Thoughts on marathon training programs.

Patrick_K

Hi Folks,

I'm planning to run the Dublin marathon this year as my first marathon so am starting to think about what program to follow.

I've about 18 months running behind me and at the moment I'm concentrating on shorter stuff, trying to get my 10K time under 40 mins next.
I'm running ~25 miles per week at the moment, getting out 5 times usually.

I'd be interested to hear what other first timers followed and what your experiences were with it.
I have P+Ds Advanced Marathoning book but I'm not sure if maybe that's too advanced for me yet?

I plan to prepare well but I don't think I'm going to do extraordinarily high mileage. I'm guessing I'll max at ~50 miles or so.

Thanks
PK

menoscemo

Patrick_K wrote: »

I have P+Ds Advanced Marathoning book but I'm not sure if maybe that's too advanced for me yet?

If you are regualrly doing 25 miles a week, have been running 18 months and are targetting a sub 40 min 10k then i don't think the P&D programme will be too advanced for you. This time last year i was doing a similar mileage with a similar history and was only targetting a sub 44 min 10k. I followed the P&D programme (18 week <55 mpw) for DCM with great success.

My Only advice would be to gradually get your weekly mileage up between now and june when the 18 week programme would start. If you can get used to running 35-40 mpw in the month previous you should have no problems. Best of Luck.

MaroonTam

PK,

I would not follow P&D for a first marathon. I am on my second at the minute and hitting about the 55 miles a week, but I think some of P&D's sessions would still be a bit too much.

You have a good base behind you, and presumably following a plan to hit that 10k goal, so why not find a plan from the same source as the 10k?

I would also recommend that you don't overlook core and strength in your training. 7 weeks to go until Edinburgh, I am discovering this too late :eek:

Patrick_K

1 for and 1 against P+D so far so

Menoscemo - I think you're right, if I was to use it I'd need to up my mileage beforehand. From taking a look at it just now it goes straight into ~35 mile weeks so I'd certainly need to be well prepared or I'll break down as I have a history of injuries and need to nurse myself through at times.

Maroon Tam - I'm not really following a plan for the 10K as I didn't want to be a 'slave to a plan' for the whole year. I'm using bits and pieces from various sources and generally making it up as I go!
I do some core at the moment, pilates once/week but I do need to start doing some strengthening I think alright.

Thanks for the advice
PK

ecoli

Patrick_K wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I'm planning to run the Dublin marathon this year as my first marathon so am starting to think about what program to follow.

I've about 18 months running behind me and at the moment I'm concentrating on shorter stuff, trying to get my 10K time under 40 mins next.
I'm running ~25 miles per week at the moment, getting out 5 times usually.

I'd be interested to hear what other first timers followed and what your experiences were with it.
I have P+Ds Advanced Marathoning book but I'm not sure if maybe that's too advanced for me yet?

I plan to prepare well but I don't think I'm going to do extraordinarily high mileage. I'm guessing I'll max at ~50 miles or so.

Thanks
PK

My advice regardless of what plan you do is start building your mileage starting now (slowly). It will benefit you not only in your 10k quest but also in the long run in your marathon training. Most people focus too much on the 18 week plan as being the be all and end all but alot of it comes down to the mileage base you have put in over the previous months and years.
If you can start building now you will also be able to sustain the higher mileage for longer during your marathon specific training and decrease the risk of injury by ramping up your mileage to quickly

Patrick_K

ecoli wrote: »

My advice regardless of what plan you do is start building your mileage starting now (slowly). It will benefit you not only in your 10k quest but also in the long run in your marathon training. Most people focus too much on the 18 week plan as being the be all and end all but alot of it comes down to the mileage base you have put in over the previous months and years.
If you can start building now you will also be able to sustain the higher mileage for longer during your marathon specific training and decrease the risk of injury by ramping up your mileage to quickly

Thanks ecoli, that sounds like very good advice.
Consider it done (slowly).

RayCun

I agree with ecoli - start building up the miles now. Whatever programme you follow, the first few weeks of marathon training should feel easy enough.

I've been running about 18 months, and I'm planning to follow P&D. (Won't be running 10k under 40 minutes this year though!) Are there any particular sessions that you're worried by, or is it just the mileage?

Woddle

Yes your suppose to go around and soak in the athmosphere and enjoy the experience of your first marathon but if you already have some sort of a base and are following even 80% of what P&D prescribe your going to be very well prepared and this will only increase your chances of good first marathon.
If your already looking at a realistic sub 40 10k well then you'll be more than able for any of the sessions in the P&D schedule but what the lads have said already is get the mileage up so you can smoothly run into the schedule.
Aim high.

opus

I'm following the 12 week P&D program at the moment for my 3rd marathon, will be able to report in a week & a half how it went in fact!

There's certainly no messing with it as the first week it has you doing a 13m run with 8m at PMP. Certainly not one to start with but you sound like you've got the miles under your belt to cope with it especially if you build up your mileage a bit beforehand. I had a look back at my speadsheet & I was running 40-50 miles per week beforehand in Dec with a drop to 30ish during Xmas & the New Year so that gives you an idea where I was starting out with it.

Clearlier

5 runs a week for 25 miles and you're aiming for sub-40 10k suggests to me that you're biggest challenge will be running the recovery runs slowly enough. The second challenge will be to develop a long run.

You just won't have any difficulty with the P&D up to 55mile plan especially if you gradually build mileage between now and June. As a simple guide to how to get there I'd suggest structuring your training to something like the first two weeks of the P&D plan replacing one of the easy days each week with a recovery run so that you're running 5 days a week like you are now. Routine is the key, even if you're only going out for 2 or 3 miles on your recovery runs initially it'll pay off in the end. You have plenty of time so move there gradually. Adding 2 miles per week will have you somewhere around the 40 mark by the start of the plan which is well ahead of what the plan calls for. Enjoy it, be sensible and you'll make a big leap forward in your running.

Krusty_Clown

No harm in buying the P&D book, and looking through the programs. There's a lot of good advice in there, apart from the specifics of the marathon plans. It would be a good idea to look into a 10k program before you start looking into P&D, as it takes a fair amount of discipline for someone relatively new to running (I followed a similar path to your own). Also getting used to intervals, tempo sessions, PMP runs etc would serve you well. As Opus pointed out, the 12 week plan starts with 8 miles at marathon pace, so even if you're launching into the 18 week plan, best to make sure you don't fall at the first hurdle and are up to the challenge.

Patrick_K

Thanks again for all the replies, some very interesting stuff.

@RayCun - Yes it's mainly the volume the concerns me. I already do intervals, tempos, tempo intervals so thats OK but it's just the extent of it that makes me wonder.

@Woddle - it's only realistic once you've done and I haven't yet I have run 19:14 for 5K and 25:24 for 4 miles so I guess I'm in the ballpark but need to put in more speed endurance work.
Your other points are something I've been thinking about though, should I run my first marathon to just enjoy it or should I aim high. I'm guessing I'll go somewhere between the two. I'm not going to set myself a crazy target that will kill any enjoyment there might be in it, I'll leave that until subsequent attempts, fingers crossed.

@opus - I've been nowhere near the mileage you were doing before Christmas. The mileage I doing at the moment is about as high as I've done consistently. That's a concern for sure but there are ~12 weeks or so until I'd need to start an 18 week plan so I have time to sort that out (slowly).

@Clearier - yep going to start building it up something like that.

@Krusty - I think I'm going to do exactly as you suggest. I'm running a 10K on Sunday week after which I will have time to start an 8 week 10K plan which will lead me in perfectly and give me an idea of whether I should consider P+D or something a bit easier.

Does P+Ds Road Racing books have 10K plans that would take me up to ~35 miles per week?
I started training with my local club last night too, if I'm going to do this kind of mileage it would help to have someone to do it with no doubt, I generally run on my own.

Cheers again
PK

RayCun

Patrick_K wrote: »

Does P+Ds Road Racing books have 10K plans that would take me up to ~35 miles per week?

Yes, there's a 25-45 mpw plan (in Road racing for Serious Runners)

Patrick_K

RayCun wrote: »

Yes, there's a 25-45 mpw plan

Sounds perfect, I'll buy it now so. Thanks Ray.

opus

opus wrote: »

I'm following the 12 week P&D program at the moment for my 3rd marathon, will be able to report in a week & a half how it went in fact!

Just to report back I managed to take almost 18 mins off my previous best time earlier on today so a big thumbs up from me for P&D! Probably it was a combination of that along with this being my second year running so had a lot more mileage in my legs.

Will probably give it another go for Berlin in Sept but might try the next higher mileage program to see if it helps, a lot easier to do now that we're heading into Summer time.

liamo123

opus wrote: »

Just to report back I managed to take almost 18 mins off my previous best time earlier on today so a big thumbs up from me for P&D! Probably it was a combination of that along with this being my second year running so had a lot more mileage in my legs.

Will probably give it another go for Berlin in Sept but might try the next higher mileage program to see if it helps, a lot easier to do now that we're heading into Summer time.

Well done Opus....Sub 3 ; well impressed

Itziger

opus wrote: »

Just to report back I managed to take almost 18 mins off my previous best time earlier on today so a big thumbs up from me for P&D! Probably it was a combination of that along with this being my second year running so had a lot more mileage in my legs.

Will probably give it another go for Berlin in Sept but might try the next higher mileage program to see if it helps, a lot easier to do now that we're heading into Summer time.

Great running man. What a sweet time too. I presume you could see the clock ticking with a couple of hundred metres to go.

I'm guessing your JK (from my Alma Mater).

Patrick_K

Congrats Opus, very impressive!

opus

Itziger wrote: »

Great running man. What a sweet time too. I presume you could see the clock ticking with a couple of hundred metres to go.

I'm guessing your JK (from my Alma Mater).

Yup I sure could! Don't want to be hijacking this thread so I've stuck a post in the race reports thread.