Owning cheap luxo saloons?

af_thefragile

I've been seeing a lot of cars like old BMW 5series and Merc CLKs on sale for fairly cheap.

Like these:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2023621
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1989583
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1949832
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2002660

They've usually got a lot of mileage on them but I love the old E39 5series and also quite like the Merc CLK.

You think its a good idea buying these cars for this price and with these many miles on them??

ottostreet

I'd go for the 5 series everytime, my mother had a CLK230 and I thought it very...uninspiring. Very wallowy to drive as well.

voxpop

They are cheap to buy but the parts and upkeep can be highish compared to a 1.6 focus.
Also 520 with an auto box is gonna be slow and thirsty and no chrome

ottostreet

voxpop wrote: »

They are cheap to buy but the parts and upkeep can be highish compared to a 1.6 focus.
Also 520 with an auto box is gonna be slow and thirsty and no chrome

no chrome is a good thing!

but yeah, id be getting a 523 at minimum. I've never found parts for older BMWs expensive to get, I use a mixture of Micksgarage and GSF car parts, and have always found the upkeep very reasonable.

mike65

voxpop wrote: »

They are cheap to buy but the parts and upkeep can be highish compared to a 1.6 focus.
Also 520 with an auto box is gonna be slow and thirsty and no chrome

The costs of maintaining a barge are almost entirely dependent on just three things

1 - the cars condition when you buy it
2 - where you source parts from
3 - who does the work.

If its basicly sound and you buy replacement parts from independent/specalist suppliers/breakers you can run a luxo-barge for a modest sum. These days its car tax and fuel that are the biggest hits to the wallet.

Oh avoid that Merc, its a hairdressers model and built when the company was at sixes and sevens regarding build quality.

garhjw

friend of mine has a clk over 10 years now and never had any trouble with it, just regular maintenance...

x in the city

if you are buying a 520i, you need a sport model and manual

anything else is a waste... but you wont get one like that for 3 grand

af_thefragile

Well, its a big car so I'ld say its more for relaxing motorway miles than country lane blasts so the speed issue shouldn't be much of a bother.

Still do you think 140k miles is a lot for these cars? How long do the engines last on these things??


Here's a 523i with 86k miles for only 2300eur...
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1853807

This one looks very clean:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1977761


Would it be wise to buy something like this consider how much of a car you're getting for so little price...

E39MSport

Neither are barges imo.

That's the first time I've heard an E39 referred to as old

af_thefragile

E39MSport wrote: »

Neither are barges imo.

That's the first time I've heard an E39 referred to as old

Well its two models old now... Still I think its the best looking 5 series so far!!

ShadowHearth

mike65 wrote: »

The costs of maintaining a barge are almost entirely dependent on just three things

1 - the cars condition when you buy it
2 - where you source parts from
3 - who does the work.

If its basicly sound and you buy replacement parts from independent/specailist suppliers/breakers you can run a luxo-brage for a modest sum. These days its car tax and fuel that are the biggest hits to the wallet.

Oh avoid that Merc, its a hairdressers model and built when the company was at sixes and sevens regarding build quality.

Hairdresser car... Here we f..... Go again...

I owned clk and own mx5 now, I should be best freaking hairdresser in munster so...

Op, I had clk, I loved all about it, but it had 1 trouble I could not live with - I was stupid enough to buy one when I was 22... It's lovely car, but I needed to get it when I am in 30s... Getting parts can be dodgy: you cam get simple maintance items from motorfactors: brake pads/discs, filters, bushings etc, but if you will need something like cat - 1.2k eu... Mist of main bigger stuff you got to go to dealer, and that means bending over the counter and taking it in as a big boy!

Luxo barges are not as bad to run, as long as you get clean one. The biggest problem is this country. Why? Well, because on top of your lovely fuel bill, you will be paying idiotic tax which moist of the time cost as much as car it self...

Guy:Incognito

Only looked at the first one so far and it's the 2nd car posted on here in the last few days where the seller has "cleverly" covered the reg in the pictures while also giving a closeup of the tax disc.:)

af_thefragile

Its 860eur to tax a BMW 523i.

If it does 30mpg, driving around 6000miles a year, you're spending about 200 gallons of petrol. Which at 1.5eur/litre comes upto around 1200eur.

So that's about 2000eur every year for tax and petrol. (For comparison my Puma costs me around 1200eur every year for tax and petrol).
If the car costs around 3000eur, the whole cost of maintaining the car would come upto around 13000eur.

Excluding any repairs, servicing and insurance costs.

Good deal???

voxpop

ottostreet wrote: »

I've never found parts for older BMWs expensive to get, I use a mixture of Micksgarage and GSF car parts.

Ok - maybe I should clarify a bit - it depends on the state of the car when he buys and what car he is coming from.

Coming from a 1.6 focus - parts and labour are gonna be expensive, not to mention tyres.

Example: if the car need a cooling system overhaul, rear balljoints and front control arms - thats the guts of a grand there. If it needs a new set of tyres, thats another 500-600.

People look at a car like a E39 for 2k and say its cheap - but most of the 2k ones have been neglected. I know, I bought a E39 for less than 2k - it was neglected

af_thefragile wrote: »

Its 860eur to tax a BMW 523i.

Eh its 935 a year - its is a 2.5ltr

af_thefragile

^What do you think would be a good price to get at a E39 535i in a good nick?

I used to think luxo cars would be well looked after as they're expensive cars.

Like if I had spent 50-60 grand on a car, I would look after it everyday and treat it with a lot of care getting it serviced regularly and making sure all the parts are in good nick...

Matt Simis

In many places a small CC 5 series would be considered a very average car. I had a 530i and I wouldnt call it luxurious (and with Auto not very fast).

Surely you should be looking a V8 7 Series and Audi A8/S8's? I mean the tax cap is 3.0 so anything more is taxed as 3.0 anyway.. and you are looking at 2.5litre engines??

voxpop

af_thefragile wrote: »

^What do you think would be a good price to get at a E39 535i in a good nick?

I used to think luxo cars would be well looked after as they're expensive cars.

Like if I had spent 50-60 grand on a car, I would look after it everyday and treat it with a lot of care getting it serviced regularly and making sure all the parts are in good nick...

They are looked after when new - but you are looking at buying a 9 year old or older car. Buying off and enthusiast is one way to sort of cover yourself(you will pay more though), the best way is to get a mechanic that knows bimmers to look over the car fully. There is alot of base spec cars that are being sold on cus some repairs need doing

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

I mean the tax cap is 3.0 so anything more is taxed as 3.0 anyway.. and you are looking at 2.5litre engines??

Difference between 2.5 and 3.0+ is a fair few quid. You'd tax a 2.0 on the difference.

af_thefragile

^Sorry I meant to type a 523i...

It'ld be pretty cool to get an E39 M5 but the insurance is going to be expensive and the petrol prices are getting expensive too so would need to find a compromise here.


Like I'm looking for a good replacement for my Puma either this summer or next summer.

I could get another small fast hatchback or something for 4-5k but a E39 looks very tempting and I also like the CLK because the interior looks like a very nice place to be...

Which is why I'ld like to know if it'ld be wise to spend my 4-5k on a BMW E39 or stick with something smaller... Especially in the long run. If I get something like this, I'ld like to keep it for 3-4years atleast to make sure I get good value out of it.

unkel

af_thefragile wrote: »

^What do you think would be a good price to get at a E39 535i in a good nick?

Now you're talking

The 535 and 540 use the M62 V8 engine. These engines usually have an easy life and last mega miles. The combination of the big torque V8 petrol engine, the steptronic gearbox and the agility of the E39 chassis make it a great all round saloon. I will own one, one day

RobAMerc

OP - the 520 will not be quick - a 523 will only be marginally quicker and a friend I had who owned both said it was significantly heavier on juice in the real world.

When it comes to big mileage - in my opinion and the view of a few lads I pal about with ( car nuts ) BMW's don't wear it as well as Mercs do - HOWEVER - Mercedes Benz went through a major cost cutting phase between 2000 and 2006 and anything build during this time is a bit hit or miss if you ask me.

My Da has a newer model CLK than what you are looking at. It's a 200 Kompressor - it's not quick its a bit thirsty and it drives in no way like a sports car. In my opinion any saloon BMW still feels more sporty than almost any Merc ( AMG aside ) - they both just are very different brands.

voxpop

e36 M3s are going cheap these days - seriously tempted.

af_thefragile

Drool.......
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2044292
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1719030

But something like this is more affordable:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2043968

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Now you're talking

The 535 and 540 use the M62 V8 engine. These engines usually have an easy life and last mega miles. The combination of the big torque V8 petrol engine, the steptronic gearbox and the agility of the E39 chassis make it a great all round saloon. I will own one, one day

Yeah, I agree. The OP is talking about how an e39 M5 would be nice bar running costs (true), then IMO the 540i is a great alternative. Personally I would prefer a 6speed manual one.

Although, I would much prefer an old e34 540i 6speed:

VolvoMan

If you're looking at a CLK I reckon the 1st generation C70 would be a better bet: http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1900900

It's better looking, more comfortable and slightly less "middle aged old woman".

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Although, I would much prefer an old e34 540i 6speed

I owned an E34 530i (same V8 engine). Twas a 5sp auto though

The E34 is a lot more hard core to drive than the e39. I prefer the more modern car*





*it masks my limitations as a driver better

Del2005

af_thefragile wrote: »

Which is why I'ld like to know if it'ld be wise to spend my 4-5k on a BMW E39 or stick with something smaller... Especially in the long run. If I get something like this, I'ld like to keep it for 3-4years atleast to make sure I get good value out of it.

With the cars you're looking at, in that price range, you'll be looking at a lot of dogs to try and find a decent one. I've been looking at similar cars and the amount of cr@p out there is crazy. You either get a (F)SH or a clean car rarely both.

You'll need to do a lot of looking and need someone who knows cars to come with you when looking. Hopefully you'll be lucky.

Big Nasty

5'ers are not barges, 7'ers are!

If looking at a 5er the facelift 520 (2.2) puts out the same power as the pre facelift E39 523 (168bhp) which is just about adequate but not over-inspiring. The facelift 523 puts out 189bhp. Personally I would go for the facelift 523 as the difference in tax between the two is only €75 p.a. - less than a tank of fuel. Running costs are pretty similar.

I've found 5'ers to be reliable cars and parts are relatively cheap - MACE Auto Centre just off Kileen Rd are excellent and very reasonable for all German car parts. Both the 5er and 7er are known to suffer from suspension and overheating issues. If the car is freshly NCT'd suspension shouldn't be an issue and cooling parts are cheap as chips, e.g. thermostat, water pump, etc. However if overheating problems have been neglected that can be a whole motherload of trouble. Temp gauge on a BMW once warmed up should always be bang on in the middle. As always bring a good mechanic to check the car out.

Look around until you find exactly what you want - ever notice you can put two same model Bimmers side-by-side and one looks mank and the other savage? Hold out for the colour you want, nice set of alloys (preferably M-Pars), clear indicator lenses are a must and preferably M-Tech spec if you can. If you think you can afford it, go the extra mile for an 8-pot and put a permanent smile on your face!

My advice would be to stay well away from Audi's - fine cars but at the age you're looking at they're a complete and utter money pit.

Reloc8

af_thefragile wrote: »

^What do you think would be a good price to get at a E39 535i in a good nick?

I used to think luxo cars would be well looked after as they're expensive cars.

Like if I had spent 50-60 grand on a car, I would look after it everyday and treat it with a lot of care getting it serviced regularly and making sure all the parts are in good nick...

They probably were or at least might have been or rather should have been once - however they might also have been subject to the typical Irish car maintenance (couple of years of diligent care on a newly purchased car, or its a fleet car and gets regular maintenance, then 'ah sure its running grand' or it leaves the fleet and again ultimately ends up with someone who thinks 'ah sure its running grand'.

Its why people like cars relatively new second hand cars which have had one owner - there's a presumption that the person who bought it new would have had a sense of pride in ownership and looked after it as opposed to one owner from new then 4 more who paid an ever declining purchase price until it got to somebody who had no intention of or lacked the funds to look after it.

Del2005 wrote: »

...
You'll need to do a lot of looking and need someone who knows cars to come with you when looking. Hopefully you'll be lucky.

1000000% agree...do not put your hard earned wedge into one of these things without a thorough mechanical inspection from someone who knows what they're doing and is either a good friend, or you're paying them for their expertise.

And if you're paying them, get a written report from them.

You obviously can't expect at these prices that the car will get a 100% clean bill of health but you need some confirmation that its not a dog and a reasonable prediction of what you're going to be looking at as regards short to medium term maintenance.

Good luck with the search !

af_thefragile

What do you think of those AA's vehicle inspection for checking the car before buying it? Like its pricey at 600eur or something like that so would it be worth it?


I think I can only really afford something upto 5000eur if I'm going to buy something big like this as I'll need to consider the cost of tax, petrol, insurance, maintenance etc too which is going to be significantly higher than something of a smaller size.

It would be quite expensive to own such a car, especially if you're making the jump from a tiny little 1.4l coupe to a big 2.5l saloon... Something to consider...


My biggest concern is the >100000miles on the engine for many of these cars. Do you think this will affect the car?? Especially if you think of keeping the car for like a good few years doing around 6-7k miles a year...??

ottostreet

Wouldn't worry about the mileage on the BMW engines, I've 170k on mine (3.0 litre) and its perfect. My last one was the 1.9 M44 engine, and it had 170k when I sold it a year ago, and I know its still going strong two owners and at least a couple of thousand miles later.

BMW seem to be very good at engines!

Lord Nikon

this 7 series
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/735-I/201101200803046/advert?channel=CARS

af_thefragile

7 series is wayy too big for my likes also I'm not that old yet!!

Like even the 5 series is quite big but its just about as big as I'ld be comfortable with.

mondeo

neuromancer wrote: »

this 7 series
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/735-I/201101200803046/advert?channel=CARS

Nice yoke for under 6k. If you can put up with it's hideous looks that is. I'd be getting a diagnostic done on it's systems as it could be a nighmare if you dont.

Matt Simis

af_thefragile wrote: »

7 series is wayy too big for my likes also I'm not that old yet!!

Like even the 5 series is quite big but its just about as big as I'ld be comfortable with.

Im sure there are more "old" people in 5 series than 7. The difference in size is much less than you would think in the real world. I dont particularly like that era 7, but wow a lot of car for the price. Dont think you will find a V8 e60 priced similar.

ottostreet wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about the mileage on the BMW engines, I've 170k on mine (3.0 litre) and its perfect. My last one was the 1.9 M44 engine, and it had 170k when I sold it a year ago, and I know its still going strong two owners and at least a couple of thousand miles later.
BMW seem to be very good at engines!

I think all German car engines prove to endure mileage well. There was 160k on my Audi Allroad, 155k on my BMW 530i and is 176k on my Audi S8. Just 122k on my 850CSi though, its got a lot of miles to catch up. None of them are small, easy life engines either.

trellheim

Just came off two LS400s to a GS450h, barges are great because as someone says they are usually bulletproof with big engines. If you wait a few years most of the depreciation is done and you can pick up serious metal for a very low price.

next...wait for an affordable LS600h,
( mmm
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/LS600h/201114201874704/advert?channel=CARS

(weird mileage on it )
)

although I have to say the 450h is hilarious to drive and puts a smile on my face every time I sit in. 350 horses for very little money.

TestTransmission

af_thefragile wrote: »

7 series is wayy too big for my likes also I'm not that old yet!!

Like even the 5 series is quite big but its just about as big as I'ld be comfortable with.

I'm not being funny with you,but you've struggled to maintain a Ford Puma which would be a relatively inexpensive car to do so.

Have you factored in all the maintenance,insurance and tax costs to what you are currently paying?

af_thefragile

TestTransmission wrote: »

I'm not being funny with you,but you've struggled to maintain a Ford Puma which would be a relatively inexpensive car to do so.

Have you factored in all the maintenance,insurance and tax costs to what you are currently paying?

Though my Puma has turned out quite an expensive car to maintain with all the problems it had/has. It also doesn't do any good mpg. I think it barely does around 35mpg.

But yeah, I've been thinking of spending around 8000eur for the next car, when I get rid of the puma. And hence if I get something nice for around 4000eur, then I'll have another 4000eur to spend on maintenance, tax and the lot...

Which is why I'ld like to know how much it'ld cost to maintain something like those E39 523i...

Or would I be better off going for one of these:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1860235

ottostreet

Either one really, I'd probably go for the 3'er, but you can get far nicer examples than that for that money.

Alanstrainor

Just get a small fun hatch for 5 grand or there abouts. A corolla tsport comes to mind. 190bhp from a little hatch, cheap to run and maintain. Sorted.

Matt Simis

af_thefragile wrote: »

Which is why I'ld like to know how much it'ld cost to maintain something like those E39 523i...

Or would I be better off going for one of these:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1860235

If you really have that type of budget to spend on maintenence (4k) Id be looking at this:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1962465
V8 + e39 + cream leather + cheap to buy = win.
I dont see any appeal in a 523i and lower IMO, its "thing" is pretty much the smallest CC + 6pot, which isnt that special.
And bear in mind a well kept 540i could very well turn out to be cheaper to run than an unlucky or below average 523i (etc), as you have demonstrated with the Puma (which should be a buttons to run car).

af_thefragile

Matt Simis wrote: »

If you really have that type of budget to spend on maintenence (4k) Id be looking at this:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1962465
V8 + e39 + cream leather + cheap to buy = win.
I dont see any appeal in a 523i and lower IMO, its "thing" is pretty much the smallest CC + 6pot, which isnt that special.
And bear in mind a well kept 540i could very well turn out to be cheaper to run than an unlucky or below average 523i (etc), as you have demonstrated with the Puma (which should be a buttons to run car).

Well, I wanna keep the car for a good few years and so I don't wanna spend all the maintenance money in one year!! Like say I'ld like the cost of owning a 4000eur 523i to be the same as that of an 8000eur hatch or something over 2-3years.

Would there be much of a difference in the maintenance cost of a BMW 523i and a BMW 325i??

They cost around the same for the age of cars I'm looking at...



And I don't really want to get a hatch anymore. I've been doing a lot of motorway miles and spending long hours in the car. As much as I like the responsiveness and feel of my Puma on twisty country roads, I hate its uncomfortable seats and suspension which can't cope with any roads which aren't runway smooth. Also don't like how noisy it gets at speeds of over 60kmph. And its ruining my back!

Basically I'ld like to replace it with something that's comfy and a very nice relaxing place to be in. So if I'm doing long journeys on motorways or driving on rough roads or just driving back home after a long day, it's quiet and comfortable... And I'ld still like to have a bit of grunt in the engine to be fun but affordable at the same time.

Something like this maybe:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2057761
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1850003

Mr Benevolent

Why would you buy a 523 when a 525 costs the same to tax, has more power and the same fuel economy?

af_thefragile

Confab wrote: »

Why would you buy a 523 when a 525 costs the same to tax, has more power and the same fuel economy?

Yeah, wouldn't mind a 525...

I'ld love to own one of these actually:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/COUPE-AU/201114201927301/advert?channel=CARS

Its the best looking CL model imo. Especially with that pretty rear window!

Maybe someday after I get a good job and can afford to own and maintain one of these...

I don't get it why would someone buy a new 40grand car when they can get a much better car for 10grand and save the 30grand for insurance, tax, petrol and the lot...

ottostreet

af_thefragile wrote: »

Yeah, wouldn't mind a 525...

I'ld love to own one of these actually:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/COUPE-AU/201114201927301/advert?channel=CARS

Its the best looking CL model imo. Especially with that pretty rear window!

Maybe someday after I get a good job and can afford to own and maintain one of these...

I don't get it why would someone buy a new 40grand car when they can get a much better car for 10grand and save the 30grand for insurance, tax, petrol and the lot...

My girlfriends sisters both went off and bought new Mazdas for around 20k each around 3 years ago. Both cars are worth about 6-7k now.
I have absolutely no idea why people would buy new for the 'low tax', when you can buy a superior, older car for pennies by comparison, just because the tax is high. My own car is a 3 litre petrol, is pretty much as cheap as its ever going to get, and the tax is 1300 euro a year. How many years would I have to drive it before it cost the same as buying a new Mazda for the low tax?

Big Nasty

af_thefragile wrote: »

Yeah, wouldn't mind a 525...

I'ld love to own one of these actually:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/COUPE-AU/201114201927301/advert?channel=CARS

Its the best looking CL model imo. Especially with that pretty rear window!

Not a big Merc fan but that car is smokin'

ottostreet

Same, not a Merc fan, but that car is stunning. I think I'd prefer it if the interior was a little less....bright and not tan and woody, but the exterior is amazing....10k for that? it looks worth at least twice that.