Multimedia degree is almost completely useless (Oppinion).

Enda_of_Eire

Hi everyone.

A very interesting debate on the general multimedia student started on a thread about whether a web designer or a web developer was needed.

Basically I tried to make the point that the Computer Science student is actually more able now and in the future to do the Multimedia students main money making job - web design, and many disagreed.

I'd be interested in any oppinions people have, this will no doubt be a very unpopular topic in this forum but interesting either way .

Below is one of the quotes and my response on the thread in question:

Deliverance wrote: »

ok, but who decided on the graphic, who decided on how it appeared, who was the hand model, who decided on the white space and who came up with the simple idea of showing it in the ltd space in such a way that the user will 'just get it'.

Sorry but that's very small minded thinking and I shall explain why.

First of all you do realise Computer Science students in most colleges and institutes of technologies cover
whitespace theory etc along with Photoshop/ HTML/ CSS/ Javascript during their web authoring modules.
They have a perfectly good foundation to add to here, these are soft skills to add to.
Photoshop is easy and fun, website design theory could be written on a few pages.

Ok well thats out of the way.

Do you honestly think websites will be as basic as they are now - in 5 years time, with the proliferation of
WebGL and HTML canvas support in all major browsers?

Both of these require strong Javascript programming to even use. Both of these (much more so the WebGL)
will eventually allow web Design that is a million times better than what is currently on offer (Think of the graphics
you're favourite console game has versus the webs current graphics, where maths becomes more
important for design than drag and drop graphic creation, we are moving beyound sprites ).

Half of a multimedia students course centers on the web, be it CSS/ HTML/ Javascript or Photoshop + Theory.
Who do you think could write much better CSS/ HTML/ Javascript? From my experience the CS student can
write fluently, while the Multimedia student can't. Infact these are SO easy for CS students
they mock these languages.

Why do I bring these up? Surely their Developer stuff not Designer stuff.
Nope, Developer stuff is Perl, PHP, SQL, server side stuff. Design stuff
is HTML/ CSS and Javascript which are all used to create everything you see
on a webpage and are client sided.

I remember how pissed off my multimedia student friends were when Steve Jobs
killed off flash from the IPhone and IPad. Flash is a propriety resource hog that
is being made redundent and they are forced to spend about a quarter of their
time studying it without realising how useless it will be to them soon.

WIth flash about to die, and the web moving towards next generation WebGL based
websites, multimedia students as we know them are going to be completely left behind
in their main money making field, we don't need millions and millions of
people to edit video and hold cameras.

At the best you could say their not one bit future proof, but even currently
as I'm arguing, Computer Science students can design websites better than
Multimedia students, bar graphics. But how many graphics do you see on the top
websites that are hard to do? Youtube, Google, this forum, even general nice graphics
on smaller business sites are very easy once you cover the basics.

The multimedia degree is a very soft degree and is the easy fun route in college generally taken
by the Ego maniacs (but also many creative nice people).
Its a very badly structured degree. They should be forced to atleast learn to write javascript
fluently, or rename the course Drag and Drop editing

Webmonkey

In the end of the day, either the majority of both CS and Multimedia students are fairly useless at the beginning or they are very gifted.

But usually the ones that come out good are the ones that have being doing it before college and in their spare time.

It's mainly experience in my opinion regardless of the degree but yeah, a CS student will be more useful when it comes to the programming aspect but I know excellent programmers that cannot put together a nice HTML/CSS site. It's not really the same mindset putting together a site than it is programming.

You say Javascript etc, these arn't things you see directly so I'm not going to cover them in "web design". Plus with the JS frameworks out there now, any dummy could use JS/AJAX if they put their mind to it.

TonyStark

It really depends on the person IMHO. I've seen people myself go through college in both disciplines and it is possible to get first class honours in both degrees and still remain particularly inept at web work. Of course this is usually just the edge case.

I completed computer science degree so had quite a strong background in the programming part of things. However the level of exposure to HTML was minimal and web/database projects were frowned on and actively discourage by computer science lecturers who would be unwilling to back or endorse those projects. Mainly as they were seen to be a soft option.

I don't agree either with the thoughts that putting together a website isn't the same as programming. I would look on a website as a software application no matter now basic or rudimentary it is. The approach should always be the same of producing work of a high quality. It becomes irrelevant what degree you start with as industry will determine if you are up to it or not.

Enda_of_Eire

TonyStark wrote: »

It really depends on the person IMHO. I've seen people myself go through college in both disciplines and it is possible to get first class honours in both degrees and still remain particularly inept at web work. Of course this is usually just the edge case.

I completed computer science degree so had quite a strong background in the programming part of things. However the level of exposure to HTML was minimal and web/database projects were frowned on and actively discourage by computer science lecturers who would be unwilling to back or endorse those projects. Mainly as they were seen to be a soft option.

I don't agree either with the thoughts that putting together a website isn't the same as programming. I would look on a website as a software application no matter now basic or rudimentary it is. The approach should always be the same of producing work of a high quality. It becomes irrelevant what degree you start with as industry will determine if you are up to it or not.

Great post :pac:

Deliverance

Enda make the effort to go and see what the current multimedia graduates are developing and designing across the country, they are in the process of creating and developing incredible ideas that are a credit to any multimedia course. Go and see their end of year results at their exhibition at CIT and other colleges and then come back with a more informed humble 'debate' about the usefull nature of the design course in 'your question'.

After seeing what they have 'designed' and indeed 'developed' then you will be thinking on a whole new level i.e. you will want to be working with them and 'uping your game' rather than knocking these talented people that have learned the design process that they have expertly implemented through an intense none stop process of 4yrs of hard work.

Deliverance

Ps In my opinion, after working in industry for awhile I find that employers require a multiple of skills in this area. i.e. computer science and design graduates are needed as a team effort to get a job done.

I have found that an expertise in both areas is beneficial for both parties to get the work done for the client i.e. A computer grad benefits by communicating with a multimedia grad overall.

At the end of the day it is a team effort of expertise combined. Hardly a debate at all really, just a learning process that disparate experts need to realise by combining their expertise openly and collaboratively to get the job done for a client whom has paid large amounts of cash and places trust on said experts to get that job done for them as a team of experts.

That is my profesional view from actual experience.

Enda_of_Eire

Deliverance wrote: »

Enda make the effort to go and see what the current multimedia graduates are developing and designing across the country, they are in the process of creating and developing incredible ideas that are a credit to any multimedia course. Go and see their end of year results at their exhibition at CIT and other colleges and then come back with a more informed humble 'debate' about the usefull nature of the design course in 'your question'.

After seeing what they have 'designed' and indeed 'developed' then you will be thinking on a whole new level i.e. you will want to be working with them and 'uping your game' rather than knocking these talented people that have learned the design process that they have expertly implemented through an intense none stop process of 4yrs of hard work.

Thanks I haden't realised CIT multimedia students have an end of year exhibit, I'll keep an eye on CIT's website and check this out for a day trek.

I would love to be proved wrong. My view has been based on students from three different classes, but maybe these are the class stragglers, however they were such low level I would have expected them to have failed and be glum not openly boasting about and showing their trashy 4 person final projects on facebook.

I will wait and see anyway, at the moment I'm very sceptical when the skill sets are compared to those of other honour degree graduates.

cormee

Neither are ideal. Someone with formal design training would be better. For some strange reason people in this line of work equate an ability to use Photoshop with a design ability.

Scotty #

Enda_of_Eire wrote: »

website design theory could be written on a few pages.

Ahh c'mon. You could read thousands of pages on the subject and still only cover typography.

It boils down to the individual. I think in MM there are good designers and there are good coders. CS students tend to be just good coders. There will be those who come through either course with a mediocre skill level and there will be those who go on to become leaders in their field.

I'd agree that the Multimedia route is the easier route or rather the less technical one but it's simply untrue to say that they are not needed because the computer grad can do it all.


Off topic:

I remember how pissed off my multimedia student friends were when Steve Jobs killed off flash from the IPhone and IPad. Flash is a propriety resource hog that is being made redundent...

I've been hearing flash is becoming redundant for 10+ years now and I've still to see any decline. Steve Jobs banned flash from certain Apple products because it opens an avenue for App developers to release Apps without going through the App Store. It has nothing to do with resource hogging or Flash's future.

tricky D

website design theory could be written on a few pages.

Web design/UX is about interacting and dealing with people (and other matters). Learning about that is a never ending process.

StupidLikeAFox

Its like saying why should Ikea employ designers when they have furniture makers, or Ford employ designers when they have engineers, Gucci employ designers when they have dressmakers.

Just because you get something to work doesnt mean you can make it look good!

I dont really know much of the courses but if Multimedia is more focussed on nurturing the creative side of things, while adding a little background work as to whats under the hood, I can see how it would be useful.

Placebo

i did BSc in computer science in Maynooth
and i did an MSc in multimedia systems in Trinity

MSc was a joke, while it is hard to cover all the concepts in one year i still thought it was a waste of time. There were no webdesign courses at that point in time so i decided to get it on my cv.

While i didnt learn or gain any webdesign skills from my BSc either, i just think it layed a nice platform for me to build my own skills.

While the roles these days are decided designer/developer, i still think there is place for dual skilled people, they can cover the gaps much easily.
It all really depends on your work , rather than your background. Either side will fail to deliver solely in my eyes