New offer for Elderly Customers with fuel allowance

TechFreak

Hi all,

I contacted ESB Electric Ireland on Monday and I was told my elderly grandfather could avail of the new offer as he was on the fuel allowance.

Then I heard this clarified on RTE on Monday afternoon that elderly customers on fuel allowance who met the other criteria could avail of this.

My grandfather rang again today and so did i and we were both told he could avail of this until the end of June. However im hearing the opposite on the radio.

Can I get some clarification for him?

EI: Una

Hi TechFreak

I just got clarification on this for you - very straightforward: if you phone now, the discounts on electricity/gas can be applied.

1850 30 50 90

Regards,
Una

TechFreak

Thanks Una.

Just out of curiousity how did the confusion come about. Why im asking is a neighbours of my grandfather was told on the phone he could not avail of it was he was a free allowance customer and that was only yesterday.

Im just concerned that some elderly folk out their may have got the wrong info and may not contact ESB again to avail of this offer.

foggy_lad

TechFreak wrote: »

Thanks Una.

Just out of curiousity how did the confusion come about. Why im asking is a neighbours of my grandfather was told on the phone he could not avail of it was he was a free allowance customer and that was only yesterday.

Im just concerned that some elderly folk out their may have got the wrong info and may not contact ESB again to avail of this offer.

The ESB were originally telling people with free electricity allowance that they could not avail of the savings afaik. But changed their minds when the consumer association went public about them discriminating against the old and disabled.

EI: Una

Hi TechFreak/foggy_lad,

Our apologies - there has been some misunderstanding on the part of agents in relation to the Allowance. This has since been rectified.

For clarification: all customers currently in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance who contact us on 1850 30 50 90 will be offered a reduced tariff, suitable for their individual requirements.

We regret any confusion caused, and hope this brings clarity to the situation.

Regards,
Una

bk

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi TechFreak/foggy_lad,

Our apologies - there has been some misunderstanding on the part of agents in relation to the Allowance. This has since been rectified.

For clarification: all customers currently in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance who contact us on 1850 30 50 90 will be offered a reduced tariff, suitable for their individual requirements.

We regret any confusion caused, and hope this brings clarity to the situation.

I'm sorry, but no, that doesn't bring clarity to the situation.

What exactly does "reduced tariff" mean?

Very simple question with a yes or no answer:

Can Free Electricity Allowance customers receive the same tariffs as regular customers or not?

If no, then what are the tariffs available to FEA customers?

BTW Airtricity have no problem answering this question, you receive the full allowance on top of the Airtricity savings.

.BrianJM

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

For clarification: all customers currently in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance who contact us on 1850 30 50 90 will be offered a reduced tariff, suitable for their individual requirements.

We regret any confusion caused, and hope this brings clarity to the situation.

Regards,
Una

Clarity - getting there, however...
Assume lots of people with different needs.
You say,

...will be offered a reduced tariff, suitable for their individual requirements.

What are these 'reduced tariffs' for FEA recipients, and why the necessity to request a reduction or discount by 'phone?

You refer here to a 'reduced tariff' but elsewhere, including the web site, a discount is referenced. A reduction and a discount are not quite the same; are they?

Delta2113

"If you are in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance please call us on 1850 30 50 90 and we can tailor a price plan that works for you. Unfortunately our online switch application is not available to customers in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance at this time."

The above wording was removed from the ESB Electric Ireland website.

We need answers - exactly what price per kwh can FEA Customer's get?

Keep up all this vagueness and some kind of boycott will have to be arranged. I'm sick and tired of how companies get away with 'murder' in this Country.

.BrianJM

'Individual requirements': I'm still none the wiser.

I contacted David so I'm hoping he'll have something of substance to post.


I had the 'obligatory' chat by phone on Saturday morning and after confirming that I wished to avail of the basic discount the girl kept asking if I wanted an extra 4% for DD.

Several times she asked. Several times I said no with increasing emphasis.

So, 8% in place (I hope). Will have to wait 'til end of May for invoice.

I should have told her that my account is, and has been for a long time, in credit and should be worth at least another 5% discount!

Delta2113

Thanks Auld - Yin for all the info please keep us posted.

Electric Ireland: David

Hi all,

I hope this will bring full clarity to the situation.

bk wrote:

Very simple question with a yes or no answer:

Can Free Electricity Allowance customers receive the same tariffs as regular customers or not?

Yes. All customers in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance can apply for our new price plans, subject to the same Ts&Cs as every other existing/returning customer.

Existing customers who have remained with ESB Elecrtric Ireland can qualify for 8% off the unit price, plus additional discounts off total units used (4% for signing up by direct debit, and 2% for online billing).

Delta2113 wrote:

We need answers - exactly what price per kwh can FEA Customer's get?

8% off the standard 24hr unit rate = €0.1286 (excl. vat) per unit, or €0.1459 (incl. vat).

Thanks,

David.

Delta2113

"In response to an NCA call for clarification regarding the exclusion of consumers in receipt of the fuel allowance scheme from the new tariff plans, the ESB spokesman said there was a technical problem involved in passing on discounts to these customers, but he said the problem would be resolved by June at the latest." - Irish Times April 5

I would like to ask you David has this 'technical problem' now been fixed and also what is the reason why ESB EI FEA Customer's cant apply online?

Babs27

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

Hi all,

I hope this will bring full clarity to the situation.



Yes. All customers in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance can apply for our new price plans, subject to the same Ts&Cs as every other existing/returning customer.

Existing customers who have remained with ESB Elecrtric Ireland can qualify for 8% off the unit price, plus additional discounts off total units used (4% for signing up by direct debit, and 2% for online billing).



8% off the standard 24hr unit rate = €0.1286 (excl. vat) per unit, or €0.1459 (incl. vat).

Thanks,

David.

The Social welfare site explains the fuel allowance as that while you credit the units on the bill directly the social welfare office then credit you guys for these units at a standard ESB rate.... So if you guys will now have a mix of customers on different rates what rate are you getting credited back from social welfare? Basically are you going to make a profit from customers with the fuel allowance becuase you'll credit them 1 rate and recieve a higher rate in return from social welfare????

.BrianJM

Delta2113 wrote: »

I would like to ask you David has this 'technical problem' now been fixed and...

It would seem not unless the web site has not yet been updated.

Please Note

Please phone our Sales Team on 1850 30 50 90, instead of using this online form, if you

• - are in receipt of the Free Electricity Allowance
• ...

.BrianJM

Babs27 wrote: »

The Social welfare site explains the fuel allowance as that while you credit the units on the bill directly the social welfare office then credit you guys for these units at a standard ESB rate.... So if you guys will now have a mix of customers on different rates what rate are you getting credited back from social welfare? Basically are you going to make a profit from customers with the fuel allowance becuase you'll credit them 1 rate and recieve a higher rate in return from social welfare????

Interesting point.
Maybe Mr Kenny & Co. are aware of this and Ms Burton has already made the obligatory phonecall to claim maximum possible discounts for her department.

Electric Ireland: David

Hi Babs27,

Babs27 wrote:

So if you guys will now have a mix of customers on different rates what rate are you getting credited back from social welfare? Basically are you going to make a profit from customers with the fuel allowance becuase you'll credit them 1 rate and recieve a higher rate in return from social welfare????

No, we would certainly not profit from this.

ESB Electric Ireland customers who are in receipt of FEA and have it credited directly to their bill, will receive the allowance calculated at the appropriate unit rate. It is inevitable that we will have a mix of customers on different rates, but we have agreed procedures in place to ensure that the correct rates are being charged through the Department of Social Protection at all times.

Delta2113 wrote:

I would like to ask you David has this 'technical problem' now been fixed and also what is the reason why ESB EI FEA Customer's cant apply online?

The reason they can't apply online is part of the aforementioned technical issue. We are making good progress on resolving this and hope to have it up and running in the coming weeks. I can assure you that any FEA customers with ESB Electric Ireland who have applied for the new discounts will not be impacted negatively by this. They will receive their discounts in full.

Thanks,

David.

.BrianJM

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

The reason they can't apply online is part of the aforementioned technical issue.

Ah! the 'aforementioned technical issue' which is...
...'a technical problem'.?
(*_*)

number_1

So if a FEA customer goes with a reduced rate with ESB Electric Ireland, their allowance from the Department of Social Protection will be reduced by €30.72 per year (2400 units * 16 cent * 8% discount)?

Does that mean that any FEA customer using less than 2759 units per year would be better off on Bord Gáis' 13% discount rate (direct debit with ebilling) as the full allowance would be paid directly into their bank account?

.BrianJM

number_1 wrote: »

So if a FEA customer goes with a reduced rate with ESB Electric Ireland, their allowance from the Department of Social Protection will be reduced by €30.72 per year (2400 units * 16 cent * 8% discount)?

Does that mean that any FEA customer using less than 2759 units per year would be better off on Bord Gáis' 13% discount rate (direct debit with ebilling)...

If FEA customers use DD & ebilling then they can get 14%.

...as the full allowance would be paid directly into their bank account?

???

number_1

Auld-Yin wrote: »

If FEA customers use DD & ebilling then they can get 14%.

No they don't, they get 13%. It's all detailed here: https://www.thebigswitch.ie/savings.htm (click on detailed tariff view)

Bord Gáis dual fuel customers paying by direct debit are given a 14% discount on their electricity rates.

Regarding your three question marks - what are you actually asking?

.BrianJM

number_1 wrote: »

No they don't, they get 13%. It's all detailed here: https://www.thebigswitch.ie/savings.htm (click on detailed tariff view)

ESB FEA customers can avail of up to 14%. (More for dual fuel).

Regarding your three question marks - what are you actually asking?

What is the importance of the fuel allowance being paid directly into a bank account?
It's still got to be paid to Bord Gáis whereas ESB get the allowance paid directly.

number_1

Let me explain this as clearly as I can:

The free electricity allowance is €525.60 per year, inclusive of the standing charge, public service obligation levy and 2400 units at 16 cent/kWh.

If a FEA customer chooses to take up ESB's Supersaver rate it (the allowance) will be reduced by €30.72 per year. If they choose to pay by direct debit and receive ebills then their allowance will be reduced even further.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, if that FEA customer switches to another provider the full allowance will be paid directly to the customer by the Department of Social Protection and it is up to the customer to then pay their electricity bills with that money.

This means that a FEA customer with ESB using 2400 units per year will receive an allowance exactly equal to their bills from ESB.

A FEA customer with another provider using 2400 units per year will receive an allowance greater than the bills they receive from their supplier.

In the example provided of Bord Gáis' 13% discount rate, a FEA customer could use up to 2759 units per year and not receive bills in excess of their allowance.

Therefore, due to the mechanism in which the allowance is paid to ESB, a 14% discount off their rates can be less beneficial to a customer than the 13% discount offered by Bord Gáis provided they use less than 2759 units per year.

Does that explanation suffice?

.BrianJM

number_1 wrote: »

...Unless I'm very much mistaken, if that FEA customer switches to another provider the full allowance will be paid directly to the customer by the Department of Social Protection and it is up to the customer to then pay their electricity bills with that money...

Thanks.
I thought that was what you meant.

Babs27

number_1 wrote: »

Let me explain this as clearly as I can:

The free electricity allowance is €525.60 per year, inclusive of the standing charge, public service obligation levy and 2400 units at 16 cent/kWh.

If a FEA customer chooses to take up ESB's Supersaver rate it (the allowance) will be reduced by €30.72 per year. If they choose to pay by direct debit and receive ebills then their allowance will be reduced even further.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, if that FEA customer switches to another provider the full allowance will be paid directly to the customer by the Department of Social Protection and it is up to the customer to then pay their electricity bills with that money.

This means that a FEA customer with ESB using 2400 units per year will receive an allowance exactly equal to their bills from ESB.

A FEA customer with another provider using 2400 units per year will receive an allowance greater than the bills they receive from their supplier.

In the example provided of Bord Gáis' 13% discount rate, a FEA customer could use up to 2759 units per year and not receive bills in excess of their allowance.

Therefore, due to the mechanism in which the allowance is paid to ESB, a 14% discount off their rates can be less beneficial to a customer than the 13% discount offered by Bord Gáis provided they use less than 2759 units per year.

Does that explanation suffice?

Thats a great point...basically you're not getting any more units at a discount but when you go over your allowance with the ESB you'll then pay a cheaper rate.

But if you go with either Bord Gais or Airtricity you get the full allowance in cash through your payments so it equates to more free units. When you go over your allowance you may a % more but chances are you'll still save more by going with another supplier in the long run.

The only down point is that you'd need to be happy to pay your bill with the other supplier and then get your allowance so afford to be out of pocket for a few weeks which not many people can afford.

You'd think the social welfare office would sort that out for suppliers...its tax payers money and their paying more than they need too. If they'd save 30e even on 100,000 people thats over 3million saved for them in a year.

.BrianJM

Clarification please.
Does Welfare pay the allowance after the bill is issued?

If yes, then surely the amount paid would be based on a customer usage statement from Bord G.

If no, then suppose you signed up at a rate yielding an allowance of €80.00 and then start a DD & e-billing without informing Welfare you are then effectively claiming for more than your entitlement.

I think they call that fraud!

Delta2113

They should stop treating ESB Electric Ireland differently to Bord Gais and Airtricity and have it the same that you get paid directly into bank account. After all they have to stop using ESB in the name yet are still treated differently by the Government.

I'm afraid to change my Mother's ESB rate in the same way that i did not switch her to Bord Gais or Airtricity. I take it she would not still get €56.40 free allowance units if she went to supersaver?
It's all so complicated in this Country - madness.

Babs27

Auld-Yin wrote: »

Clarification please.
Does Welfare pay the allowance after the bill is issued?

If yes, then surely the amount paid would be based on a customer usage statement from Bord G.

If no, then suppose you signed up at a rate yielding an allowance of €80.00 and then start a DD & e-billing without informing Welfare you are then effectively claiming for more than your entitlement.

I think they call that fraud!

Does Welfare pay the allowance after the bill is isued: If your with Bord Gais or Airtricity Yes, well in practice yes, you get your allowance everyone 2 months as an extra payment in your normal payments but your bill could have come from Airtricity or Bord Gais any time..their bill times are thier own and not lined up to social in anyway. Not to any fault of bord gais or airtricity, its the social office who is only dealing with 1 supplier.

No the payment is the standard esb rate. This is why we're questioning it now... it doesn't seem fair for customers to be treated differently when they choose to change and authomatically puts the other companies at a disadvantage, even if as a customer you benifit..slightly

I queried this at lenght for my parents earlier this year as I wanted then to get the discount, they haven't got the fuel allowance for oap's so was wondering how it all worked. In the end i had them stay with esb cause it was too much hassle and they weren't going much over what their allowance will be.

Babs27

Delta2113 wrote: »

They should stop treating ESB Electric Ireland differently to Bord Gais and Airtricity and have it the same that you get paid directly into bank account. After all they have to stop using ESB in the name yet are still treated differently by the Government.

I'm afraid to change my Mother's ESB rate in the same way that i did not switch her to Bord Gais or Airtricity. I take it she would not still get €56.40 free allowance units if she went to supersaver?
It's all so complicated in this Country - madness.

You're right, it should work the same regardless. Have a look at your mums bills from last year and see if she went much over her allowance in the summer months last year..if not then that gives you time to decide.

Basically it looks like if you leave her account at esb and move to another company she'll save more but she'd have to see when her payments are and then ask the company to only send her bills after the payment comes in...so if the payment was the middle of the month get them to send the bills the end of the month so she can pay it straight off her bill before paying whats left by direct debit.

I'm with one of the 'others' and had them change the bill to around payday and they changed it handy enough

.BrianJM

Babs27 wrote: »

...Not to any fault of bord gais or airtricity, its the social office who is only dealing with 1 supplier.

I would have thought it would have been more efficient and/or cheaper to make bulk payments to the services concerned.
I wonder who's to blame, however that is not within the remit of this thread.

No the payment is the standard esb rate. This is why we're questioning it now... it doesn't seem fair for customers to be treated differently when they choose to change and authomatically puts the other companies at a disadvantage, even if as a customer you benifit..slightly.

So, Welfare give some people 16cent to pay for a unit costing 14.4cent, or less.

Catalpa1

Very interesting thread,
Just a few comments, the suggestion seems to be that most recipients of the allowance should be moved towards a direct payment i.e they would get their payment in either a cheque or bank transfer. The problem with this for some of those who receive the allowance because of their age is that their utility bill will appear to their eyes huge. I know that you can quite rightly say that they are getting their allowance and indeed the assertion here is that they are getting over paid. But to some elderly (by no means all) they get a bill for say €10 from the ESB they move to Airtricity Bord Gais and the bill is €90 yes they get their €80 odd euro allowance but some people would not make the connection.I do some voluntary work with a charity and can tell you of some elderly in particular who moved straight back to ESB and others who when they were told that the allowance would not appear on their bill said thanks but no thanks.
So I think there are two issues, ALL suppliers should off either a direct payment option OR the allowance shown on the bill. The second issue is the suggestion that the Dept were paying the old ESB price for those customers who were now getting a cheaper rate from Airtricity/BGE.
I would think that NONE of the utilities did anything wrong nor did the customers the suggestion here seems to be that the Dept overpaid. I dont think you could call it fraud, in a country that saw a managing director of a failed bank get €3m in a payoff this is small beer assumng that (a) the assertions here are correct and (b) the dept can now work out that they pay 400x 15c (or whatever the relevant tariff is) the problem I suspect is that the amount of computer time from the Depts point of view to calculate that Cust A is with Airtricity who charge x Cust B is with ESB and is charge y and Cust C is with Bord Gais who charge Z and remember the offers from ALL suppliers tend to last 12 months so while customer may be charged say 15.4c after 12 months this might rise to 15.8c which would mean the Dept would have to track every price change by All Electricity and probably gas suppliers. This could end up costing WAY more that the monies involced only IMHO

number_1

Auld-Yin wrote: »

So, Welfare give some people 16cent to pay for a unit costing 14.4cent, or less.

Absolutely not. They are given an electricity allowance of €525.60 per year, and they then pay that towards their bills.

What you are suggesting above is that people on the dole who stop shopping in Tesco and start shopping in Aldi are committing fraud because they are receiving the same income to spend on lower outgoings. That argument is fundamentally flawed.

The injustice here is that ESB EI customers are not paid the allowance directly, with them then paying their electricity bills with that money. Customers who attempt to be frugal with their money are then punished for trying to save money by having a reduction in their allowance, possibly eliminating all the savings they made and giving them no incentive to try and save money in the first place!!

.BrianJM

number_1 wrote: »

The injustice here is that ESB EI customers are not paid the allowance directly, with them then paying their electricity bills with that money.

I think many people would prefer some peace of mind by knowing that standard charges, levies and at least 400 units are taken care of every two months?
~~~

Customers who attempt to be frugal with their money are then punished for trying to save money by having a reduction in their allowance, possibly eliminating all the savings they made and giving them no incentive to try and save money in the first place!!

The allowance is for standard charges, levies and 2,400 units per year.

It has not been reduced.

Priori

Catalpa1 wrote:

I do some voluntary work with a charity and can tell you of some elderly in particular who moved straight back to ESB and others who when they were told that the allowance would not appear on their bill said thanks but no thanks.

Auld-Yin wrote: »

I think many people would prefer some peace of mind by knowing that standard charges, levies and at least 400 units are taken care of every two months?

+1

ESB presumably incorporate the FEA into the bill to keep customers happy; they appear to know old folk pretty well! My nan for one would be very distressed if her FEA wasn't clearly visible on the bill.

chasm

i think before anyone rushes off to a different provider they should be aware that the money being paid into your account is not as great as it sounds, and you would need to look into it a bit more.

The allowance paid to customers into their bank account is €525.60 per year, the problem is this covers "NORMAL standing charges" ie urban, so if you are on a higher standing charge, like my parents, who live in the sticks you would not be making a gain at all, as i doubt the overall saving on unit price would cover the additional amount needed to pay the difference in the standing charge. It may be worth checking this out before changing provider on the assumption that you are making a few euros

I don't think it is an injustice that ESB EI customers are not paid the allowance directly, if anything i think the Govt need to get their act together and all providers should be paid directly. The allowance is for 2400 units, normal standing charge and pso levy, and if their is a saving to be made on the cost of electricity i feel that saving should be made on behalf of the govt as it is the govt that is footing the bulk of the bill. I don't believe anyone should be making money out of the allowance, the govt should only be paying what is being charged imo.

Delta2113

"We are making good progress on resolving this and hope to have it up and running in the coming weeks." - David 15/04/11

You still cant switch online for FEA Customer's.

EI: Una

Hi Delta2113,

The reason FEA customers are required to sign up for reduced price plans via an ESB Electric Ireland advisor at our contact centre is a technical complexity on our system, so unfortunately it is simply not doable currently via the web.

In order to guarantee any FEA customer maintains their free unit allowance, it is required that an advisor access the customer account to ensure their FEA entitlements remain intact during the price plan change-over, and that they set the customer up in a specific way that avoids the risk of the FEA allowance being removed.

Regards,
Una

Hulahoop09

I had a brief look at your comments and Im just looking to confirm if my interpretation is correct. Is what you are saying is that if someone on FEA switches to a reduced units rate in turn their FEA will be reduced accordingly, so their overall saving will be in the units being charged outside of their allowance being used, which from sept 2011 will be 1800 units? Has this always been the case ie when esb ei charges were lower a few years back the FEA reflected this also?

EI: Una

Hi Hulahoop09

The reduced unit rates of our price plans do not affect the FEA allowance.

Regards
Una

Delta2113

My Mother has switched to a plan - she told me the girl never said supersaver but My Mother kept repeating to the girl so i get 8% plus 4% for direct debit and then extra 2% and she said yes.
The girl said it wont show you a free allowance but it will say special gratis i think she said.
Could a ESB Electric Rep elaborate so when I check her next bill (which will only be online - no problem) I will be able to understand it.

EI: Una

Hi Delta2113

The second page of a FEA bill, towards the end, details the FEA (there are two lines) and there is also a line "Ex gratia payment" referring to whatever discount(s) the customer has availed of.

Regards,
Una

Delta2113

Am I correct in thinking once you register for ESB online you are automatically put on online billing as well?

EI: Una

You would not be automatically registered for online billing, you would need to select it.

Una

Delta2113

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

You would not be automatically registered for online billing, you would need to select it.

Una

- Select what?

- However in my first e-mail from EI it said:-


"Please remember: you have chosen to manage your account online and so
you will no longer receive your energy bills by post."

I cant see anything to select and I cant find it saying in a/c details I'm on online billing. I can find the direct debit details and even my meter is in the kitchen but not that i am on online billing.

I just dont want to miss the 2%

Delta2113

How billing works online

Once you sign up to view and pay your bills online, we will discontinue your paper bill and instead email you when your bill has issued and is ready to view online.
The online bill will be an exact copy of the paper bill, and you can file it electronically or print it if required.


www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/contact_us/will_i_still_receive_a_paper_bill.jsp

The more I check this out, I think your wrong Una? It's certainly not clear.

EI: Una

Hi Delta2113,

Just to clarify, when you sign up for online billing at home, the discount for online billing (2%) is not automatically added to your account.

Our advisors manually add the discount in our system if it is selected over the phone or if you have switched your entire price plan online, however, if you PM your details I can have this updated for you, or if you prefer you can contact our advisors at 1850 30 50 90.

Apologies for any confusion and I hope this information helps.

Regards,
Una