daft report out

ei.sdraob · 05-04-2011 1:41pm #1

heads up the daft report is out
more falls yet again

does anyone know whatever happened to the plans for a national sales price registry?

mrgaa1 · 05-04-2011 2:08pm

this is the most important thing - the database of national prices as even though the report is very well written and makes sense the issue of actual house sale prices is very, very important. Housing market is very, very static as I believe a lot of people are waiting for some news on stability etc...
following on from that credit is the most important item affecting potential purchasers from buying for the first time or indeed upgrading/downgrading.
Its not rocket science to say if a house for sale at 200k sold at 195k, for example. so what if it sold for less at least we'd know the real price.

dan_d · 05-04-2011 2:17pm

Interesting.By complete coincidence I was just looking around Daft at houses in my own area to see if they've dropped further. They have but not by much - the overall obvious thing is that they're just not selling at all.

The one thing I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand is that where I live, in North County Dublin, the houses in the estates have plummeted in price.Like everywhere. And I literally mean they've dropped by 100,000eur +, depending on the estate, in the last year. Yet there are a load of detached houses also on the market, but they are for ludicrous prices. Still. This is a seaside town, but why there should be such a gaping hole between the price of a decent size 4 bed semi-d and a 4 bed dormer bungalow is a complete mystery to me.

Take these for example
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=536382
(this was on sale for the guts of 500,000eur about 18 months ago, I might add)

vs this

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

Now I know you're looking at a difference in square footage, but does that difference really merit the gulf in the prices??? It's unbelievable.And the first house is in a nice estate, so it's not the area that's dictating the price. That's the standard price for a 4 bed around here.

As far as I can see some estate agents still need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

fred252 · 05-04-2011 2:18pm

mrgaa1 wrote: »

this is the most important thing - the database of national prices as even though the report is very well written and makes sense the issue of actual house sale prices is very, very important. Housing market is very, very static as I believe a lot of people are waiting for some news on stability etc...
following on from that credit is the most important item affecting potential purchasers from buying for the first time or indeed upgrading/downgrading.
Its not rocket science to say if a house for sale at 200k sold at 195k, for example. so what if it sold for less at least we'd know the real price.

i assume that "etc" means until prices are reasonable

fred252 · 05-04-2011 2:23pm

dan_d wrote: »

Interesting.By complete coincidence I was just looking around Daft at houses in my own area to see if they've dropped further. They have but not by much - the overall obvious thing is that they're just not selling at all.

The one thing I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand is that where I live, in North County Dublin, the houses in the estates have plummeted in price.Like everywhere. And I literally mean they've dropped by 100,000eur +, depending on the estate, in the last year. Yet there are a load of detached houses also on the market, but they are for ludicrous prices. Still. This is a seaside town, but why there should be such a gaping hole between the price of a decent size 4 bed semi-d and a 4 bed dormer bungalow is a complete mystery to me.

Take these for example
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=536382
(this was on sale for the guts of 500,000eur about 18 months ago, I might add)

vs this

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

Now I know you're looking at a difference in square footage, but does that difference really merit the gulf in the prices??? It's unbelievable.And the first house is in a nice estate, so it's not the area that's dictating the price. That's the standard price for a 4 bed around here.

As far as I can see some estate agents still need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

i found out recently that my parents estate agents had their house on myhome for about twice what its worth. i informed the parents and they asked the agent to take it down. i assume it was just an oversight by them as there is no benefit in overvaluing the market as far as i can see.

ei.sdraob · 05-04-2011 2:39pm

dan_d wrote: »

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

:eek: Jebus died for this? :P

Laminations · 05-04-2011 3:21pm

Good piece by ronan Lyons

ei.sdraob wrote: »

does anyone know whatever happened to the plans for a national sales price registry?

Ronan Lyons wrote:

The CSO are at a well advanced stage in terms of publishing an index of house prices, but I think that will be highly aggregated. The Department of Justice and the PRA have been tasked with the public-facing database/map of closing prices. I haven’t heard how that is progressing but it was supposed to happen this year

jmayo · 05-04-2011 3:59pm

Is this report not just based on asking prices, because we do not have any register of actual selling prices ?

Looking at one of the tables in that report they compare asking prices over the years 2005 to 2011.

Now to me this introduces a glaring inconsistency into this report.

Asking prices during the height of the bubble were probably close if not below the actual selling prices, whereas over the last couple of years the asking prices are probably at least 10% if not more above the actual selling prices.

I know of someone who recently sold and their selling price was approx. 10% below their asking price and that was selling through the agent with the most conservative valuation and not with the agent who wanted an asking price that would have been 18% above eventual selling price.

So this report is based on a fair few assumptions I believe, because as OP mentioned we still do not have a house price sales register.

dan_d · 05-04-2011 4:19pm

And we all know assume makes an ass out of you and me.

Ei.sdraob, there's so many tasteless jokes I could make.....but I'll restrain myself for fear of the mods

:D:D

Dannyboy83 · 05-04-2011 4:30pm

jmayo wrote: »

Is this report not just based on asking prices, because we do not have any register of actual selling prices ?

Yes.

According to this article from December last year, there was a 90% collapse in mortgage lending, with just €1.2 billion drawn down by 7,261 people.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/collapse-of-lending-for-new-mortgages-is-gathering-pace-2442935.html
Just 7,261 people took out a mortgage in the three months at the end of the summer, compared with almost 55,000 for the same three-month period at the height of the housing boom in 2006.

The value of the mortgages drawn down in July, August and September of this year was just €1.2bn. This compares with €11bn in the third quarter of 2006.
Director of the Irish Mortgage Corporation Frank Conway said the latest statistics showed the mortgage market continued to be wiped out. "In the third quarter 2006, there were a total of 54,623 mortgages drawn down. Today, this figure has been reduced to 7,261, a fall of almost 87pc.

7,261 people drew down a total figure of €1.2billion.
Which averages out to approx. €165,000 per mortgage.

Obviously, there is a pretty large gap between asking price and selling price (and this data is already well out of date)

But as dan_d said, it's fairly obvious that almost nothing is selling at all.
As my father said to me the other day, it's irrelevant how cheap houses become if banks won't lend money to people to buy them!

Head The Wall · 05-04-2011 9:50pm

dan_d wrote: »

Interesting.By complete coincidence I was just looking around Daft at houses in my own area to see if they've dropped further. They have but not by much - the overall obvious thing is that they're just not selling at all.

The one thing I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand is that where I live, in North County Dublin, the houses in the estates have plummeted in price.Like everywhere. And I literally mean they've dropped by 100,000eur +, depending on the estate, in the last year. Yet there are a load of detached houses also on the market, but they are for ludicrous prices. Still. This is a seaside town, but why there should be such a gaping hole between the price of a decent size 4 bed semi-d and a 4 bed dormer bungalow is a complete mystery to me.

Take these for example
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=536382
(this was on sale for the guts of 500,000eur about 18 months ago, I might add)

vs this

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

Now I know you're looking at a difference in square footage, but does that difference really merit the gulf in the prices??? It's unbelievable.And the first house is in a nice estate, so it's not the area that's dictating the price. That's the standard price for a 4 bed around here.

As far as I can see some estate agents still need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

There's a big difference between a bog standard semi D and a detached house with a decent garden and parking etc around it. Most estate houses are generic looking and have similar layouts inside which to me is not appealing, I'm not saying I'd pay what they are looking for though.

There is also the neighbours issue in a Semi D, you only have to experience bad ones once to change your attitude

shannonpowerlab · 05-04-2011 9:56pm

dan_d wrote: »

Interesting.By complete coincidence I was just looking around Daft at houses in my own area to see if they've dropped further. They have but not by much - the overall obvious thing is that they're just not selling at all.

The one thing I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand is that where I live, in North County Dublin, the houses in the estates have plummeted in price.Like everywhere. And I literally mean they've dropped by 100,000eur +, depending on the estate, in the last year. Yet there are a load of detached houses also on the market, but they are for ludicrous prices. Still. This is a seaside town, but why there should be such a gaping hole between the price of a decent size 4 bed semi-d and a 4 bed dormer bungalow is a complete mystery to me.

Take these for example
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=536382
(this was on sale for the guts of 500,000eur about 18 months ago, I might add)

vs this

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

Now I know you're looking at a difference in square footage, but does that difference really merit the gulf in the prices??? It's unbelievable.And the first house is in a nice estate, so it's not the area that's dictating the price. That's the standard price for a 4 bed around here.

As far as I can see some estate agents still need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

Could it be because of the time it was traded previously? As in the amount the buyer borrowed from banks...? If they drop the price would it make major dent on the balance sheet?

Just keeping things afloat artificially? Maybe?

gigino · 06-04-2011 3:57am

I know of a property sold recently for 40 % less than its asking price on daft. The owners were eventually just glad to get rid of it. A 60% price drop on its peak value.

dan_d · 06-04-2011 9:10am

Head The Wall wrote: »

There's a big difference between a bog standard semi D and a detached house with a decent garden and parking etc around it. Most estate houses are generic looking and have similar layouts inside which to me is not appealing, I'm not saying I'd pay what they are looking for though.

There is also the neighbours issue in a Semi D, you only have to experience bad ones once to change your attitude

Oh yeah, I know there's going to be a difference.

But 300,000eur +? Really?? Seems completely out of whack to me.

ei.sdraob · 06-04-2011 9:13am

dan_d wrote: »

Oh yeah, I know there's going to be a difference.

But 300,000eur +? Really?? Seems completely out of whack to me.

It is out of whack
for 300,000 you can build a home the size of the 3 bungallows you linked combined

these homes must be located on top of goldmine or something, cant be location? seems far from city center.

dan_d · 06-04-2011 9:20am

No, it's about 30 mins drive. Well it's not far to me coz I basically grew up in the area, so it's totally normal. Others might find it far, but it's actually quite convenient. People bought houses way further out in the boom.

I don't know why they're so expensive.It's like the estate houses are at recession prices (well, dropping with the recession), but those houses are still priced at way higher. As I said, they're not selling. Even with the extra square footage, they're over-priced. And that type of house is ten-a-penny around here.There's more detached houses on their own ground than there are housing estates (maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much). It's not like there's only a small handful of them.

Anyway, not to focus too much on this area. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that some people still need to cop on and realise that they're overpricing their property.

ei.sdraob · 06-04-2011 9:28am

Yeh RonanL made similar point yesterday the homes that are selling are the ones which are priced realistically, while a whole category of celtic priced homes is just not moving

gigino · 07-04-2011 5:37am

IMHO, once interest rates go up, property taxes come in, more tax rises are introduced, government spending is cut further, and there is further emmigration,...not to mention the banks start dumping foreclosed properties on the market - the real fun will start. Prestige executive properties which were 900k or 1 million but now valued @ say 500k will be worth 200 to 250 k then ....still a handsome multiple of the avg industrial wage. No wonder properties are not moving now.

th3 s1aught3r · 07-04-2011 11:42am

Anyone know just how hard it is now for the average person to get a mortgage. Are the banks eager to lend again (as thats their business) or is the tap off. Also, I imagine the checking of a persons ability to pay and stress tests would be quite severe ?

littlemac1980 · 07-04-2011 12:15pm

dan_d wrote: »

No, it's about 30 mins drive. Well it's not far to me coz I basically grew up in the area, so it's totally normal. Others might find it far, but it's actually quite convenient. People bought houses way further out in the boom.

I don't know why they're so expensive.It's like the estate houses are at recession prices (well, dropping with the recession), but those houses are still priced at way higher. As I said, they're not selling. Even with the extra square footage, they're over-priced. And that type of house is ten-a-penny around here.There's more detached houses on their own ground than there are housing estates (maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much). It's not like there's only a small handful of them.

Anyway, not to focus too much on this area. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that some people still need to cop on and realise that they're overpricing their property.

Now my opinion is that estate houses are just not properly built. They may have been 15+ years ago, but my experience of, and perhaps buyers and lenders perceptions of Estate housing in recent times, is that the quality of worksmanship and materials used was shoddy and cheap.

You might say that's just an assumption, and it is, but if you disagree, go upstairs to the masterbedroom and knock on the wall. In all likely-hood, it's not brick. The reason it's not brick, is because brick takes longer to build and is far more expensive to build. Those building the estates, may not have broken any guidelines, (indeed in some cases they may have) and that may have been sufficient in the good times, of monopoly money, and monopoly investments, but not anymore. This is a buyers market, and I expect a rationale buyer nowadays - given that they can't be looking for a quick buck investment, and so are looking for a long term home - will not even consider touching anything built within the last ten years. Which incidentally tend to be estate housing in the suburbs of city areas, or within commuter distance.

Most bungalows, or detached houses have full brick structures, their foundations are easier to assess (I imagine) and the quality of the build is easier to verify, plus they tend to be older than 10 years of age, which is roughly how long it takes to be certain there are no serious latent defects etc.

I'm no expert, nor do I claim to be, this is just my rational opinion. If I had money for a house I wouldn't even consider purchasing in a recently built estate. There were simply too many cowboys involved in the latter years of the Celtic Tiger.

If my attitude is normal, that's why the semis are plummeting in value. Many of them are far from their 'true' value yet. Some entire estates are worthless.

The future of many estates look set for social housing projects, there are issues with Pyrite foundations, unfinished services, ghost estates, and on and on and on.

I also agree with the previous poster that a detached house provides far more in terms of security, privacy, amenity etc. I don't agree that €300K is an unreasonable price for a nice bungalow, even these days. The problem isn't that the bungalows are overpriced now, the problem is that the estate-houses were over priced then.

I don't mean to sound condascending, I'm just being honest. I would have no problem living in a nice estate, and not having a full brick structured house. My issue is simply with the valuation. Builders down this side of the country (the west), as far as I know were often completing 40+ houses in a year in some estates. I'm sure others did it quicker in other parts of the country.

Good times or bad times, I wouldn't pay over €150K for a house in an estate, an dit would have to be very special indeed. In most cases I would expect the value should range from €80K to €120. That's simply all they are worth.

Head The Wall · 07-04-2011 12:30pm

They have been building timber frame houses for a few centuries at this stage. Just because its not block doesn't mean its badly built. Timber frame houses weren't much if any cheaper during the boom either

littlemac1980 · 07-04-2011 1:06pm

Head The Wall wrote: »

They have been building timber frame houses for a few centuries at this stage. Just because its not block doesn't mean its badly built. Timber frame houses weren't much if any cheaper during the boom either

Yes, that's what I was saying.

There's nothing wrong with a properly built timber framed house. It's just not as soundproof etc. My point was that a large proportion of recently built estates, were not properly planned or built. It just so happens that they are also timber framed, which were cheaper and quicker to construct. I didn't say their price was less than block houses, in fact, my point was that they should have been priced lower, but were not.

Godge · 07-04-2011 1:15pm

gigino wrote: »

IMHO, once interest rates go up, property taxes come in, more tax rises are introduced, government spending is cut further, and there is further emmigration,...not to mention the banks start dumping foreclosed properties on the market - the real fun will start. Prestige executive properties which were 900k or 1 million but now valued @ say 500k will be worth 200 to 250 k then ....still a handsome multiple of the avg industrial wage. No wonder properties are not moving now.

Wouldn't go quite as far as you in the doomsday scenario - Irish people won't emigrate to lower social welfare rates so we need the Anglo economy (US, Canada, UK, Australia) growing strongly for people to emigrate to jobs as we don't know any other languages.

I agree with you that there is a long way for prices to drop and that there will be less need for prestige executive properties so they will come down in price.

thirtythirty · 07-04-2011 1:23pm

There's too much fake money tied up in the perceived value of property.

I think it should be:

For an existing building:
Price = raw materials value + "accessories / decoration".

For a new building:
Price = raw materials value + labour.

Then to get around inflamatory prices based on the value of land in the area (e.g. getting closer to town etc.), there should be Yearly Fee zones which go to the exchequer.

So for example then a nice big house in Foxrock costs the same as a nice big house in the middle of the country, but the yearly Foxrock fee would be 20x the fee applied to the middle of the country.

Then you get rid of the expectation of house value appreciation / worry of depreciation, yet preserve the price barriers of living somewhere and restrict demand, as is the case now except instead of the extra value floating about somewhere in the house, its doing some good in the public finances!

There, solved it.

dan_d · 07-04-2011 1:55pm

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Now my opinion is that estate houses are just not properly built. They may have been 15+ years ago, but my experience of, and perhaps buyers and lenders perceptions of Estate housing in recent times, is that the quality of worksmanship and materials used was shoddy and cheap.

You might say that's just an assumption, and it is, but if you disagree, go upstairs to the masterbedroom and knock on the wall. In all likely-hood, it's not brick. The reason it's not brick, is because brick takes longer to build and is far more expensive to build. Those building the estates, may not have broken any guidelines, (indeed in some cases they may have) and that may have been sufficient in the good times, of monopoly money, and monopoly investments, but not anymore. This is a buyers market, and I expect a rationale buyer nowadays - given that they can't be looking for a quick buck investment, and so are looking for a long term home - will not even consider touching anything built within the last ten years. Which incidentally tend to be estate housing in the suburbs of city areas, or within commuter distance.

Most bungalows, or detached houses have full brick structures, their foundations are easier to assess (I imagine) and the quality of the build is easier to verify, plus they tend to be older than 10 years of age, which is roughly how long it takes to be certain there are no serious latent defects etc.

I'm no expert, nor do I claim to be, this is just my rational opinion. If I had money for a house I wouldn't even consider purchasing in a recently built estate. There were simply too many cowboys involved in the latter years of the Celtic Tiger.

If my attitude is normal, that's why the semis are plummeting in value. Many of them are far from their 'true' value yet. Some entire estates are worthless.

The future of many estates look set for social housing projects, there are issues with Pyrite foundations, unfinished services, ghost estates, and on and on and on.

I also agree with the previous poster that a detached house provides far more in terms of security, privacy, amenity etc. I don't agree that €300K is an unreasonable price for a nice bungalow, even these days. The problem isn't that the bungalows are overpriced now, the problem is that the estate-houses were over priced then.

I don't mean to sound condascending, I'm just being honest. I would have no problem living in a nice estate, and not having a full brick structured house. My issue is simply with the valuation. Builders down this side of the country (the west), as far as I know were often completing 40+ houses in a year in some estates. I'm sure others did it quicker in other parts of the country.

Good times or bad times, I wouldn't pay over €150K for a house in an estate, an dit would have to be very special indeed. In most cases I would expect the value should range from €80K to €120. That's simply all they are worth.

Emmm......I wouldn't be relying on the build quality of one-off houses being fantastic either. I'm a civil engineer myself, bought an estate house that is 12 years old, coz the room sizes are way bigger and it's a better build (not by much, mind you), among other reasons.

I agree that estate houses aren't worth much, but the point I'm trying to make is the gulf between the particular houses I pointed out. You say a nice bungalow should be about 300k....well the ones I picked out are around the 600k - 700k mark. Which is nuts for a 4 bed bungalow, by any standards.

FYI, foundations of bungalows are often not easier to assess.....foundations of estate houses tend to follow a pretty standard format of strip footings (depending on the state of the ground), whereas bungalows/one-off builds could be anything, depending on the ground it was being built in and how much money the owner was willing to pay for quality. Also a lot of bungalows will have their internal walls upstairs as timber or stud partition....lighter, cheaper, etc, etc.

And funnily enough, it doesn't cost all that much to build a one-off house. At the end of the day, the prices of all these houses have nothing to do with quality in most cases - they have to do with the perceived market value for labour, materials, and then just the general area.

Balmed Out · 07-04-2011 1:58pm

spottyelephant wrote: »

There's too much fake money tied up in the perceived value of property.

I think it should be:

For an existing building:
Price = raw materials value + "accessories / decoration".

For a new building:
Price = raw materials value + labour.

Then to get around inflamatory prices based on the value of land in the area (e.g. getting closer to town etc.), there should be Yearly Fee zones which go to the exchequer.

So for example then a nice big house in Foxrock costs the same as a nice big house in the middle of the country, but the yearly Foxrock fee would be 20x the fee applied to the middle of the country.

Then you get rid of the expectation of house value appreciation / worry of depreciation, yet preserve the price barriers of living somewhere and restrict demand, as is the case now except instead of the extra value floating about somewhere in the house, its doing some good in the public finances!

There, solved it.

How would you work that out in all of the small towns and villages which still have their own areas that are deemed better addreses then others.

What about seaside communities that were invaded by summerhouses or luxury retirement pads during the boom. Locals are priced out of property in their community and these areas still seem to be more resilient to property price changes. If you live in an old small house where your great granny was born in an area filled with blow in yachtsmen should you be taxed out of your home?

thirtythirty · 07-04-2011 3:08pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

How would you work that out in all of the small towns and villages which still have their own areas that are deemed better addreses then others.

Yeh, and those areas would have a slightly higher yearly fee...

Balmed Out wrote: »

What about seaside communities that were invaded by summerhouses or luxury retirement pads during the boom. Locals are priced out of property in their community and these areas still seem to be more resilient to property price changes.

Ye, in the current system they're priced out.
But with my genius way, the house is the price it should be, first of all putting it in purchasing reach which it otherwise wouldn't have been, and fees would still be way lower than the €5 million artificially inflated price due to the luxury pads. Plus they would be fees relative to the demand for living there, so not outrageous.

Balmed Out wrote: »

If you live in an old small house where your great granny was born in an area filled with blow in yachtsmen should you be taxed out of your home?

No, but neither should your small old house be 10x the worth of a mansion 50 miles down the road.

How about this then, the cost to you is a yearly cost based on the value of your house X a weighted amount. The fees don't have to be flat. Therefore, your little small house worth 30k X whatever the amount is proportionate to the bigger more expensive house (based on materials) X whatever the amount is.

DoesNotCompute · 07-04-2011 3:17pm

dan_d wrote: »

Interesting.By complete coincidence I was just looking around Daft at houses in my own area to see if they've dropped further. They have but not by much - the overall obvious thing is that they're just not selling at all.

The one thing I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand is that where I live, in North County Dublin, the houses in the estates have plummeted in price.Like everywhere. And I literally mean they've dropped by 100,000eur +, depending on the estate, in the last year. Yet there are a load of detached houses also on the market, but they are for ludicrous prices. Still. This is a seaside town, but why there should be such a gaping hole between the price of a decent size 4 bed semi-d and a 4 bed dormer bungalow is a complete mystery to me.

Take these for example
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=536382
(this was on sale for the guts of 500,000eur about 18 months ago, I might add)

vs this

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=521694

or these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=480722

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=457015

Now I know you're looking at a difference in square footage, but does that difference really merit the gulf in the prices??? It's unbelievable.And the first house is in a nice estate, so it's not the area that's dictating the price. That's the standard price for a 4 bed around here.

As far as I can see some estate agents still need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

Head The Wall · 07-04-2011 3:32pm

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Yes, that's what I was saying.

There's nothing wrong with a properly built timber framed house. It's just not as soundproof etc. My point was that a large proportion of recently built estates, were not properly planned or built. It just so happens that they are also timber framed, which were cheaper and quicker to construct. I didn't say their price was less than block houses, in fact, my point was that they should have been priced lower, but were not.

Timber framed houses can actually be soundproofed just as well as block houses its just that people decide not to pay for that. Irish people want the cheapest initial cost i.e heating system and then pay through the nose for oil/gas for the rest of their life instead of spending more on insulation etc.

Timber frames for houses are far from cheap also, you could be looking at 50k for a frame for an average size one off house.

Don't mind that "Concrete built is better built" guff, the problem here is Irish tradesmen are mostly resistant to change and don't want to do what the unknown

Godge · 07-04-2011 4:36pm

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Here, here, excellent post.

In Leixlip, there are still 3 bed houses being advertised for 300k-ish. Sellers seem to be absolutely deluded to think they can sell at those prices. For example:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=497280
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=546523
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=561140
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=552938

Compare with, let's say Maynooth:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=548281
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=548276
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=544432
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=569673

Insanity.

A lot of investors selling in Maynooth who used rent to college students who are now commuting using the improved rail service as Daddy can't afford the extra cost of them living away from home. That is depressing the market there slightly but shouldn't be doing so by as much as your examples are showing. Definitely overblown expectations in Leixlip.

daft report out

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