk think? I am a supporter, not the Leinster CFO.

durkadurka

phog wrote: »

Sponsors want winners - do you think Bank Of Ireland, Newstalk, etc would have the same attitude.

Theyll be happy enough if we win the HEC

CatFromHue

munsters.....ulster.........ospreys.......scarlets......leinster...........blues
scarlets a....leinster a....dragons a.....munster h....ulster h.........connacht a
ospreys a....connacht h..munster h....glasgow a....aironi a..........treviso h
connacht h..dragons a....aironi a........blues h........glasgow h.....dragons a
.........................................................................................scarlets a

munster 71
ulster 59
ospreys 57
leinster 56
blues 52
scarlets 51


the games next weekend will have a big impact on how the league will end up.

if we beat ulster next weekend, which we should, that will put us in a great position. we should be aiming and are well capable of winning our last 3 games even with rotating the squad.

the problem i see is that ospreys have nothing else to play for and so are well capable of winnig their last 3 games. the dragons and munster games will be tough though. if they drop any points i can see us getting second and playing them at home in the semi.

Dr.Evil

1. Van Der Merwe
2. Harris Wright
3. Wright
4. Toner
5. O'Donoghue
6. Ryan
7. Jennings
8. Ruddock
9. Boss
10. Madigan
11. Conway
12. McFadden
13. O'Malley
14. Kearney
15. Morris

None of that team started yesterday. So there is a squad there.

Conas

Dr.Evil wrote: »

1. Van Der Merwe
2. Harris Wright
3. Wright
4. Toner
5. O'Donoghue
6. Ryan
7. Jennings
8. Ruddock
9. Boss
10. Madigan
11. Conway
12. McFadden
13. O'Malley
14. Kearney
15. Morris

None of that team started yesterday. So there is a squad there.

I don't agree with this team at all. People seem to want players rested after every game, and that's the reason why some of our big players aren't playing to their maxium potential. They're getting so many games off and not playing enough rugby. Field the best team we can next week, and against Aironi field a weakened team. Next week is a vital match.

durkadurka

Ulster will be knackered after huge away game Today in fairness.

Taco Corp

durkadurka wrote: »

Ulster will be knackered after huge away game Today in fairness.

As are Leinster. There will be a lot of changes to the starting XV's for both side next week.

I don't see us fielding a savagely weakened team. They may well be inexperienced, but such has been the breakthroughs this season that a lot of players on the Leinster second string would be getting gametime ahead of their opposite numbers if they were playing for the other team.

We've strength in depth, we'll use that strength to navigate both tournaments.

JustinDee

durkadurka wrote: »

With a lot of leinster's backline fairly beat up after yesterday, a huge opportunity to win the HEC ahead of us, and the prospect of an away semi to munster the week before a possible heineken final, I think we should be resting anyone who wants a rest for next week and keep the big boys at home from aironi to prepare for the semi.

If we get through to the magners semi , that's great, but the overarching priority should be the HEC now.

Munsters name is on the magners.

Joe Schmidt certainly isn't thinking like that. See the interview post-match last week? He was extremely peeved.
If you're a competitor, you want to win everything you are in the running to win.

phog

durkadurka wrote: »

Theyll be happy enough if we win the HEC

but my original comment was would Leinster be thanked for ignoring the ML at the expense of the H/C and then to LOSE OUT in the S/F or Final, and Dan said he would. In that scenario they'd be no win

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Anyway why would I give a toss about what BoI or Newstalk think? I am a supporter, not the Leinster CFO.

Yeah, you're contribution to Leinster rugby probably more than matches what the sponsors provide to them :rolleyes:

durkadurka

phog wrote: »

but my original comment was would Leinster be thanked for ignoring the ML at the expense of the H/C and then to LOSE OUT in the S/F or Final, and Dan said he would. In that scenario they'd be no win

True but point is we have a huge chance to win it and nothing should get in the way of giving us every advantage to win it

im invisible

CouchSmart wrote: »

Magners and Heineken has a nice ring to it .

Snakebite, isnt it?

Dr.Evil

Conas wrote: »

I don't agree with this team at all. People seem to want players rested after every game, and that's the reason why some of our big players aren't playing to their maxium potential. They're getting so many games off and not playing enough rugby. Field the best team we can next week, and against Aironi field a weakened team. Next week is a vital match.

I agree, I don't mean play that team, but it does go to show that there is strength in depth. There's at least one player ready to come in at any position. Granted the quality isn't the same in all of them, but there is a strong squad. A strong enough one that Leinster should still be able to challenge in the Magners.

We need the Magners for players like Fitzgerald to regain form, or McLaughlin and Jennings who need game time, or Heaslip who I still think hasn't hit his form again yet either.

Sod the Magners at your peril. :P

brianthebard

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Sod the Magners at your peril. :P

Aye, that sort of attitude can leave a team for nothing to show for themselves at the end of a season.

TheRevolution

I wouldn't say 'sod' the magners but at the same time if we had Munster in the semis of the ML 6 days before the final of the HC then I'd definitely wouldn't want our first string out there.

CatFromHue

there is an argument that crops up or at least you used to crop up when irish teams, usually munster it has to be said, used to come up against french or english teams in the semi or final of the heineken cup.

the french and english teams used to come in off the back of hard domestic games whereas munster used to in some cases have to organise friendlies to get a match.

i would be in the camp that hard games are benefical going into semi or finals games.

this is what we play sport for, the knock out games in may. againts aironi away and glasgow at hoom there is room for rotation.

a semi in the magners is not to be taken lightly and so a full strength team should, if we get there, be out playing.

thats why the double is so highly rated, its bloody hard to do. as far as i know its never been done in the history of the magners so being the first team to do it would be.....nice!

obviously there is alot of rugby to be played but if we dont play our best to win both competitions we may win neither and that would be a shame

Digifriendly

CatFromHue wrote: »

realistically next weekend is our biggest game left in the league stage in the magners where we play a team in the top half.

ulster play today and then have to play us again on friday night so who knows what condition they're in. also they have a poor record against us in dublin.

It's Saturday night not Friday so extra day for Ulster to recover.

Podge_irl

Considering we have Ulster (h), Aironi (a) and glasgow(h) to go, I would be quite disappointed if Leinster didn't win all 3 while still giving some players a rest and using their full squad.

CouchSmart

Podge_irl wrote: »

Considering we have Ulster (h), Aironi (h) and glasgow(h) to go, I would be quite disappointed if Leinster didn't win all 3 while still giving some players a rest and using their full squad.

Aironi away. Can't see us sending a strong team there with the semi the following week..

Podge_irl

CouchSmart wrote: »

Aironi away. Can't see us sending a strong team there with the semi the following week..

Whoops, that's what I meant.

Can't see us sending a full strength team, but we should still be sending one capable of winning.

Several players, such as Fitz, are not going to benefit at all from not playing.

PhatPiggins

Bar 2 and 10 Leinster have such depth in their squad their second string will beat most teams anyway but having said that I wouldn't risk any player with even the slightest in the ML. On top of that I'd rest the players that Leinster can't live without as much as possible i.e BOD, Heaslip and/or SOB,Sexton and Nacewa.

We can all say nice things about wanting to win everything but the HC is everything and as long as an Irish team wins the other 2 comps who cares.

Digifriendly

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Bar 2 and 10 Leinster have such depth in their squad their second string will beat most teams anyway but having said that I wouldn't risk any player with even the slightest in the ML. On top of that I'd rest the players that Leinster can't live without as much as possible i.e BOD, Heaslip and/or SOB,Sexton and Nacewa.

We can all say nice things about wanting to win everything but the HC is everything and as long as an Irish team wins the other 2 comps who cares.

Not denying your claim for one moment but just wondering if statistics back it up this season?

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Yeah, you're contribution to Leinster rugby probably more than matches what the sponsors provide to them :rolleyes:

Now what are you on about? Have I claimed to contribute more than sponsors?

TheRevolution

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Bar 2 and 10 Leinster have such depth in their squad their second string will beat most teams anyway but having said that I wouldn't risk any player with even the slightest in the ML.

1.VDM
2.Harris-Wright
3.Wright
4.Toner
5.Sheriff
6.McLaughlin
7.Ryan
8.Ruddock
9.Boss
10.Madigan
11.D.Kearney
12.McFadden
13.O'Malley
14.Andrew Conway
15.Niall Morris

thats Leinster's second string and theres no way it would beat most sides.

Mark A

I'd hate to see Leinster sacrificing one competition for the sake of heineken cup.

Putting out an entire second string team in Magners just won't happen. It will be a case of balanced selections with different key players being rested each week. Leinster definitely have the squad to win their matches this way, and if we get a home semi, (which wont be against munster if we do) then we have every chance of a Magners league win, without having to knacker all our frontliners for the HCup.

PhatPiggins

TheRevolution wrote: »

1.VDM
2.Harris-Wright
3.Wright
4.Toner
5.Sheriff
6.McLaughlin
7.Ryan
8.Ruddock
9.Boss
10.Madigan
11.D.Kearney
12.McFadden
13.O'Malley
14.Andrew Conway
15.Niall Morris

thats Leinster's second string and theres no way it would beat most sides.

Fair enough maybe not their second team in the extreme sense but that team they were putting out during the 6N's was useful enough and missing a glut of first choicers

durkadurka

In fairness shaggy will play he needs games. Nacewa didn't play 6n, Cullen hasn't played that much lately, I guess fitz will stay on the wing. Mcloufin isn't overplayed

Sexton bod and darcy prob need a rest, as do sob, heaslip, Ross healy .

smurphy29

phog wrote: »

Sponsors want winners - do you think Bank Of Ireland, Newstalk, etc would have the same attitude.

Won't someone please, please think of the corporate sponsors?

In all honesty I think Leinster will want to keep the majority of their frontliners playing together to try to get back the fluidity they were playing with earlier in the season. Barring injury and maybe the likes of Wright, vd Merwe and McFadden starting, as well as Jennings getting some much needed match time, I'd expect most of the team that played on saturday to start against Ulster.

CIARAN_BOYLE

smurphy29 wrote: »

Won't someone please, please think of the corporate sponsors?

In all honesty I think Leinster will want to keep the majority of their frontliners playing together to try to get back the fluidity they were playing with earlier in the season. Barring injury and maybe the likes of Wright, vd Merwe and McFadden starting, as well as Jennings getting some much needed match time, I'd expect most of the team that played on saturday to start against Ulster.

Quite possible and that is a valid way of doing things, include Boss with VDM, Wright and McFadden

[Jackass]

I think it's stupid to ignore the league, and I don't think Schmid will.

It's always mentioned that the Munster / Leinster games the week before Heineken Cup action is the perfect preperation, and I think that's true.

If we end up in an away semi in the league the week before a Heineken Cup final (IF we make it), I'd play a full strength Leinster side.

In the mean time, I'd use some rotation to keep the players fresh just like Schmidt has been doing all season.

We're chasing a double here, and we should be playing smart, but giving our best effort to win both competitions.

For Ulster I'd play:

1. Van Der Merwe
2. Strauss
3. Wright
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. McLaughlin
7. Jennings
8. Ruddock

9. Boss
10. McKinley
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. McFadden
14. Horgan
15. Nacewa

16. Harris-Wright 17. McGrath 18. Maguire 19. O'Donoghue 20. Ryan 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Conway

Risteard

I think that Leinster in a good position in both competitions and have the squad to compete due to the play off system. Completely ignoring the ML and focusing solely on the HC could do more harm than good. Roatation is the best policy, mixing and matching front liners with others in the squad to keep them rested and still match sharp.

The play offs would stand well to Leinster before a possible final, as I think that the Munster match did for he QF. Priority will obviously be on the HC and it should be but that doesn't necessarily mean forfeiting the ML.