Good news for Irish Rail Mark 3s?

dowlingm

No sillys, not in Irish Rail service, but it's possible the cars they no longer use might have just become slightly more marketable if regauged and refurbished

Railway Gazette: HSTs are good to 2035

UK: An IMechE seminar on February 21 considered recent work undertaken to establish the long-term mechanical and electrical integrity of the Mk III coaches used in the 200 km/h IC125 diesel high speed trains.

Developments were detailed in presentations by senior engineers from operators First Great Western and East Midlands Trains, as well as fleet owners Angel Trains and Porterbrook Leasing.

Although some HSTs are to be replaced under the Intercity Express Programme, others are expected to continue running on services from London to the West of England. While the power cars have been upgraded, the Mk III trailer coaches have received less comprehensive refurbishment.

With life-extension likely, it was decided to apply Finite Element Analysis to the Mk III bodyshell, to determine the fatigue life and identify weak points. Forces were measured using an instrumented FGW vehicle and fed into the model, which was run for 60 years.

The work showed that the Mk III body structure is 'a lot better than expected' and can run safely to at least 2035. The modelling had a built-in margin of error, because present-day loads are greater than in the past and the HSTs are operated more intensively.

Only four weld locations were identified as potential problem areas, and these will be monitored during future overhauls. Crack propagation analysis was also carried out.

While the power cars have been largely rewired as part of repowering programmes (RG 7.10 p32), much of the cabling in the trailer vehicles remains in its original condition. Accelerated electrical and mechanical life testing by Cobham Technical Services revealed that only the train supply cables and catering equipment wiring needed attention, principally because of their hostile environment. Overall, the Pirelli cable is fit for at least another 25 years of service, assuming the duty cycle remains the same. Some obsolete components, such as junction boxes and circuit breakers, are now being replaced.

Legislation also affects continued service operation, notably the requirement to comply with the Persons of Reduced Mobility TSI from 2020. The seminar was shown the prototype of a new interior door handle, plus a video of a Mk III powered door under test.

foggy_lad

Seriously though Who would want the knackered auld carriages after years of Irish rail maintenance?

dowlingm

One option might be:
1. Buy the bodyshells but not the underframes.
2. Refit the bodyshells in the UK (accessibility, toilets, electrical, lighting, pushpull, AC refit)
3. Slap them onto Mk3UK underframes, whose shells could be then stored or junked.

That might offer an option for a reduced window for pulling stock into and out of service, leading to higher availability % with same fleet size, unless the underframes required such refit that having precooked shells wouldn't help much.

corktina

monocoque bodies...you mean bogies rather than underframes??

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

monocoque bodies...you mean bogies rather than underframes??

That's what I was thinking. Sure, the bogies are standard design with regauging a minor exercise in the scheme of things so it won't be a massive issue. Quite how much a complete refurbishment and overhaul would cost in comparison to a new DMU or carriage is another story, however.

dowlingm

Thanks for the clarifications above.

As for the DMU vs Mark 3 issue - if they're keeping the powercars it doesn't seem to make much sense to compare powered and unpowered units rather than a new trailer vs a rebuild.

DWCommuter

They will go forever!:D

sdanseo

These should be serving Drogheda/M3/Kildare/Rosslare to Dublin and not sitting idle. 29000s are noisy uncomfortable buggers to sit on for an hour or more.

Absolute disgrace that we have perfectly good rolling stock gathering dust.

dowlingm

sdonn - no they can't. You're obviously unaware over just how many pushpull carriages were scrapped. At end of January there was only 2 control cars, the cafe car and six standards. As it is there's no idea what state those ones are in, and it would require an available pushpull 201.

sdanseo

dowlingm wrote: »

sdonn - no they can't. You're obviously unaware over just how many pushpull carriages were scrapped. At end of January there was only 2 control cars, the cafe car and six standards. As it is there's no idea what state those ones are in, and it would require an available pushpull 201.

Fair enough - I was under the impression there were 3 or 4 rakes in East Wall and enough power cars to go round.

Resteraunt cars are not the be all and end all for the runs I was speaking of, of course. Trolley wouldn't even be nessecary.

As it is, what you've outlined is a full set. Why not use them if they're useable?

The only hope for Mark 3s in Ireland now (because 3 of the 5 control cars have been scrapped) would be to allow the use of a locomotive on each end, but one 201 is bad enough on the tracks, let alone two.

But it won't happen, not while Dick Fearn remains at the top anyway.

dowlingm

The time to reverse course on the PPs was when 22037 derailed when arguably there was still time. Did I mention that the PP carriages are split over three different sites? It's almost like someone didn't want a viable set assembled

I could almost see a set like this being assembled
6101, 6307, 6301, 6305, 6306, 6308, 6313, 6402, 7604

After all, why shouldn't IE have a set they'll spend a ton of money on and never use, just like the NIR Gatwicks+DBSO?

corktina

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Sure, the bogies are standard design with regauging a minor exercise in the scheme of things so it won't be a massive issue. Quite how much a complete refurbishment and overhaul would cost in comparison to a new DMU or carriage is another story, however.

i think supply of "BR" guage bogies shouldnt be that much of a problem....there are (or were) quite a few stored Mk3 sleepers around

Run_to_da_hills

sdonn wrote: »

These should be serving Drogheda/M3/Kildare/Rosslare to Dublin and not sitting idle. 29000s are noisy uncomfortable buggers to sit on for an hour or more.

Absolute disgrace that we have perfectly good rolling stock gathering dust.

Worse still are the abandoned M3's along the docks in Waterford exposed to the sea elements, disgrace, they have already weathered the equivalent of 10 years in the period that they have been sitting there. :mad:

dowlingm

That's the IE "rustage" regime. If you stored them at somewhere like Athlone West there wouldn't be a lovely salty tang to the air :D

Victor

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Sure, the bogies are standard design with regauging a minor exercise in the scheme of things so it won't be a massive issue. Quite how much a complete refurbishment and overhaul would cost in comparison to a new DMU or carriage is another story, however.

A two-three hundred thousand for toilet retention tanks, rewiring, lighting, air conditioning, possibly new windows, renewed interiors and a general overhaul, compared to €1-2.5 million per carriage for new (lower end for basic carriages, higher end for DMUs).

sdonn wrote: »

These should be serving Drogheda/M3/Kildare/Rosslare to Dublin and not sitting idle. 29000s are noisy uncomfortable buggers to sit on for an hour or more.

These would be best used on long distance services with limited stops as loco-hauled trains don't have the accelleration needed for frequent stops.

dowlingm

Remaining Mark IIIs at Heuston have been moved to North Wall as of Good Friday. The presumption is that it is to make room for incoming 22000s from Korea.

Rud

Would the new 22000s not be tested on runs from the depot in Portlaoise rather than Heuston?Also the MK3s were getting badly covered in graffiti so maybe that was part of the reason for them been moved?

dowlingm

The first group of 22Ks were staged out of Limerick Junction. It could be that if they land through North Wall it makes sense to IE to stage them out of Heuston (especially since ROTEM are set up in the old valeting shed). It does seem odd to run test trains out of Heuston given the havoc a failure would cause...

Rud

Rud wrote: »

Also the MK3s were getting badly covered in graffiti so maybe that was part of the reason for them been moved?

I can't see them fairing much better in North Wall.

corktina

Handy for the ferry though

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

Handy for the ferry though

They'll never make the ferry now.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUL366095

23/07/2012

Irish Rail are inviting companies to participate in a competition to dispose of approximately 90 MK3 Passenger Carriages which are now surplus to requirement.

The vehicles are currently stored in four locations around the country which are Dublin Inchicore and North Wall, Waterford and Dundalk.
The contract will involve the successful company to supply all the labour necessary to break-up the vehicles and to dispose of them in the appropriate manner.

end of the road

the plan was always to leave them to rot so they wouldn't be worth anything and nobody else could use them. RIP to the best carriges ever to travel on irish railways. they will never be topped.

dowlingm

I wonder if the BT22 bogies are worth anything in the UK Mk3 refurb market. From what I recall the PP DVTs got some BT10s from the UK so presumably they are regaugable.