Open plan living room with hall door in it?

CuppaCocoa

So myself and my partner are having an argument about opening up our hallway to incorporate the hall door into the living room. We've just bought an old terraced Victorian house which is quite small. We want to open up the living room and dining room and incorporate the hallway and stairs. My partner wants to put up a wall separating the hall door and part of the hall and stairs. I want to leave everything open. We'll be taking out the space under the stairs anyway and because the rooms are so small I want to try and get as much space/light into the house as possible.

Has anyone done this? I know from a heating point of view it will be harder to heat with an open plan stairs. We'll just have to make sure the house is well insulated! I don't think I'm going to win this argument so am looking for opinions! We will be hiring an architect and will obviously be guided by him. Just curious to see if anyone has done this in their home?

gman2k

You will be impacting on your safe route of escape from upstairs bedrooms if you open your hallway into the living room.
Living room and kitchens are high fire risk areas, and if a fire starts in this area you won't be able to escape down your stairs and out the door. (OK, I'm not sure of your house layout - just making general assumptions)
Your architect will advise you more re the legislation impact.

BryanF

lilybarlean wrote: »

just bought an old terraced Victorian house... open up the living room and dining room and incorporate the hallway and stairs... I know from a heating point of view it will be harder to heat with an open plan stairs. We'll just have to make sure the house is well insulated!

key issues highlighted

• I imagine this house will be listed, what your conservation budget?
• Insulation is only part of the issues you face, and with a listed build will be more difficult than a newer house (but not impossible to carry out)
• imo the draught at you feet will be your main problem, if you knock the partition between living room and front door. you'll be pumping heat upstairs if you don't manage to insulate and improve air-tightness in the house, which will prove difficult due to the existing features/details.

maybe a solution would be to try to lobby the front door independently.

some info you should note
http://www.igs.ie/Resources/Skills/Section-3.aspx (altering windows/door)

http://www.architecturefoundation.ie/2011/02/28/lecture-series-conserving-your-dublin-period-house/ (on-going lecture series)

paddy147

lilybarlean wrote: »

So myself and my partner are having an argument about opening up our hallway to incorporate the hall door into the living room. We've just bought an old terraced Victorian house which is quite small. We want to open up the living room and dining room and incorporate the hallway and stairs. My partner wants to put up a wall separating the hall door and part of the hall and stairs. I want to leave everything open. We'll be taking out the space under the stairs anyway and because the rooms are so small I want to try and get as much space/light into the house as possible.

Has anyone done this? I know from a heating point of view it will be harder to heat with an open plan stairs. We'll just have to make sure the house is well insulated! I don't think I'm going to win this argument so am looking for opinions! We will be hiring an architect and will obviously be guided by him. Just curious to see if anyone has done this in their home?

Exactly what I did with a big house renovation and extension project.

The architect and builder came up with some brilliant ideas between the both of them.

My old main front door is now an internal door and I have a lovely modern and insulated front porch with custom made triple glazed stained glass windows and a black Georgian 6 panel front security door.

The entire downstairs was opened right up to make one massive flowing space with recessed sliding doors bulit into the walls.The old staircase was too close to the old external door,so the staircase was ripped out and thrown in the skip and a new staircase was installed but moved back a further 800mm. to allow for plenty of access space in the event of an emergency and also to make a nice flowing space while walking downstairs to the lioving area.
The small and cramped landing that used to be upstairs is now gone and I have a large landing area now,which leads out to the new extension part of the build.Tons of space to walk around on the new landing area.The entire house is internally insulated with insulated board and the 2 attics are about to be spray foamed on Friday comming.

My planning application flew through 1st time around,and not a single person objected to any of it,my architect got it bang on with regards the house and how the extension blends into the house and internal layout of the house.The builder came up with a few cracking ideas (recessed sliding 4 oak panel doors)

Its all worked out a treat,so far.:)


Sit down with the partner,and chat about what you both would like and then give these thoughts to an architect and/or a good and propper builder.

Thats my advice.

muffler

paddy147 wrote: »

Sit down with the wife

:eek:

Going by the user name I'd say that is the wife female partner

BryanF

paddy147 wrote: »

insulated front porch

internally insulated with insulated board

Paddy, great solution with the front porch, how did you go with the windows you might PM me with manufacture if you replaced sash windows, thanks

I'm not keen on insulated board, there are solutions more appropriate for old buildings on the market.

paddy147

muffler wrote: »

:eek:

Going by the user name I'd say that is the wife female partner

Appoligies then,I only read the post,but just didnt notice the username and being female.

Well then,sit down with the boyfriend,male partner,hubby so.;)

paddy147

BryanF wrote: »

Paddy, great solution with the front porch, how did you go with the windows you might PM me with manufacture if you replaced sash windows, thanks

I'm not keen on insulated board, there are solutions more appropriate for old buildings on the market.

A friend of my architect,s does custom hand laid stained glass for a living.He lives in Dundalk and has his factory up there too,but travels nationwide to do the work.

Work is work to him,regardless of where the work is.

He hand made the tripple glazed stained glass units for me to suit the architects plans, and specifications.:)

antiskeptic

paddy147 wrote: »

Appoligies then,I only read the post,but just didnt notice the username and being female. Well then,sit down with the boyfriend,male partner,hubby so.;)

A female's partner need not be male.

antiskeptic

lilybarlean wrote: »

So myself and my partner are having an argument about opening up our hallway to incorporate the hall door into the living room. We've just bought an old terraced Victorian house which is quite small. We want to open up the living room and dining room and incorporate the hallway and stairs. My partner wants to put up a wall separating the hall door and part of the hall and stairs. I want to leave everything open. We'll be taking out the space under the stairs anyway and because the rooms are so small I want to try and get as much space/light into the house as possible.

Has anyone done this? I know from a heating point of view it will be harder to heat with an open plan stairs. We'll just have to make sure the house is well insulated! I don't think I'm going to win this argument so am looking for opinions! We will be hiring an architect and will obviously be guided by him. Just curious to see if anyone has done this in their home?

I've seen a few houses done both ways and would plump for even a small entrance hallway* separate from the living room for the following reasons:

1) There's a not very nice sense of opening your door right onto the street. Strangers knocking are effectively invited straight into your house

2) The more 'entrances' you add to your room, the more a sense of cosy-ness leaks away. By keeping a hall, you collapse two entrances (the front door (major entrance) + stairs(minor entrance) into one (the door from hall to living room (minor entrance)). I've a friend with a room into which there are 5 entrances (including the front door and stairs) and it's rendered useless as a room - it feels more like Grand Central Station.

3) +1 on fire issues

4) Insulation is but one issue. Air movement is another. You might be able to ensure 20C air temperature through good insulation - but when that air is on the move it will bring an unpleasant cooling effect. Open plan upstairs/downstairs maximizes the amount of air movement and things could feel quite draugthy.


*by entrance hallway, I mean a place to step into from the street with stair access and door into living room - not a hallway running from front door to rear of house. The latter, whilst desirable, is too costly spacewise in a confined house.


You could consider shifting the stairs so that it's bulk steals space from a less important area than the living room. By turning the stairs around a 180 degrees and shifting it right back towards the rear of the house you stop it cutting right through your living room. Granted you loose space elsewhere but that might be preferable to you.

You see it in this pic (taken looking from the front wall of the house) where the stairs comes in to the room from the rear of the house. You can't see the small entrance hallway to the right of the picture. You can see the advantage of gaining full house width in the living room. At cost somewhere else.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=1532&pictureid=9237

CuppaCocoa

Thanks for all the replies! We went to see a neighbour's house at the weekend to see what they had done to their house. They had incorporated their hallway into the sitting room but had added a door so that you still had a small patch of hallway. They also blocked off the stairs so that heat did not escape upstairs. It worked very well and we've decided to go for that. We're not interested in a porch as none of the houses on our terrace have them and it would spoil the look of the street. Our house isn't listed so no worries with conservation. Although we're not planning on building an extension at this time we could be interested at a later date. Would it be better for us to apply for it now while we have the architect or should we wait. Would it be cheaper for us to do it this way? We haven't decided on which architect to hire yet as we're still interviewing them!

Thanks from me and my missus!

BryanF

lilybarlean wrote: »

Although we're not planning on building an extension at this time we could be interested at a later date. Would it be better for us to apply for it now while we have the architect or should we wait. Would it be cheaper for us to do it this way?

depends ask yourself:

• do you really need an extension, you have just bought? your budget may dictate what you can do.
• opening up old houses will open up hidden costs, allow a substantial contingency min 20%
• how much work your getting done? ie is it a complete overhaul/retro-fit, then it might be worth doing it all in one go, you only have your home disturbed once
• some extensions require planning permission, so you may need to add 4 months to any time line (3months in council + 1 month for before and after inevitable delays
• your chosen Arch should advise you, but it sounds like you need to write a clear list of what you actually want

CuppaCocoa

BryanF wrote: »

depends ask yourself:

• do you really need an extension, you have just bought? your budget may dictate what you can do.
• opening up old houses will open up hidden costs, allow a substantial contingency min 20%
• how much work your getting done? ie is it a complete overhaul/retro-fit, then it might be worth doing it all in one go, you only have your home disturbed once
• some extensions require planning permission, so you may need to add 4 months to any time line (3months in council + 1 month for before and after inevitable delays
• your chosen Arch should advise you, but it sounds like you need to write a clear list of what you actually want

We're happy without the extension at the moment but maybe next year or the year after we might consider it? The waiting time for the planning permission won't matter in this case. There's not a lot we can do with our house as there's only a small back yard so it would mean pushing out the back room to the level of the existing kitchen extension. Nothing fancy. Again, our neighbours have done this and it looks fantastic. Amazing what you can do with such a small space!

paddy147

"Partner" then.

Carlow52

lilybarlean wrote: »

We're happy without the extension at the moment but maybe next year or the year after we might consider it? The waiting time for the planning permission won't matter in this case. There's not a lot we can do with our house as there's only a small back yard so it would mean pushing out the back room to the level of the existing kitchen extension. Nothing fancy. Again, our neighbours have done this and it looks fantastic. Amazing what you can do with such a small space!

see here re planning
http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/PlanningDevelopment/Planning/PlanningLeaflets/

3 concerns
does the existing kitch extn have planning.

if u complete the rectangle as ur neighbor have done will u still meet the 25sqm requirement as per the leaflet listed below sect 7
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1586,en.pdf

if u complete the rectangle are there any issue re manholes/sewage pipes etc?

If u are considering completing the rectangle maybe now is the time to put in the steel beam before u decorate