TvT

Orizio

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hat...

And no, I have nothing constructive to say. I only have despair and sorrow.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

tvt is the best of all possible matchups

it's just brilliant

Orizio

Its a bit like those programmes one sees on Challenge, where contestants go through ridiculous and painful challenges again and again for little reward. Fantastic to watch, horrific to participate in.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you're clearly just doing it wrong

Funky

change to protoss and endure the ultimate joy of pvp

seraphimvc

tvt is all about tanks+marines i suppose. but pvp is the worst. ohboy. pvp: coLOLsus or 4GATEOMFGNOOB.

should give zvz a try :pac: my silver days zvz involved 400apm every fcking game. banes are so much fun!!!!

IRL_Sinister

I approve of the OP.

pixelburp

ZvZ is a horrendous matchup; it just turns into a race to whoever spams X unit first. Ironically I don't get too much 'toss cheese anymore, but Zerg are all about it ...

Orizio

PvP and ZvZ tend to be short - the average TvT goes on for two or so months, if you are lucky.

phisku

i actualy enjoy TvT nowadays because i don't have bane/storm/colo to dodge

The_Keeper

TvT is probably my best matchup at the moment, although if you don't deal damage early you better settle in for the long haul.

Open up cloaked banshee into tank marine viking, safest way to play imo.

Orizio

The_Keeper wrote: »

Open up cloaked banshee into tank marine viking, safest way to play imo.

I've never heard of this build before, tell me more.

phisku

of course as i say that i actualy enjoy TvT i played 6 tvt in a row on the ladder and i changed my mind i hate it

VikingErik

Did you see the Day9 episode where he talks about the Banshee + Hellion TvT strategy?

Hellions roast all Bio while Banshees deal with mech. And seeing as you'll have multiple starports if the opponent switches to Vikings, then you just pump out more to counter. It's a very mobile build that reliant on harassing all the time.

See Day9's episode here http://blip.tv/file/4745995

I don't play Terran so I don't know how tough it is to actually pull off, but give it a go.

Personally I hate playing Terran as a Protoss. Medivac drops kill me every time.

NeoSlicerZ

iEchoic's build is beyond gimmicky.

Orizio

VikingErik wrote: »

Did you see the Day9 episode where he talks about the Banshee + Hellion TvT strategy?

Yes. I saw the build on TL months ago. Very difficult for a noob like me to pull off.

IRL_Sinister

iEchoic lol. What a joke build. Standard 1-1-1 comes in vs your 3 helions lolololololol

phisku

The Echoic build is "ok" but if it was really THE best build everybody would use it.
i personally don't like it.

Tenger

phisku wrote: »

The Echoic build is "ok" but if it was really THE best build everybody would use it.
i personally don't like it.

Well it works for him. I watched the day9 video which featured iEchoic expalining his build. He made the point that it is a very fragile build that needs the timings to be precise. As the guy who developed it he would have a great sense of when to switch or alter it whereas someone merely following the food count wouldn't have that and will probably die to 1-1-1. And the build is a very mobile micro heavy one so may not suit someone else style of play.

VikingErik

I realise there is a lot of effort that goes into learning builds, and I'm such a inexperienced player that I've not bothered to learn a single "established" build. I'm in bronze league and quite happy to just freestyle my way through games, hoping that I'll get a feel for the general builds that I'm aware of.

If I did play Terran though, I'd definitely try to learn that build because it's got such an unusual composition. MMM is so solid and straight forward (from what I've gathered) that it's really refreshing to see new Terran builds. Still waiting for someone to come up with a BC focused build :P

Orizio

Such is my loathing of TvT that I'm going to give Protoss a serious go.

Orizio

Is TLO's 6 rax all-in viable in TvT?

IRL_Sinister

Yes...... if it's not scouted (:

DapperGent

My TvT is 6+ rax all in everytime at the moment. It's especially powerful if they're stupid enough to wall in. Playing standard TvP and TvZ but I just cba with the tank/viking/marine sigh face of TvT.

Orizio

Everyone in my league just scans around the five minute mark. Does this make it basically worthless? Hard to hide 6 rax tbf.

And is it possible to transition into bio play if it is scanned?

IRL_Sinister

proxy proxy proxy proxy (:

Orizio

You try to corrupt me sir - I am no Protoss cur, bereft of honour and breeding.

Orizio

DapperGent wrote: »

My TvT is 6+ rax all in everytime at the moment. It's especially powerful if they're stupid enough to wall in. Playing standard TvP and TvZ but I just cba with the tank/viking/marine sigh face of TvT.

When do I (a) cut SCVs and (b) when should I attack roughly if I do the build optimally? 5:30 or so?

DapperGent

Hey sorry I think better players than me would have a tighter build but I cut SCVs after the 4th,5th and 6th barracks complete and attack after one production round from those last three.