Dribble all down my shirt

corktina

just returned from a visit to Cultra (Ulster Folk and Transport Museum)...my first ever.

Observations(on Railway display)
it is far more All-Ireland than I imagined
It has far more carriages etc than I thought posssible
Loved Maebh (knew I would) shame it will almost certainly never run again
Loved Dunluce Castle (a surprise!) Needs a new boiler I beleive but what a handy size for the main Line!
Loved Kathleen and everything CDRJC (knew I would....)

Great day out, going on my own next time as the Missus only tolerated it really...)
Off now for my Lemon Curd Sandwiches.

Rud

I have only ever seen videos and pictures of Maedbh but my god she looks like a beautiful loco

steamengine

Our railways' finest hour IMO - built in Inchicore - pure engineering class !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSR_Class_B1a

Judgement Day

Corktina - How time flies when you're having fun! Do you recognise this location?

shamwari

Some of the motoring harware in Cultra is equally impressive too. Apart from Maedbh, there's a nice Rover SD1 in somewhat skeletal form!

DWCommuter

steamengine wrote: »

Our railways' finest hour IMO - built in Inchicore - pure engineering class !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSR_Class_B1a

As more of an advocator of Irish railways than a pure bred enthusiast, my relationship with Irish railway history would make me agree with you in absolute. Proof than someone somewhere knew what they were doing, but also proof that they were totally out of touch with those that actually ran the railway. Now there's a debate for another day.

As for Cultra, I personally love it, despite its dormant development. Unfortunately it will forever remain just a particular example of Irish railway history. It stands still in time and no museum should be like that as time is always moving. Stick a 141 class in it and we might be getting somewhere.

I think I'll go up next week while the ITT rally is on. Was meant to go on the 5th of March but I put a woman first and called it off!

CIE

DWCommuter wrote: »

steamengine wrote: »

Our railways' finest hour IMO - built in Inchicore - pure engineering class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSR_Class_B1a

As more of an advocator of Irish railways than a pure bred enthusiast, my relationship with Irish railway history would make me agree with you in absolute. Proof than someone somewhere knew what they were doing, but also proof that they were totally out of touch with those that actually ran the railway

More like those who ran the railway were the ones out of touch. The railways needed modern power for ages, but instead the management were penny-wise and pound-foolish, rebuilding old engines with Belpaire fireboxes and superheaters but ending up with anaemic power anyway due to the other inherent limitations that a rebuild couldn't fix (e.g. firebox grate area, boiler size and so on)...reportedly before the 800 class came out, Cork-Dublin passenger trains needed three engines to climb the grade out of Cork's Glanmire Road station. This short-sighted outlook carried over into CIE and was compounded (pardon the pun) by government bureaucracy thrown into the mix. About the wisest move CIE made was to procure General Motors EMD diesel-electrics...beyond that? pure extravagance and even madness, even in (especially in?) the 21st century, when the abundance of modern rail technology has outpaced Irish rails once more, DART being a way-overdue exception and one that still needs more duplication.

Terrontress

There used to be a transport museum in East Belfast where Maedbh resided. When that was closed she was taken by rail out to Cultra. This must have been in the early nineties.

My dad took me out to see her making the journey out there. I think we stood at Bridge End Halt although that would put us in the wrong direction if it went straight from the old museum. Maybe she was in Central station or some engineering location prior to that. I don't think the Dargan Bridge had opened yet for her to have been in York Road.

Anyway, we were watching the distance for some steam and smoke to announce her arrival but unfortunately she was towed along by an NIR111.

Anyway, I think I witnessed her last (to date) journey.

flowerchild

This thread should be reported for building false expectations ...

BTW, I often dribble.

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

Corktina - How time flies when you're having fun! Do you recognise this location?

athenry?

corktina

shamwari wrote: »

Some of the motoring harware in Cultra is equally impressive too. Apart from Maedbh, there's a nice Rover SD1 in somewhat skeletal form!

also a Cortina to my surprise




shocking bad phots....srry

corktina

DWCommuter wrote: »

As more of an advocator of Irish railways than a pure bred enthusiast, my relationship with Irish railway history would make me agree with you in absolute. Proof than someone somewhere knew what they were doing, but also proof that they were totally out of touch with those that actually ran the railway. Now there's a debate for another day.

As for Cultra, I personally love it, despite its dormant development. Unfortunately it will forever remain just a particular example of Irish railway history. It stands still in time and no museum should be like that as time is always moving. Stick a 141 class in it and we might be getting somewhere.

well i agree up to a point, however there is a coach allegedly from the Sea Breeze which must be a modern addition and the range of rolling stock is quite comprehensive for the size of place.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

athenry?

Athenry at Cultra about 1991. You're a true dribbler - sorry I ever doubted you.

dermo88

You have to go to England to get some hint of what Maedhbh's performance was like, and find its British equivalent, I suspect is an LMS 4-6-0 of the Royal Scot type - not entirely sure. The transformation in capability allowed by those 3 engines can only be imagined. The ability to climb Rathpeacon at 25mph unassisted. To get an idea of what that is like, I reckon you need to look up footage of steam clibing Hemerdon Bank near Newton Abbot in Britain.

The axleloading of the B1a type was their downfall in another way, because of the relatively lax track maintainance regime in Ireland. Irish track was in very poor condition by International standards until the early 2000's.

Legends are few and far between, and the construction of Maedhbh and her sisters shows that even small agricultural nations like Ireland are capable of producing engineering masterpieces. By contrast, their withdrawal and replacement by the MV A Class diesels and then the GM's show that only large industrial nations can produce decent modern traction.

When it came to replacing the diesel fleet, money was scarce, and US Dollars were even more scarce, so going the whole hog down the GM route was not possible in 1954-1955. There was a deep recession then also. The engineers would definitely have preferred GM, and had it been my choice, I'd have gone for something like the Danish GM engines from NOHAB. Sulzer or English Electric would be the other two options I'd go for. Maybach or any of the German suppliers would suffer from the relatively low maintainance regime in Ireland. There was to a certain extent an element of Fuel them, flog them and eff them on Irish Railways, and the GM type showed that they can take an unmerciful battering and still work.

Finally, when it comes to Cultra, I think the rational future additions are:

80 Class DMU
B113 Sulzer
A Class (001 type)
141/121 Class
Cravens, Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches.

corktina

i think it would be Northern orientated than that, so Id say one of the Hunslet trio and one of the big GMs plus the class 80 would bring the story up to date without need ing a whole lot of extra room.

Judgement Day

Dermo88 - Where on earth do you think Cultra would put all the stock you list? It is a government designed museum with no thought to future acquisitions, no proper reserve collection building or workshop. It may be vastly better than our 'so called' National Transport Museum but that isn't saying much. Quite apart from the vehicles you list, there are a quite a number of priceless rail vehicles still lying around the country (not public knowledge) - and that's not including the stock from the Mallow GSRPS collection which has ended up in various strange locations. Anyway, don't hold your breath while you wait for the Cultra people to embark on the stock acquisition trail.

Corktina - I take it that Cultra still haven't managed to produce a stock/guidebook? Even the original museum in Witham Street had a couple of typed sheets.

Terrontress

Judgement Day wrote: »

Corktina - I take it that Cultra still haven't managed to produce a stock/guidebook? Even the original museum in Witham Street had a couple of typed sheets.

Was Witham St. the East Belfast museum? I just google mapped it and it seems so. Were you ever there? It was a fairly dodgy area if I remember correctly but, given the age I was, was absolutely fantastic fun.

One thing I remember, perhaps you can confirm it, there was a really small E-Type Jag with leopard-print seats and a picture of a dwarved guy standing beside this little E-Type. Sort of a scale model.

The museum was just so dark and as well as the vehicles there were things off railway platforms. Old cigarette machines and I remember a machine which would punch letters in to a strip of metal. The machines probably still functioned but only accepted old money so we couldn't use them.

Judgement Day

Yes, the old museum at Witham Street was indeed in East Belfast and an 'interesting' walk from Central Station. I was last there on the 6th July 1987. It was an impossible place to take any sort of photograph. I remember that the few road vehicles, bicycles etc. were all at the front of the railway exhibits but not having any interest in road transport I can't recall any details. It was a funny old museum and the curator, the late Bob Beggs, was older than a lot of the exhibits.

Was up at Cultra today for the ITT Bus Rally, got a spin to Bangor and back in an ex London Routemaster. Photos here.

Judgement Day

Great pics. I think the shot of the piece of **** CIE 30 ton brakevan says it all about Cultra's collection policy. While they have seen fit to preserve this non-event there are priceless relics scattered all over the country such as Sulzer 113 at Inchicore and ex.WL&WR Railway #900 marooned at Belturbet etc.etc.etc...:rolleyes:

corktina

i dont agree. I thought that van was one of the better exhibits as it is a run of the mill item and not a glamour loco. It also is from CIE which (along with other iotems) is commendable for an ULSTER Museum. This Museum is quite small and yet has managed to cover quite a comprehensive picture of Ireland railways. If you want to object to something, object to the 2 model UK locos or the crap Scotrail Hornby class 47 model.

FFS this place is head and shoulders above anything that exists in the Republic, why run it down? More constructive would be to advocate a similar museum in Dublin or Cork!

Judgement Day

Corktina - I quite agree that it is very important that everyday vehicles such as the brakevan should be preserved but I think it does illustrate a serious lack of direction in the museum's collecting policy. I mean they even had a CIE 2400 series dining car stuck in the middle of the museum for several years. It's all very well preserving everyday vehicles but not at the expense of truly important ones such as the two I previously mentioned. Come to think of it the Tralee & Dingle carriage stored at Dromod should be in a National Museum rather than mouldering away down the bog.
As for advocating a similar museum down here - I have been doing so since I left school in 1977 and have finally thrown my hat at it. I have published two guides promoting transport preservation, written numerous pieces about it down the years, gone on radio about it etc.etc. but how much can one person do when nobody in officialdom gives a flying **** about it or anything else except their salaries, expenses and brown envelopes? If you're interested follow this link http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/ and it will bring you to a piece that I wrote for the Sunday Tribune back in 1982 - the response from officialdom nil but plenty of personal abuse from enthusiasts who felt I shouldn't be rocking the boat.

Flukey

I was up there in March. An interesting place to visit, even for people not highly into forms of transport. A nice day out. If you are in the area, drop in.