Career change to Accountancy??

Spaulding

Hi guys,

Just hoping I could get some advice here. I am a 25 yr old, newly qualified solicitor who has just been left go after qualifying. Due to the poor job prospects for newly qualified solicitors and uncertainty in the legal profession I am seriously thinking of a career change into accountancy or into a field in accountancy where I could use my legal background. I have invested a lot of hard work, time and money into qualifying as a solicitor. I really enjoyed the work which I found interesting and challenging and I had really hoped to carve out a career in the profession.

However one has to realistic in the current climate. There are plenty of solicitors with far more experience than me out of work. In the event of an upturn in the economy those with the experience would be hired first if at all. Going back to college is not an option due to outstanding student loans.

Can anyone advise me as to what would be the best accountancy/financial services route be to go down, ideally where I could use my legal qualification? I have been thinking along the lines of an accountancy traineeship.

Besides being a qualified solicitor. I hold a 2.1 law degree from UCD, 540 cao points and some very good legal experience. Exams have never really been a major problem although admittedly I have studied little in the way of accounting specifically. I have however studied, company law, contact, EU law, commercial law during my degree and while in blackhall place I did exams in business law, insolvency, corporate transactions, CAT, VAT and Stamp Duty. (I’m sure these are just the tip of the ice berg accountancy wise but I found them fine). Basically what I would like to know is:

• Would I have a chance of getting an accountancy traineeship with a big 4 accountancy firm?*
• Would I be attractive to a mid tier accountancy firm? Would this be a better option for one to carve out a career especially if I wanted to use my law qualification?
• Is there some other road completely different I should be heading down - funds, banking, corporate finance - (where would one even apply? is there grad recruitment involved?)
• Will my lack of an accountancy/financial degree be fatal to securing a traineeship with either a big/small firm?
• Not sure how true this is but I read on a forum here that accountancy is becoming flooded with huge numbers of newly qualified accountants. Due to the huge number of qualified accountants, wages and job opportunities will suffer. A lot like the legal profession that was rolling out far more solicitors than were needed in the good times?

* I have a friend working in one of the big 4 accountancy firms who doesn’t exactly paint a pretty picture of the place. I hear him complain about the "rat race" and how auditing is not what they thought they would be doing when he signed up. Is this a common perception about larger firms?

For someone who has student loans and a desire to be working, the thought of a traineeship that guarantees a job for 3.5 yrs holds serious appeal. The international recognition of the qualifications is also really attractive. (I just might get to live in the sun someday!!)

Thanks in advance people I hope I have provided enough info and not rambled on too long!

SBWife

Would you look into a compliance role in the funds industry? And perhaps pursue ACCA at the same time.

Chnandler Bong

Check-out Chartered Accountants Ireland, they are really helpful.

dbran

Hi

There probably would be some overlap especially when it comes to Company law and taxation issues where your previous expertise would be of advantage.

But it is definately another profession and if you have never done accountancy before (even inter cert or leaving cert) and dont know anything about bookkeeping, debits and credits, or hate the idea of numbers etc then I would think about it carefully.

A lot of stuff you do int the early stages can be quite dry and unrewarding. In the Big 4 and some mid-tier practices, you are pressurised into getting results and bringing in jobs on time and on budget. It can often be a lonely place to be.

Kind Regards


Dbran

mano79

Hi there

I am traing with Chartered Accountants Ireland at the min. Your knowledge of CAT and Vat etc would defo be useful as it would be part of your course for accountancy but thats probably where the similarities would end. But seriously these are two completely different fields and id wonder where you would get any enjoyment out of learning your debits from your credits if you have studied law from college. Is there anywhere you could get a few weeks work experience with a practice to see what you make of the work - it might help you decide.

Some of the big firms might be interested in taking you on because of your legal background though and they are offering some training vacancies each year. Your friend is right about training in the bigger firms though. Often times you get put into an auditing office and never see the light of day again. A smaller practice would offer you a far wider training where you would learn and get experience of tax, company law, and all types of accounts from sole traders to larger audits. Only problem with this is it is next to impossible to get a training vacancy in any small/medium firm at the minute.

You can train with Chartered Accountants through their Elevation programme for graduates but this would mean paying for the fees etc yourself. Getting a full training contract the traditional way means you get a small enough salary but you get your fees, study leave and usually expenses paid for you.:):)

Chnandler Bong

mano79 wrote: »

Hi there

I am traing with Chartered Accountants Ireland at the min. Your knowledge of CAT and Vat etc would defo be useful as it would be part of your course for accountancy but thats probably where the similarities would end. But seriously these are two completely different fields and id wonder where you would get any enjoyment out of learning your debits from your credits if you have studied law from college. Is there anywhere you could get a few weeks work experience with a practice to see what you make of the work - it might help you decide.

Some of the big firms might be interested in taking you on because of your legal background though and they are offering some training vacancies each year. Your friend is right about training in the bigger firms though. Often times you get put into an auditing office and never see the light of day again. A smaller practice would offer you a far wider training where you would learn and get experience of tax, company law, and all types of accounts from sole traders to larger audits. Only problem with this is it is next to impossible to get a training vacancy in any small/medium firm at the minute.

You can train with Chartered Accountants through their Elevation programme for graduates but this would mean paying for the fees etc yourself. Getting a full training contract the traditional way means you get a small enough salary but you get your fees, study leave and usually expenses paid for you.:):)

Hows your training going?

Are you enjoying it?

mano79

Second year is defo much tougher than first year was but then most people get exemptions from a lot of the subjects in first year as they would have covered them in college. Its a bit of a struggle working all week and haveing lectures most weekends but hopefully it will be worth it. There certainly is very little time for studying so will have to make up for lost time during my study leave (unpaid!!). I have a good bit of accounting experience from working in the area for years but I would say the course is very daunting if you come into it with no accountancy background.

There might be a lot of qualifieds out there trying to get jobs but there are definitely a lot less in training. Several of the training locations where lectures were always held are not able to make up the numbers and are not running lectures this year. This is mainly because it is next to impossible to get a contract with a firm so numbers around the country are well down.

Legend100

Would you consider doing the tax exams?

I'm a qualified accountant (ACA) in my final year of the tax exams and quite a good few solicitors doing the course

djdeclan

Having studied companmy law including insolvency you would potentially be useful to an insolvency dept of an accounting firm or one of the boutique insolvency practices. There is a lot of work for firms in that sector at the moment and some are recruiting.

Send me a pm if its something that you would be interested in.

thisguy

Having a legal background is definetely not fatal for your prospects if you are applying somewhere in the big 4, as I know several people who started with me this year whose backgrounds would be in an alternative field. I obviously can't tell you whether or not the work would be suited to you, but I haven't found it to bad so far.

ShawB

I just seen a post up there saying that if you have absolutely no experience with accounting for the leaving cert you should rethink your decision I highly disagree with that most accounting courses don't look for any sort of previous accounting Knowledge. I am doing my level 8 in Accounting and Finance and am a 1st year I absolutely love it and I never done accounting before in my life I am also not very good at maths. I really enjoy the law aspect of the course and the micro and macro economics. I would definitely not be scared to look into furthering your education in this field. Best of luck to you. S

DGM

Hi,

Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems to be close-ish to my question, although it's not exactly a 'career change' as such...but anyway. Basically, I have a general Business degree [specialising in Accountancy] and also a H. Dip in Applied Computers.

Employment opportunities are slim pickings at the moment as everyone knows, and the thought of studying to become a qualified Accountant with either the CAI/ACCA has crossed my mind this week. I've always been interested in fully qualifying in this field to be honest. So, I've browsed the net a bit and saw that it'd take approximately 3.5 years of doing CAP 1's, CAP 2's, etc. in order to qualify. However, to my knowledge most people who undertake these exams are currently employed by either the "Big 4", a smaller practice or something and then attend lectures at the weekends, get study leave to sit exams, etc.

I'm basically wondering can you actually do these exams without simulatenously working with a company. I.e. Do it full-time as I haven't obtained work since graduating from college last year. Obviously, I am aware that I'll have to pay for the fees and stuff myself doing it this way, but what I'm asking is do people do these exams without working with a firm at the same time? Is it allowed even?

smcgiff

DGM wrote: »

Hi,

Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems to be close-ish to my question, although it's not exactly a 'career change' as such...but anyway. Basically, I have a general Business degree [specialising in Accountancy] and also a H. Dip in Applied Computers.

Employment opportunities are slim pickings at the moment as everyone knows, and the thought of studying to become a qualified Accountant with either the CAI/ACCA has crossed my mind this week. I've always been interested in fully qualifying in this field to be honest. So, I have browsed the net a bit and see that it would take approximately 3.5 years of doing CAP 1's, CAP 2's, etc. in order to qualify...but to my knowledge most people who undertake these exams are currently employed by say the "Big 4" or something and then attend lectures at the weekends, get study leave, etc.

I am wondering can you actually do these exams without working with a "Big 4" company so to speak. As in, do it full-time. I haven't found work since graduating from college last year. Obviously, I am aware that I will have to pay for the fees and stuff myself doing it this way, but what I'm asking is do people do these exams without working with a firm? Is it allowed even?

It's more normal to do this with ACCA, but the CAI have a new path for those not yet in accounting. CPA would also allow this route.

Only the traditional CAI route requires work in a firm.

ianuss

DGM wrote: »

Hi,

Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems to be close-ish to my question, although it's not exactly a 'career change' as such...but anyway. Basically, I have a general Business degree [specialising in Accountancy] and also a H. Dip in Applied Computers.

Employment opportunities are slim pickings at the moment as everyone knows, and the thought of studying to become a qualified Accountant with either the CAI/ACCA has crossed my mind this week. I've always been interested in fully qualifying in this field to be honest. So, I have browsed the net a bit and see that it would take approximately 3.5 years of doing CAP 1's, CAP 2's, etc. in order to qualify...but to my knowledge most people who undertake these exams are currently employed by say the "Big 4" or something and then attend lectures at the weekends, get study leave, etc.

I am wondering can you actually do these exams without working with a "Big 4" company so to speak. As in, do it full-time. I haven't found work since graduating from college last year. Obviously, I am aware that I will have to pay for the fees and stuff myself doing it this way, but what I'm asking is do people do these exams without working with a firm? Is it allowed even?

Yon can with ACCA. There's no training contract - you just sit the exams. You'll still need 3 years work experience to qualify though.....not sure if your previous work experience would count towards it.

edit; sorry, smcgiff just beat me to it.

DGM

Cheers for the response smcgiff. And would many people do it this way do you know? Does the 3.5 year timeframe still apply?

I appreciate any info you provide.

DGM

ianuss wrote: »

Yon can with ACCA. There's no training contract - you just sit the exams. You'll still need 3 years work experience to qualify though.....not sure if your previous work experience would count towards it.

edit; sorry, smcgiff just beat me to it.

O.K. Hmm, I don't have 3 years work experience unfortunately as I'm a recent graduate. I have 6 months as part of a work placement in an accounting role but obviously that won't cut it!

smcgiff

DGM wrote: »

Cheers for the response smcgiff. And would many people do it this way do you know? Does the 3.5 year timeframe still apply?

I appreciate any info you provide.

There used to be full time college courses preparing people for ACCA exams - less so now.

However, I'd say a good few would get a number of exams and then apply for starter positions in industry or practice.

The 3.5 timeframe is very CAI, most others are three years.

ianuss

I can only answer in respect of ACCA. And with them you have 10 years to complete 14 exams (you may get some exemptions but you'd need to contact them for details) with sittings in June and December. You can take a max of 4 exams per sitting.

You should contact them yourself - they have a Dublin office and any time I've rang them they've been very helpful.

DGM

ianuss wrote: »

I can only answer in respect of ACCA. And with them you have 10 years to complete 14 exams (you may get some exemptions but you'd need to contact them for details) with sittings in June and December. You can take a max of 4 exams per sitting.

You should contact them yourself - they have a Dublin office and any time I've rang them they've been very helpful.

Interesting. Like I said, this idea only came into my head this week so I'm not sure whether I'd go with ACC / CAI or whoever, but becoming qualified in this area seems very appealing.

Just to go back on a point you made earlier if you don't mind, where you said: "You'll still need 3 years work experience to qualify though". Do you mean I need to have 3 years already under my belt, or do you mean I could, for example, do the CAP's etc. and then gain 3 years experience somewhere and then be fully qualfied?

ianuss

DGM wrote: »

Interesting. Like I said, this idea only came into my head this week so I'm not sure whether I'd go with ACC / CAI or whoever, but becoming qualified in this area seems very appealing.

Just to go back on a point you made earlier if you don't mind, where you said: "You'll still need 3 years work experience to qualify though". Do you mean I need to have 3 years already under my belt, or do you mean I could, for example, do the CAP's etc. and then gain 3 years experience somewhere and then be fully qualfied?

Yes, with ACCA this is one way of gaining the qualification. It's what I'm doing myself. Once you finish your exams and got a job, you would need to get your PER (which is basically a work experience portfolio type thing) signed off by a fully qualified accountant.

Slasher

Just coming back to the original poster's question:

Why in the name of God would you want to do an accountancy qualification? There are literally hundreds of unemployed qualified accountants out there at the moment. And there will be more joining the dole queues in the coming months. Accountancy can be mind-numbingly boring.

The exams are very hard, and much harder than the Solicitor's exams. I never heard of any solicitors who sat their finals five or six times, but I know several accountants who did.

I do not know what you should try to do to get out of your predicament, but my advice is steer well clear of accountancy. Try to find a profession or a job for which there is or will be a demand in the future.

SBWife

Without exemptions you can do the ACCA exams in 2 years (8 sessions) and this allows room for 2 repeats. But you'd be taking 4 exams each time doable but no joke. A couple of exemptions and you could be finished by December 2012.

smcgiff

Slasher wrote: »

Try to find a profession or a job for which there is or will be a demand in the future.

What profession is coping better than accountancy?

As to being boring - the book-keeping side of things can become repetitive, but quite a number of accountants use the profession to move into other roles such as CEO and other management roles.

BTW, maybe those taking law/solicitor exams are smarter

DGM

DGM wrote: »

Hi,

Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems to be close-ish to my question, although it's not exactly a 'career change' as such...but anyway. Basically, I have a general Business degree [specialising in Accountancy] and also a H. Dip in Applied Computers.

Employment opportunities are slim pickings at the moment as everyone knows, and the thought of studying to become a qualified Accountant with either the CAI/ACCA has crossed my mind this week. I've always been interested in fully qualifying in this field to be honest. So, I've browsed the net a bit and saw that it'd take approximately 3.5 years of doing CAP 1's, CAP 2's, etc. in order to qualify. However, to my knowledge most people who undertake these exams are currently employed by either the "Big 4", a smaller practice or something and then attend lectures at the weekends, get study leave to sit exams, etc.

I'm basically wondering can you actually do these exams without simulatenously working with a company. I.e. Do it full-time as I haven't obtained work since graduating from college last year. Obviously, I am aware that I'll have to pay for the fees and stuff myself doing it this way, but what I'm asking is do people do these exams without working with a firm at the same time? Is it allowed even?

Have you considered doing a masters in accounting? This would get you many more exemptions and get you back into the milkround for this autumn. You would need to act on this soon.

loveacca

I would say go for it. If you end off with an accountancy and a legal qualification surely that will stand to you in any jobs market

ACCA is probably a bit more flexible for someone trying to work although CA have started a new course geared up for students in industry

gabbytheking

With a legal background speaking as a qualified accountant I would definitely go straight into tax as it is 100% Legislation and mixes very well with Law. Doing this would make you a very interesting prospect for both solicitors(You would be surprised how many small law firms who don't understand tax we did huge amount of work for solicitors last year re inheritance, stamp duty etc etc.) and taxation advisors alike. Top end tax advisors all go straight back to the legislation and debate with revenue re same. See http://www.taxireland.ie/default.aspx

If doing Accounting and considering going to america or aus in the future Chartered is the only way to go as there qualification is the best transferable qualification over there. See below for further details re this http://www.globalaccountingalliance.com/Alliancebodies1.html
Also if going to Aus big 4 offers huge advantages and will move you swiftly up the list unlike smaller firms who they don't know or trust . Being there done that!!

After both of these points consider also Liquidation and insolvency firms. Kavanagh Fennell and big 4 alike.

Personally if your after a handy life with good money I would go into the banks they will give you any exams you want and pay you handsomely at the same time. Plus there too big to fail If I wen't back again I would do this!! Accounting your talking 60-80 hours a week and terrible work. I know loads of accountants unemployed believe me. I took a stopgap job a year ago for 25k as a fully qualified accountant just to stay off the dole. For the time I was working there I was getting about 10> a hour!! Definitely not worth it going for accounting in my most humble and honest of opinions. Tax or Stateside!! At least if you work 80 hours in the states you get big bucks and a great lifestyle when not working!!

bigjohnny80

OP

There are a number of different things to consider

Accountancy can be boring and having studied lots of interesting things in law, I think you will find this. The exams themselves are interesting enough; its just that many people can fall into an uninteresting accountancy job afterwards. However having an accountancy qualification with your law one would be an asset to any company, plain and simple. Tax would certainly be an area to look at.

Lets assume you have decided to go for accountancy. I think if you could make a personal contact with one of the top 10 practice firms and go in and meet them, show your desire etc, that you would have little problem securing a contract. What you would get paid is an entirely different matter. Any firm worth their salt should be paying you in the higher end of the salary bracket for starting off. You could also look at getting straight into industry/ financial services but it will be tough I think.

I think you should consider doing the ACCA’s, they seem to be the best fit for you – ie mature student/ not restricted to training contract/ option to do the tax exams later/ possibly a better salary starting off compared to the ICAI training contract.

Look around at the all different bodies websites, they all have lots of resources to guide your decision. The main ones are ICAI, ACCA, CIMA, CIPFA. I think the ACCA or ICAI ones would suit you best IMO. But read all the websites as they’ll give you a flavour of the different ‘strands’ of accountancy you can pursue.

However I would say to examine yourself and see if you really actually want to do them or is this to get you out of a hole because as people have said, the accountancy market is pretty tough at the moment – especially for recent qualifieds (I should know!). There is downward pressure on wages, and companies are much choosier.

Theboinkmaster

Slasher wrote: »

Just coming back to the original poster's question:

Why in the name of God would you want to do an accountancy qualification? There are literally hundreds of unemployed qualified accountants out there at the moment. And there will be more joining the dole queues in the coming months. Accountancy can be mind-numbingly boring.

The exams are very hard, and much harder than the Solicitor's exams. I never heard of any solicitors who sat their finals five or six times, but I know several accountants who did.

I do not know what you should try to do to get out of your predicament, but my advice is steer well clear of accountancy. Try to find a profession or a job for which there is or will be a demand in the future.

You obvisouly haven't a clue what you're talking about. I don't know any unemployed qualified accountants.

There's alway a need for accountants, recession or no recession. Whether a company makes €1Bn or loses it the accountants job remains the same and now actually there's a greater need as there's much more focus on the numbers now.

I agree some aspects of accounting can be boring - such as auditing. However once you reach more senior roles in industry it's a great career IMO and both challenging and enjoyable. Your day to day role becomes less number crunching and more more commercial & management-focused.

And the accountant exams are difficult yes, but not too hard. The 'accountants' you know who did their finals 5 or 6 times obviously picked the wrong career and too stupid or lazy to be an accountant. I've never heard anyone repeating any accountancy exam more than once.