Liability of repair work

buffalo

I had a LBS refuse to service my commute bike earlier today. Rear derailleur cable had snapped, just wanted it replaced in a hurry. My bike is old enough, downtube traction gearing, but she's a solid ride. They reasoned that if they provided any kind of service, even limited to replacing a gear cable, and something like the handlebars broke, they would be liable as the last professionals to 'touch' the bike. It being the age it is, they weren't willing to take that risk.

I know Hollingsworth suffered a suit after a repair on a tyre went wrong, but has anyone else encountered the above? I'd understand if they were repairing something in the region of the handlebars, but the idea astounds me that work on part A implies liability in the case of the failure of unconnected part B. Is there any legal basis for this? Maybe something similar for cars?

kona

buffalo wrote: »

I had a LBS refuse to service my commute bike earlier today. Rear derailleur cable had snapped, just wanted it replaced in a hurry. My bike is old enough, downtube traction gearing, but she's a solid ride. They reasoned that if they provided any kind of service, even limited to replacing a gear cable, and something like the handlebars broke, they would be liable as the last professionals to 'touch' the bike. It being the age it is, they weren't willing to take that risk.

I know Hollingsworth suffered a suit after a repair on a tyre went wrong, but has anyone else encountered the above? I'd understand if they were repairing something in the region of the handlebars, but the idea astounds me that work on part A implies liability in the case of the failure of unconnected part B. Is there any legal basis for this? Maybe something similar for cars?

Personally, I will point out EVERYTHING wrong with the bike to the customer. I will not work on the bike if its not going to leave the shop to a standard Im comfortable with. I.E Customer not willing to pay to fix the faults
In your opinion your bike may well be a "Solid Ride" but to the mechanic there was obviously glaring issues with it. Personally Im not losing my job or being charged with involuntary manslaughter if your bike breaks just as a bus goes by ( there always seems to be a bus nearby when a bike fails:rolleyes:).
Ive had parents argue with me about refusing to remove Brakes off BMX bikes for lil Johnny. :eek:

Go to another bike shop and see or replace it yourself.

Im not having a go at you, but the mentality of some people as regards repairs on bikes / cars etc is wrong. Look at the daily Dramatic failures of 10 year old cars in motors after they were serviced 2 months ago, and the finger pointed at the mechanic.
Im not putting my foot in it, a "favour" is only a favour to somepeople if everything works 100%

tomasrojo

A bike shop in Stillorgan (the one near Nimble Fingers; can't remember the name right now) refused to service my bike once, because it had obviously been in a crash. I had been away for months, and I think my younger brother might have been using my bike. Went to another shop and they did the service.

I suppose the first bike shop was doing the right thing, but I used that bike for another few years safely. I didn't know enough about bikes at the time to argue with anyone anyway.

EDIT: Stillorgan Cycles it was. Naturally. I remember them being a good shop. Their objections probably had some justification.

couldntthink

Happens in the motor trade all the time. Do something like rear brakes and few weeks later the engine goes bang. Customer tells their friends "my car's engine is f***ed, just spent 150 euro on it at such and such garage". customer and friends then bad mouth said garage and the two issues were unrelated. You can't win.

buffalo

kona wrote: »

Personally, I will point out EVERYTHING wrong with the bike to the customer. I will not work on the bike if its not going to leave the shop to a standard Im comfortable with.

In this case, he didn't point out any other faults, other than the age of the bike. The handlebars were an example he pulled off the top of his head (or at least that's the impression I got).

kona wrote: »

Go to another bike shop and see or replace it yourself.

Done. Will have to invest in a cable cutters.

kona wrote: »

Im not having a go at you, but the mentality of some people as regards repairs on bikes / cars etc is wrong. Look at the daily Dramatic failures of 10 year old cars in motors after they were serviced 2 months ago, and the finger pointed at the mechanic.
Im not putting my foot in it, a "favour" is only a favour to somepeople if everything works 100%

I understand the reluctance of the bike shop, but I'm wondering if there's any actual cases where the mechanic replaced the windscreen wipers, and was sued/held responsible when the brakes failed. That's how it appears to me.

kona

buffalo wrote: »

I understand the reluctance of the bike shop, but I'm wondering if there's any actual cases where the mechanic replaced the windscreen wipers, and was sued/held responsible when the brakes failed. That's how it appears to me.

I have no Idea, personally Im just covering my ass incase something happens, also your better off having somebody saying you refused to do work, then have them say you fixed their bike then they had a crash due to it failing, doesnt matter if you didnt touch the failed part, even instructed not to, people aint botherd with the facts like that.

The LBS should have really pointed out faults, IMO refusing work because the bike is old is just lazy, either that or he saw it and knew he didnt know how to fix it

A professional wouldnt do a job they cant stand over.

buffalo

couldntthink wrote: »

Happens in the motor trade all the time. Do something like rear brakes and few weeks later the engine goes bang. Customer tells their friends "my car's engine is f***ed, just spent 150 euro on it at such and such garage". customer and friends then bad mouth said garage and the two issues were unrelated. You can't win.

I'm the last person to badmouth without warrant. I even offered to sign a waiver on the spot.

Fact is, I wanted a quick job on my commute bike, and then I was going to drop in my road bike for a bigger service when I picked up the other one. Now they're not getting that custom, and I'll be more reluctant to see them in future in case they refuse again.

I don't particularly think the shop was at fault, more the litigious nature of some people. But I'd like to pin down if there's any actual basis for the shop's fear, or whether it's just being overly careful.

buffalo

kona wrote: »

A professional wouldnt do a job they cant stand over.

Want to replace a gear cable for me?

kenmc

buffalo wrote: »

Want to replace a gear cable for me?

Ah come on, it's not bloody rocket science. Bike tutor if you need it. but a gear cable is one of the easiest jobs you can do!

What shop was it by the way? (or at least tell us the area of the city)

buffalo

kenmc wrote: »

Ah come on, it's not bloody rocket science. Bike tutor if you need it. but a gear cable is one of the easiest jobs you can do!

No, it's not, and I generally try to do my own work. But those who know me personally on here know I have certain time commitments which mean I might not have half a hour during the week to sit down and have a go at it. One of the joys of having a commute bike is that I can attempt maintenance without potentially breaking my road bike

kenmc wrote: »

What shop was it by the way? (or at least tell us the area of the city)

City centre, which limits it to a certain number of shops.

doozerie

If the shop were able to point out specific and valid reasons why they considered the bike unsuitable for use, then their stance of not carrying out any repair work on it which wouldn't be sufficient to make it safe would be perfectly understandable. In fact, it would be a very strong recommendation for a bike shop if they were to take that stance as it would suggest they put safety and professionalism ahead of profit which is a standard that all bike shops should aspire to.

However, waving their hands about and coming out with the vague and slightly hysterical excuse that you describe is not professional, it sounds more like someone inventing a very poor excuse in order to avoid carrying out a job they don't want to do, either through laziness of because they don't consider it profitable enough to be worth it. Worse still, having categorised your bike as some kind of death trap they then pointed you in the direction of another bike shop - if they were professional they should be trying to discourage you from using the bike at all, not suggesting that you take it somewhere else where, if they really believe the views they've expressed about the condition of your bike, the standards of care must presumably be very poor if the other shop were to be willing to carry out the work regardless of the risk you are left facing.

I'm certain that there are good quality and professional bike mechanics working in some of the local bike shops out there, but in my experience they are very hard to find. The guy you spoke to in that bike shop is clearly not one of them, instead he is the kind of muppet that gets bike repair shops a bad name.

Chips Lovell

Is there anything else actually wrong with the bike other than it being old?

buffalo

el tonto wrote: »

Is there anything else actually wrong with the bike other than it being old?

There's some rust on the frame, which I haven't treated as part of my uglification. I've done 80km spins on her, without any ill effects (barring the front derailleur being pretty sticky). But as I said, he didn't point out anything specific, just a general "if anything happened, you could blame us".

Cookie_Monster

kona wrote: »

Ive had parents argue with me about refusing to remove Brakes off BMX bikes for lil Johnny. :eek:

1. Are brakes uncool now
2. Are some parent really that ****ing retarded

kona

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1. Are brakes uncool now

Apparantley so, I feel so old having brakes, I might remove them later and cycle with a smugness knowing im the coolest on the commute home.:cool:

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

. Are some parent really that ****ing retarded

Yup most definatley, no brakes coupled with a bike thats far far too big for the child, yea I can see, he can touch the ground, but hes around 2 years away from reaching the handlebars properly :rolleyes:

Some people cannot grasp the concept of their child actually having to reach the bars and be able to have sufficient leverage to pull the brakes (especially the POS ones found on the Cheap **** parents buy lil johnny).

All of my concerns are answerd with , ah sure hell grow into it........yea Im sure he will, would you buy him a car now too as he may not be able to reach the pedals and see over the wheel, but sure if hes gunna grow into it, its no big deal.

I feel sorry for the kids having such Chromosonally challenged parents.

And guess whose fault it is when lil johnny breaks his face when he cycles into a wall head first?

Parents. No its me.

****ing eejits.



EDIT: Another is cutting Seat Posts, people get very uppidy when I refuse to cut them for them, fair enough if they are a regular customer and I can keep an eye on the bike to make sure its not raised past where it should and damaging the seat tube.
But if its sombody I dont know and never seen the bike I will not do it, ever. Why? Because if your not smart enough to use a hacksaw yourself , your not smart enough to understand the risks, and are certainly dumb enough to raise the saddle up too much. Either that and they know the risks but want to pay me to take responsibility for their stupidity.

victorcarrera

I'm not a bike mechanic but I do have compulsory professional indemnity insurance.
This is probably what was on the mechanics mind at the time.
We live in a very litigious society which employs many non productive people whose only way of making a living is from the toils of others.
First there is the claim brigade.
Then Insurance companies and their employees regulated by guess who yes the financial regulator Ha Ha.
Then you have the white wigs who will add up to 10% charge to any claim. All of this and much of the H&S legislation just pushes some jobs into a loss making or non profit category.
OK in small doses but lately it has just got out of hand.
I wouldn't fault him for making a quick call and moving on to the next job.

briano

kona wrote: »

Another is cutting Seat Posts

OT, but I didn't even know people did this. What is it for? Weight weenisim?

Edit: Google knows the answer.

boege

This caught my eye as I negotiate contracts in work and the areas that takes most time to agree are the warranties, liabilities & indemnities provisions, as therein lies all the contract risk.

In the Hollingsworth the case shop was held liable as apparently they did not reseat a tyre properly even though the repairs were for spokes and brakes. If the shop repairs an old bike it may feel it has to ensure all other aspects of the bike are safe before releasing the repaired bike.

Insurance companies have a way of adjusting professional indemnity insurance cover in light of claims and a bike shop may not be covered for claims brought in relation to repairs of bikes older than a certian age. The exclusions in PI cover can be very surprising.

I have been advised by one shop that they cannot replace tubs as they are not insured - there was mention of previous claims.

You no longer buy insurance cover you buy a level of cover - beware the fine print!

Master and commander

buffalo wrote: »

having a commute bike is that I can attempt maintenance without potentially breaking my road bike

so you have a commute bike and a road bike, well what does the commute bike run on, railway tracks for bicycles???

buffalo

Master and commander wrote: »

so you have a commute bike and a road bike, well what does the commute bike run on, railway tracks for bicycles???

What an odd bump... my commute bike is actually a road bike too, but I refer to the bike I use for racing as my road bike. Sometimes I call it my shiny bike, and the other one my rusty bike.

kona

Master and commander wrote: »

so you have a commute bike and a road bike, well what does the commute bike run on, railway tracks for bicycles???

Commute bikes run red lights and go up and down kerbs, cycle on footpaths and generally display a reckless disregard for the Rules of the road.

Road Bikes, are highly tuned machines which give you license to cycle around wearing a full body condom.