darragh O'Brien expresses outrage, review Metro North

martinn123

Government puts Metro North under review and job creation on hold - O’Brien

Posted on 07/04/11 by Darragh O’Brien
Senator Darragh O’Brien has expressed his anger and disappointment at the decision of the Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar not to approve the enabling works for Metro North and to include it in a review of transport projects already planned, delaying critical infrastructure investment and job creation.
“Minister Varadkar has simply made the wrong call here. Dublin needs Metro North and it should be built. To facilitate construction certain utilities, pipes and telecommunications running under O’Connell Street need to be moved. The Minister has said he will not allow these works to go ahead because he fears the companies bidding to build Metro might pull out. He’s missing the point entirely as a lack of commitment and certainty from the new Government to this project could bring that exact scenario about.”

www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/6699

Now I agree that infrastructure projects such as Metro North are required to create much needed jobs, Varadkar has stated that of the Big 3 projects planned there is only enough cash in the kitty for 1.

Darragh O'Brien who lost his seat in Dublin North, when FF was wiped out complains that due to the state of the economy a review is needed before funds are committed.
Where was his outrage, when his party left the stage, with the economy in tatters.

I did not vote FG, but I agree that prior to all promises made by FF being progressed, Thornton Hall, Mater Hosp, Metro, Underground etc. that at least the New Govt will take some time to complete a review, before committing funds we do not have to major projects.

later12

I am usually all in favour of extending and integrating the public transport network where possible, but we must be pragmatic. Why is there an inherent assumption that Metro North is actually needed at this point?

At a time when the country is on its knees it is not so much pertinent to ask whether we need it, but whether we need it now?

I agree with the Government reviewing previous promises. Any new project of this magnitude must be subjected to new and more rigourous cost-benefit analysis than any which was exerted on the proposal previously.

Darragh O'Brien is just playing to his electorate; he is perfectly entitled to do so but the general public are likely to see right through it.

Godge

You know, I think Daragh O'Brien has every right to be outraged:rolleyes:. He is just picking the wrong target. If only Fianna Fail had stuck to their various National Development Plans and hadn't wasted the country's money, the Metro would have already been built and there wouldn't be an unfinished project to cancel by the new Government which has to rescue our country from the depths to which FF consigned us.

Devi

anybody else think it was the comedian for a minute?

dan_d

The background to that story is that Varadkar has said that only one of 3 projects can go ahead - a Luas interconnector, the DART underground and Metro North.

He's deciding by Sept, I believe.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0408/1224294220939.html

Seems like a totally ridiculous thing to have to decide. The DART underground, in this context, should be ruled out (it's just not necessary). Leaving the other 2. I won't comment either way on which should or shouldn't happen....

dan_d

dan_d wrote: »

The background to that story is that Varadkar has said that only one of 3 projects can go ahead - a Luas interconnector, the DART underground and Metro North.

He's deciding by Sept, I believe.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0408/1224294220939.html

Seems like a totally ridiculous thing to have to decide. The DART underground, in this context, should be ruled out (it's just not necessary). Leaving the other 2. I won't comment either way on which should or shouldn't happen....

I'd suggest the Luas, but considering the reason is lack of funds and the budget blow up last time...

Overature

im not clicking on a finna fail link, it might cause the country to go to **** again

jd

dan_d wrote: »

The DART underground, in this context, should be ruled out (it's just not necessary).

That's untrue, it's probably the most important of the three. It greatly increases the capacity and connectivity of the existing rail network.

dan_d

bluewolf wrote: »

I'd suggest the Luas, but considering the reason is lack of funds and the budget blow up last time...

Yeah....don't think this is the place to get into which would be the more suitable!!!

Godge

jd wrote: »

That's untrue, it's probably the most important of the three. It greatly increases the capacity and connectivity of the existing rail network.

Agree, integration of the various modes is now vitally important. The Dart Underground does the work of the Luas Interconnector as well as its own link-up

theparish

As Dustin the turkey once or twice said lets bring the Dart to Dingle.
Why spend 4 billion when you can spend 7, I mean 9,oh sorry there missed a decimal 12 billion ,just a second..................
Great country we live in, pity we cannot learn from the many past mistakes of wasting money.Ah sure whats another 5 or 8 billion when we owe 100.

ninty9er

later10 wrote: »

At a time when the country is on its knees it is not so much pertinent to ask whether we need it, but whether we need it now?
.

That's the attitude that's going to get us ready for the future :rolleyes:

If we built infrastructure on the basis of whether we need it now nothing major would ever be built.

I'd prefer the money to be spent on public transport outside of Dublin, but I don't judge infrastructure just on its economic basis, the social benefit is also very important.

the groutch

if FF had just gone underground when building the Luas, there wouldnt have been any need for any 3 of these projects, because they'd already be built

Treehouse72

Senator Darragh O’Brien...

Know your place Darragh, good lad.

chughes

Devi wrote: »

anybody else think it was the comedian for a minute?

It was, just not the big guy from Bray.

jamesbrond

It all depends where you live which one you would choose.

A few hundred thousand people living and working between Swords and the city center would probably want Metro North.

People like me who would prefer to be able to get the Green Luas all the way to Connolly to save me a few minutes walk would prefer the a luas connection.

Most people who live on the Green line dont want them connected though. Just get the red line (like a moving crack house) and then the green line (civilized) to see their point of view.

Nobody actually cares about a Dart underground.

RichardAnd

jamesbrond wrote: »

Most people who live on the Green line dont want them connected though. Just get the red line (like a moving crack house) and then the green line (civilized) to see their point of view.

I agree with this. I have to get the red luas later today to get to heuston station. Not at all looking forward to it.

sargito

There is more to this than just local politics. Two 'Galway tent' developers had previously bought all land where the proposed Metro stops will be. If the Metro is cancelled then they will lose their substantial investment. Old habits die hard and this may have more to do with protecting these FF highrollers investment than infrastructure or employment.

later12

sargito wrote: »

There is more to this than just local politics... this may have more to do with protecting these FF highrollers investment

Do you think there is the remotest prospect that anyone in government would change their mind based on the Senator's comments? How on earth, therefore, could it be about protecting "FF highroller's investment"?

Daft. At this stage FF should have its own section in conspiracy theories on this site.

sargito

Eh not a conspiracy but fact. By questioning FGs approach to the project it heightens public awareness for the 'necessity ' of the project and the dangers if it is not handled in the 'right ' way. Check out any of Fintan o' Toole's writing on the Metro it's all there.

later12

sargito wrote: »

Eh not a conspiracy but fact. By questioning FGs approach to the project it heightens public awareness for the 'necessity ' of the project and the dangers if it is not handled in the 'right ' way. Check out any of Fintan o' Toole's writing on the Metro it's all there.

Oh well if Fintan O'Toole said it, it must be true.

amacachi

theparish wrote: »

As Dustin the turkey once or twice said lets bring the Dart to Dingle.
Why spend 4 billion when you can spend 7, I mean 9,oh sorry there missed a decimal 12 billion ,just a second..................
Great country we live in, pity we cannot learn from the many past mistakes of wasting money.Ah sure whats another 5 or 8 billion when we owe 100.

Been reading Myers?

NuMarvel

jamesbrond wrote: »

It all depends where you live which one you would choose.

A few hundred thousand people living and working between Swords and the city center would probably want Metro North.

People like me who would prefer to be able to get the Green Luas all the way to Connolly to save me a few minutes walk would prefer the a luas connection.

Most people who live on the Green line dont want them connected though. Just get the red line (like a moving crack house) and then the green line (civilized) to see their point of view.

Nobody actually cares about a Dart underground.

Just to clarify: the proposed LUAS line won't go to Connolly. It will go down O'Connell Street and have a stop close to Abbey Street, where passengers would change for the Red Line to Connolly/Point/Tallaght, etc. I think the line will have some connections built so that trams can go from the Green Line to the Red Line in some instances, but passenger services won't run like that.

sargito

later10 wrote: »

Oh well if Fintan O'Toole said it, it must be true.

Only if you're overly subjective, but it is valid. i never said it was the only reason, what you seem to be suggesting is that business people who have a proven track record of successfully lobbying Irish politicians over minor impediments to their interests would not use their contacts again to highlight in a public forum the importance of a project they have substantial interest in.

Lobbying is a part of everyday politics, people ask politicians for any amount of things, its not conspiratorial.

But the relative power of some business interests to successfully lobby when compared to others, say community projects, is well documented in Irish politics in general not just FF.

As for the the power of a Senators remarks well you're on here discussing it. It was deemed newsworthy, printed, now it's in your conciousness and you've formed an opinion. Already Metro North has assumed greater importance than the other two projects.

If I was a lobbyist I'd consider that a good days work.

jd

sargito wrote: »

Two 'Galway tent' developers had previously bought all land where the proposed Metro stops will be. If the Metro is cancelled then they will lose their substantial investment.

All land where the stops will be? Two developers had bought land north of swords, and planning permission was refused for that section of the metro. I don't this particular FFer has links with the Galway Tent brigade, the more likely reason he's on about this is that Swords is in his constituency.

later12

sargito wrote: »

what you seem to be suggesting is that business people who have a proven track record of successfully lobbying Irish politicians over minor impediments to their interests would not use their contacts again to highlight in a public forum the importance of a project they have substantial interest in.

No, not at all. I just don't think a shrewd businessman would approach a member of a small, toxic party to do so; or that anyone would take it seriously.

now it's in your conciousness and you've formed an opinion. Already Metro North has assumed greater importance than the other two projects.

Has it? Who says?

Tinfoil hats, everybody, Fianna Fail is on the mind programming device again.

If I was a lobbyist I'd consider that a good days work

If you were a lobbyist and you approached a party in FF's position I'd consider you a terrifically useless lobbyist.

sargito

later10 wrote: »

Has it? Who says?

Unless you have been posessed or are suffering a fit that has miraculously typed out and sent all previous posts, it has, we are discussing it, it is in the public conciousness.
But believe what you want.

has planning permission been rejected for all stops? First I've heard of it. how are people going to get on and off?

I seem to be in a surreal discussion where, somehow, the practices in awarding of and selection of huge projects by a now discredited Government guilty of excessive waste and cronyism is being defended. and further to that , that a member of the Senate, who did not get elected, has constituents.

If Senator O'brien stands for re-election he will need two things. donations and a place in the public conciousness.


Check and check.

Aard

jamesbrond wrote: »

Nobody actually cares about a Dart underground.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true, simply because it doesn't "open up" any suburban areas to rail. The two biggest "winners" from DU would be those on the Kildare or Maynooth lines, as they'd be able to get the train closer to the city centre. Of course, too, it would allow greater frequency on all the rail lines. Work with what we've got, as Leo said.

later12

sargito wrote: »

Unless you have been posessed or are suffering a fit that has miraculously typed out and sent all previous posts, it has, we are discussing it, it is in the public conciousness.

No, I'm asking if the Metro North proposal has, on foot of Senator O'Brien's comments, assumed greater importance than the other proposals. I don't see any evidence supporting that.

If Senator O'brien stands for re-election he will need two things. donations and a place in the public conciousness.


Check and check.

Nonsense. While nobody would realistically contest the fact that this is a quest for attention, the idea that it has anything to do with donations is just an absurd invention, relying moreso on emotion than evidence. You're free to believe it, but others are equally free to point that out to you.

jimmycrackcorm

My sole objection to the metro north is that it will inevitably be massively over budget.

Aard

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My sole objection to the metro north is that it will inevitably be massively over budget.

Don't most things come out over budget anyway? Why single out MN?

dan_d

sargito wrote: »

There is more to this than just local politics. Two 'Galway tent' developers had previously bought all land where the proposed Metro stops will be. If the Metro is cancelled then they will lose their substantial investment. Old habits die hard and this may have more to do with protecting these FF highrollers investment than infrastructure or employment.

I actually don't think that's true.
They may have bought some land but not all.

ninty9er

sargito wrote: »

There is more to this than just local politics. Two 'Galway tent' developers had previously bought all land where the proposed Metro stops will be. If the Metro is cancelled then they will lose their substantial investment. Old habits die hard and this may have more to do with protecting these FF highrollers investment than infrastructure or employment.

And the same 2 developers (if they actually exist) probably play in the FG golf classic every year too. What's your point?

Elmo

martinn123 wrote: »

I did not vote FG, but I agree that prior to all promises made by FF being progressed, Thornton Hall, Mater Hosp, Metro, Underground etc. that at least the New Govt will take some time to complete a review, before committing funds we do not have to major projects.

Thornton Hall wasn't an FF promise it was a PD promise and it is already over budget before they have even turned the sod. Perhaps Ciaran Cannon and Noel Grelish could progress that.

NuMarvel

Assuming we have the money for even just one of these projects, which one would have the most positive impact on the Irish economy? Which one gives us the best return on investment, both financially and socially?

I'm presuming it's not the Luas extension? While certainly a big project in it's own right, compared to the other two, it's nothing more than an extension. I can't see it generating the same employment or long term transport options as the other two. Though, I do recognise it may be the only one we can afford to do!

So of Metro North and DART Underground, which is more likely to be better for the economy? Which will generate more employment during construction? Which of the two brings more benefits to their respective communities?

I haven't a clue btw, hence the question. But if all else fails, and none of the three can go through, then there's always the Navan extension .

astrofool

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My sole objection to the metro north is that it will inevitably be massively over budget.

By that rationale, you should object to everything built in Ireland, anywhere, ever.

Elmo

NuMarvel wrote: »

So of Metro North and DART Underground, which is more likely to be better for the economy? Which will generate more employment during construction? Which of the two brings more benefits to their respective communities?

I would assume that both would create the same amount of jobs during construction, which should mean we should build both :eek:

I think your questions which is more likely to be better to for the economy and the respective communities? are more important.

Unlike An Bord Pleanala who had public hearings for DART Underground in Tallaght the furthest part of Dublin away from East Wall. :eek:

martinn123

Elmo wrote: »

Thornton Hall wasn't an FF promise it was a PD promise and it is already over budget before they have even turned the sod. Perhaps Ciaran Cannon and Noel Grelish could progress that.

Well the Minister for Justice at the time was PD, but the decision to purchase farm land at Development land prices was approved by Govt. The Cabinet at the time was predominately FF.

As I remember advertisments were placed in papers seeking suitable land for a prison, wheras the farm could have been bought by a Solr. acting in confidence for the Dept. at a fraction of the price.

Yes its over budget already, and all thats built is a surrounding wall.

Elmo

martinn123 wrote: »

Well the Minister for Justice at the time was PD, but the decision to purchase farm land at Development land prices was approved by Govt. The Cabinet at the time was predominately FF.

As I remember advertisments were placed in papers seeking suitable land for a prison, wheras the farm could have been bought by a Solr. acting in confidence for the Dept. at a fraction of the price.

Yes its over budget already, and all thats built is a surrounding wall.

It's great to see that the PDs can get away with their policies while The Greens have to become the scapegoats for the wrongs of 2 previous governments.

It was the then Minister for Justice's policy and he progressed it and recommended it to Cabinet, while the whole cabinet should take the responsibility the buck stops at the Minister otherwise we continue to get ministers like Harney who refer everything back to some Quango and whom take no responsibility for their actions.

Indeed the government should have bought it in confidence.

Does this surrounding wall make it bigger than the Phoenix Park?

jimmycrackcorm

Aard wrote: »

Don't most things come out over budget anyway? Why single out MN?

A lot of the recent road projects have come in under budget and under time e.g. the M2/N2 Ardee bypass.

For something that is built underground you'd wonder why it should cost more in

later12

Elmo wrote: »

It's great to see that the PDs can get away with their policies while The Greens have to become the scapegoats for the wrongs of 2 previous governments.

The PDs got away with something? Almost every one of them lost their seats, the party was wound up and its assets sold, and only Noel Grealish is now an independent TD. If anything, the Greens were more stupid for having been repeatedly warned about this happening to them on foot of the PD demise.

FF always eats its junior coalition partner. This is a simple fact of nature at this stage.

Elmo

later10 wrote: »

The PDs got away with something? Almost every one of them lost their seats, the party was wound up and its assets sold, and only Noel Grealish is now an independent TD. If anything, the Greens were more stupid for having been repeatedly warned about this happening to them on foot of the PD demise.

FF always eats its junior coalition partner. This is a simple fact of nature at this stage.

PDs ethos is to be seen in the new government. The fact that their former leader is now a Minister for State, the fact that Noel Grelish was return, the fact that the 3 Indo TDs that supported the 3 FF governments. The fact that The Green's came into government at a time when the bluster of the FF/PD/Indo governments blew up in their faces. FG didn't want to support The Greens with their moves towards the abolition of Corporate Funding now its an FG baby.

FG/FF will always eat their junior coalition partners, Labour better be prepared.