Self-Employment Benefit?

smiles302

The country needs jobs. Entrepreneurs potentially provide jobs when all goes well for them.

That there is a shortage of jobs, why don't we have self-employment benefit? Say for about 6 months, from the time you register your company. Just to give people a chance to get things going without having to work a second job to put food on the table.

Take for example a contractor working in IT. If the contract runs out and they are left with no work, they are not entitled to unemployment benefit as they are technically self employed.
These are the people, likely to not be put off by the risk involved in going out on their own. There are grants and things to help, though these take quite a lot of time and effort to apply to. It tends to involve presentations and pitches etc. Difficult to find time to do if you are working full time.

Like-wise with anyone who is unemployed at the moment, with an idea to set up a business. Why not, pay the company registration fee for them for example? Have rent allowance help cover shop rent for 2/3 months or something along those lines.

With limits, say you won't be given help to set up a service when that service already exists in the area.

The idea being if half these businesses succeed for even a year or two, that's those people and their employees employed for a year or two.

Ireland has a huge resource in a skilled IT workforce, they could potentially set up the next facebook. That's huge employment.

Daft idea or viable?

Sleepy

Good idea in principle and to be fair some of what you're talking about is already in existence.

The lack of entitlement to welfare for the self-employed is a serious problem though imho.

Thread might be better suited to Irish Economy though.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

cee_jay

smiles302 wrote: »

That there is a shortage of jobs, why don't we have self-employment benefit? Say for about 6 months, from the time you register your company. Just to give people a chance to get things going without having to work a second job to put food on the table.

Take for example a contractor working in IT. If the contract runs out and they are left with no work, they are not entitled to unemployment benefit as they are technically self employed.

Self employed people are entitled to claim Jobseekers - depending on their contributions it will be benefit or allowance, but they are entitled to claim either. Allowance just depends on means test.
So for support, if you are in receipt of Benefit, and want to set up your own business you can claim Short Term Enterprise allowance.
Those in receipt of Allowance can claim Back to work allowance.

Nehaxak

I don't know where this myth stems from that self employed are not entitled to JobSeekers if for some reason they go bust.
If you paid your contributions of the correct type, you'd be entitled to JSB as anyone else who did so is/was. If you did not, you're still entitled to JobSeeekers Allowance, again as anyone else is or was and as for everyone else you will be means tested for same. Seems fair to me, don't see what the problem is.

I was Self Employed some, ooh I think 15 years ago. It didn't work out, I had been paying the correct contributions regardless and went on to benefit when I stopped being self employed and then on to assistance for about 6 months before I picked up another job which I stayed in for just over 10 years.
It was a taxman from the revenue who recommended and gave me the correct information at the time as and to what contribution I should pay in order to have some backup in case things didn't work out.
Rather than I suppose an accountant giving me wrong information and telling me to pay the bare minimum which would entitle me only to assistance/JSA if things went belly up.

Maybe things have changed now, I'm not too sure on that but at the very least you're entitled to JSA as everyone else in the state is, assuming you meet the means test requirements, which is only fair.

There are also schemes run by the state and private entities with help from the state, which provide backup, support and assistance to Self Employed or sole traders, or those just wishing to make a go at it for the first time.
A lot of them seem to be in a shambles but there are some like the SouthSide Partnership operating out of Dun Laoghaire if I'm correct, with the help of Norma Smurfit who inputs cash to part fund the initiative, which operate very well.

zig

smiles302 wrote: »

Like-wise with anyone who is unemployed at the moment, with an idea to set up a business. Why not, pay the company registration fee for them for example? Have rent allowance help cover shop rent for 2/3 months or something along those lines.

With limits, say you won't be given help to set up a service when that service already exists in the area.

Im not sure what kind of benefit you're referring to in general for unemployed people involved in business start ups, but as it is , it is possible to get 'back to work enterprise allowance', which is the same as social welfare for 1 year, then 75% of that for the second year , 50% for the third. While you get this you are entitled to rent allowance and whatever other benefits you'd normally receive while unemployed. You can still earn money in your business while receiving this.Im in the process of applying for it at the moment.

As for someone not being entitled to benefit when made unemployed, im not sure about JSB , but if you have no assets you can apply for jobseekers allowance.

Pharaoh1

Unless I'm very much mistaken the vast majority of self employed are not entitled to jobseekers benefit as they are only allowed to pay Class S PRSI.

Have a look at the link below

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/Pages/selfemployed.aspx

I checked with my accountant and he told me I am not allowed to pay Class A. The only way around it would be to form a limited company and become an employee of the company but most do not go this route as the business is then subject to company law with all the additional bureaucracy.

Is it fair? - I don't think it is
Is it a disincentive to business startup? Yes I believe it is

tricky D

Something like BTWEA

Tigger

Self employed stamp Dosent give entitlement to benefit and you can't just pay a bigger sta
P you can only pay the correct stamp

Nehaxak wrote: »

I don't know where this myth stems from that self employed are not entitled to JobSeekers if for some reason they go bust.
If you paid your contributions of the correct type, you'd be entitled to JSB as anyone else who did so is/was. If you did not, you're still entitled to JobSeeekers Allowance, again as anyone else is or was and as for everyone else you will be means tested for same. Seems fair to me, don't see what the problem is.

I was Self Employed some, ooh I think 15 years ago. It didn't work out, I had been paying the correct contributions regardless and went on to benefit when I stopped being self employed and then on to assistance for about 6 months before I picked up another job which I stayed in for just over 10 years.
It was a taxman from the revenue who recommended and gave me the correct information at the time as and to what contribution I should pay in order to have some backup in case things didn't work out.
Rather than I suppose an accountant giving me wrong information and telling me to pay the bare minimum which would entitle me only to assistance/JSA if things went belly up.

Maybe things have changed now, I'm not too sure on that but at the very least you're entitled to JSA as everyone else in the state is, assuming you meet the means test requirements, which is only fair.

There are also schemes run by the state and private entities with help from the state, which provide backup, support and assistance to Self Employed or sole traders, or those just wishing to make a go at it for the first time.
A lot of them seem to be in a shambles but there are some like the SouthSide Partnership operating out of Dun Laoghaire if I'm correct, with the help of Norma Smurfit who inputs cash to part fund the initiative, which operate very well.

smiles302

Self employed stamp doesn't give entitlement to benefit and you can't just pay a bigger stamp you can only pay the correct stamp

I thought this was true too. I know a number of people who were self employed or are now and they've all said they weren't entitled to claim anything if the business failed. It was part of the risk.

SupaNova

The irish government has totally killed the small start up. Another point is during the boom we had regulation for every business increase, to fuel growth in government and bureaucracy. Another thing the government could do is start abolishing all these regulations and red tape.

This from food safety authority:

[FONT=ApexSansBoldT, sans-serif]Possible Pitfalls when Operating a Food Business from Home[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Operating a food business from home can present specific problems that you should be aware of.[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]1) Food can become contaminated due to:[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Normal domestic activities – there must be proper segregation of business and domestic food [/FONT][FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]preparation and activities[/FONT][FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]. Basically someone has to install a separate new kitchen in their home if they want to sell food. Utterly silly barrier to entry. Existing Restaurants I am sure are happy with this measure more than slowing down competition.
[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Poor hygiene – not washing hands properly or frequently enough, particularly after using the toilet, handling refuse etc., dirty cloths and tea towels, poor cleaning practices, dirty equipment/utensils etc Can never be policed in any food business
[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Working when ill, particularly when suffering from vomiting/diarrhoea, infected skin wounds, flu, coughing and infections of the mouth, throat, eyes or ears [/FONT][FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Can never be policed in any food business
[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Changing/feeding babies in food preparation[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]People or pets entering food preparation areas[/FONT]
• [FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Facilities being too small[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]2) Production of too much food for the size of the area. Translate as must have restaurant equivalent facilities.
[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]3) Insufficient/unsuitable refrigerator space to keep food chilled.[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Translate as must have restaurant equivalent facilities.[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]4) Lack of equipment necessary to cool food fast enough after cooking.[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Must have restaurant equivalent facilities.[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]5) The type of food being produced or the process involved presents too high a risk to take place safely in a domestic kitchen. Must have restaurant facilities.
[/FONT]
[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]6) Food may be supplied to a vulnerable group, e.g. babies and young children, pregnant women and the elderly. Lol[/FONT]

[FONT=ApexSansBookT, sans-serif]Is the food safety authority really for the safety of the people or protection of existing restaurants? I am pretty happy with my mums cooking and i am sure she has never poisoned me, and i think a lot of people would like her food. She is totally blocked from sharing her beautiful cooking
[/FONT]

Peanut

^^^ They sound more like common sense guidelines rather than red tape as such.

I agree with your main point though. There was no incentive or pressure on the previous governments to put real energy into reforming the start-up culture here.

Also, too many of the existing supports are tied up with social welfare and schemes to get people into available jobs - but not to actually create new employment.

SupaNova

Yeah some are obviously guidelines. But I presume a restaurant standard kitchen is a requirement. You can't use an existing domestic kitchen. Meaning people need to get a loan to start selling food produced in their own home if they don't have enough savings.

It would be much easier to create a better environment for small business start ups by removing regulations and red tape than trying to make credit more accessible or directing funds to small businesses. And removing some regulations would not require any funds to be directed to small businesses, and would actually save on some bureaucracy. Making the cost of start up cheaper would be far better than directing to funds so they can afford the cost of start up.

I just took this as an example. I am sure their is similar regulations making it harder for every small business, from hairdressers, launderettes etc etc.

shoegirl

AFAIK if you cease trading and have been just paying class S stamps as a company director or sole trader you CAN apply for JSA, but your means would be taken into account. Basically this means if you have savings or assets worth over 20k other than the family home. I think the problem for most self employed people is the process of assessment can take anything from a couple of months to up to a year and audited accounts are demanded - which costs money, which they probably don't have.

The trouble with the system as it currently stands is that is essentially requires self employed people to really get into trouble before welfare starts taking them seriously and even then there are loads of horror stories of people being refused support on the most flippant of rationales.

If you work under an umbrella structure you can pay class A but basically that adds another 10% or so onto your tax, which most people can't really afford.
The big problems with self employment are high levels of business failure, restricted credit and also (according to UK stats) 80% of self employed earn less than they would as employees so there is not much slack for hard times like this. I notice also a lot of "me too" business that really are not great ideas.

tenchi-fan

*Bangs head against wall*

These schemes don't work. Anything that involves the hiring of a single public sector worker to administer will not work.

Taking money from one person and giving it to another under any pretext (family income supplements for people who need more money than they can earn, rent supplements to help people compete with workers for rental property, child benefit, means-tested social welfare, tax breaks for developers to stimulate growth, bailouts for banks to start them lending again) will ultimately drive up tax rates, cause the economy to contract and leave more people unemployed...... and more people looking for handouts for their half-assed business idea that didn't have legs during the boom and sure as **** are non-runners now.

My solution is low income tax and low benefits. Let the government shrink to a manageable size and watch all the country's problems disappear.

Otherwise, here is what you end up with...
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=park+street,+dundalk,+ireland&aq=&sll=50.625073,-97.119141&sspn=31.270936,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Park+St,+Dundalk,+County+Louth,+Ireland&ll=54.001501,-6.404879&spn=0,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=54.001404,-6.405236&panoid=H3bJeHnTCO1RgrENmHsVtQ&cbp=12,13.26,,1,4.48

The first shop is "Tard Consulting Ireland Ltd", the second is "Ebony and Ivory barber shop" and the third is "Turn Key Rentals". And god knows how many businesses went through these doors.

These stores were set up by newly arrived immigrants who got every government grant going to employ staff and do market research. I haven't bothered attempting to download the annual returns from the CRO but I'd bet any money that the government saw no return on these investments. I doubt any of these "legitimate business enterprises" had a single customer.

When the government is involved, the money will not perform and the businesses will not be viable. People will just abuse the system. That is why we need proper banks, not ones that will gamble billions of euros in property, expect state handouts, and then hike mortgage rates... we need banks that will see potential in good, local businesses and lend them money! But because consumer confidence is so low, in no small part due to uncertainly and stagflation, there is no such thing as a good investment (there are no customers!) .. and besides, Irish banks aren't even capable of lending money.

tenchi-fan

hmm, shoegirl thanks for bumping an old topic :rolleyes:

Oh well, i got a good rant out of it!

and FYI..
Tard Consulting , registered on 03/07/2008 and didn't as much as submit an annual return. Dissolved Effective date: 28/05/2010
Well I'm sure it did a lot for Nigeria's economy but it did **** all for Ireland's

Amhran Nua

tenchi-fan wrote: »

we need banks that will see potential in good, local businesses and lend them money!

Even if the banks were lending money, I know a lot of people who wouldn't get a loan for a new business since bankruptcy laws are so harsh in this country, it's just not worth the risk. Enterprise default needs to be reformed.

conorhal

These suggestions are typical of the bankrupt thinking of our political classes. Milk every teat dry!

It makes my blood boil to think of all small business owners that pay exorbitant rates, water charges, waste disposal charges, employee PRSI, tax, rent to landlords and provide VAT to the exchequer etc but are left destitute if the risks they have taken to start a business do not pay off. No wonder Ireland is lacking in innovation, we heavily penalize those that show any initiative.

In the event that their business failed, I would offer enhanced benefits 25% above those of an average JSA applicant to any self employed business owner that has employed more then one person full time for more then a year, and these enhanced benefits would apply for 12 months before dropping back to standard JSA. This in my book would act as an incentive on people to take the risk of starting their own business.

carm

conorhal wrote: »

These suggestions are typical of the bankrupt thinking of our political classes. Milk every teat dry!

It makes my blood boil to think of all small business owners that pay exorbitant rates, water charges, waste disposal charges, employee PRSI, tax, rent to landlords and provide VAT to the exchequer etc but are left destitute if the risks they have taken to start a business do not pay off. No wonder Ireland is lacking in innovation, we heavily penalize those that show any initiative.

In the event that their business failed, I would offer enhanced benefits 25% above those of an average JSA applicant to any self employed business owner that has employed more then one person full time for more then a year, and these enhanced benefits would apply for 12 months before dropping back to standard JSA. This in my book would act as an incentive on people to take the risk of starting their own business.

+1 Totally agree with you.

Fail in a small business in Ireland and you are penalised every which way you turn when you look for assistance. In the meantime you may have run a business that employs people and paid taxes for both into the system.

On top of that, they look for your accounts over the previous year in the social welfare office. Why would you be passing over your accounts from a previous year when the struggle to survive is the "present" year? From an accountant no less? If you're struggling to live, how in the name of god are you expected to pay an accountant?

It's a ridiculous situation and totally unfair.

smelltheglove

carm wrote: »

On top of that, they look for your accounts over the previous year in the social welfare office. Why would you be passing over your accounts from a previous year when the struggle to survive is the "present" year? From an accountant no less? If you're struggling to live, how in the name of god are you expected to pay an accountant?

It's a ridiculous situation and totally unfair.

I am self employed and last year my husband was let go, the system was a nightmare and it was all because of my employment status. Ok so he was automatically entitled to the benefit for a year, no prob there BUT when it came to it, we had to apply for medical card, rent allowance, for the rent allowance we had to be on the housing list and every one of these wanted to see my past years accounts. I would supply them with my complete books and tax returns only to be faced with, 'sure we need something from an accountant' I even had one query me when I said the tax man accept my books saying 'so you honestly expect me to believe that the tax man just BELIEVES what you write down', I just replied that if he was in doubt he would audit me.

We were put under more frequent reviews because of my status, most meetings I had to be there because of the numerous queries, I even had one take car repairs off of my business costs even though it was the car I use for work thereby upping my profits for the year and reducing my husbands payments. It is a disgraceful system, my husband worked from the time he left school until the time he was let go because of recession, he was entitled to these payments yet he had to jump through loops just because of my work. I can only imagine how hard it is for someone who was a self employed person and the main family earner to go through that.

carm

smelltheglove wrote: »

I would supply them with my complete books and tax returns only to be faced with, 'sure we need something from an accountant' I even had one query me when I said the tax man accept my books saying 'so you honestly expect me to believe that the tax man just BELIEVES what you write down', I just replied that if he was in doubt he would audit me.

Exactly the same position. My husband is self-employed but I've worked for near on 20 years paying tax into the system. Suddenly I'm made redundant and I feel I'm being penalised for marrying someone who so happens to be self-employed. And the treatment I found with the CWO disgusting. How I've found it is if you've got "self-employed" written anywhere on your file in an Irish social welfare office, you've got "MILLIONAIRE" stamped on your forehead. Which is bullsh1t. We have "survived" this so-called boom, not partied in it.

I was in the middle of asking this particular community welfare officer "how are we supposed to supply accounts when we cannot afford to pay an accountant?" at the same time, the woman stood up, closed my file and left as if to say "tough sh!te".

smelltheglove

carm wrote: »

I was in the middle of asking this particular community welfare officer "how are we supposed to supply accounts when we cannot afford to pay an accountant?" at the same time, the woman stood up, closed my file and left as if to say "tough sh!te".

I had the exact same thing, I had one girl tell me that unless I agree to submit an accountants letter before the end of October every year she would take us off the housing list which would mean no help with rent. In an area where competition is increasing and jobs are fewer I am extremely lucky to be getting work, millionaire - I wish, sure if you were to look at my hours versus my profits I would be lucky to get minimum wage. My husband worked damn hard for years to get his entitlements, which I am sure you did also, the fact that my employment status or your husbands comes into it is a disgrace!

srsly78

Another thread full of misinformation. Self-employed people can easily get the dole, they just gotta sign a form saying they have stopped trading first. With a director they would have to resign or liquidate company. Even stranger is people complaining about the Revenue asking for accounts!! You could be sitting on loads of assets, so of course they won't give you the dole. Company directors have legal responsibilities to have accounts done up to date so they would be in breach of the law here.

Rich people are not entitled to the dole because they don't need it. Only people with stamps/contributions and those in poverty get the dole. If things are that bad for you, then sign a form saying you have ceased trading and claim the dole.

Some more tips:
Produce accounts: does not mean produce "audited accounts", most company are audit exempt. Just show dole office what you have (you DO have an excel spreadsheet right?) and a bank statement. It is not difficult to do up basic accounts yourself, it is part of running a business.

HellFireClub

As someone who recently was unemployed for 2 years and started up a small business, I can tell you one thing, you get more respect and help in this country for staying on the dole...

If you try to start up a business, the biggest obstacle will be the public sector MUPPETS that you will have to deal with in every government agency, be it FAS, Dept. of Social protection, Revenue or The County Enterprise Boards...

I've seen it all, from endless petty wrangling over an application for a VAT number because the registered office of the company was my home address, to dealing with the politically appointed stoogies on the County Enterprise Board, who are being paid 100K a year plus expenses to tell you they haven't a red cent to lend to any business start-up. Grand so, why keep the office open so?!? Ah yeah, jobs for the boyo's of course...

meglome

srsly78 wrote: »

Another thread full of misinformation. Self-employed people can easily get the dole, they just gotta sign a form saying they have stopped trading first. With a director they would have to resign or liquidate company. Even stranger is people complaining about the Revenue asking for accounts!! You could be sitting on loads of assets, so of course they won't give you the dole. Company directors have legal responsibilities to have accounts done up to date so they would be in breach of the law here.

Rich people are not entitled to the dole because they don't need it. Only people with stamps/contributions and those in poverty get the dole. If things are that bad for you, then sign a form saying you have ceased trading and claim the dole.

Some more tips:
Produce accounts: does not mean produce "audited accounts", most company are audit exempt. Just show dole office what you have (you DO have an excel spreadsheet right?) and a bank statement. It is not difficult to do up basic accounts yourself, it is part of running a business.

Sorry my friend had the same problem as the other people here. Had to supply a years books, a years bank statements for him personally and the business. He had ceased trading. It took six months before he got a red cent, and that was after he literally went to the SW inspector and begged. Funny how people's personal experiences differ to your opinion.

NWPat

Perhaps the self employed should save some of the (approx) 36% of earnings that are underdeclared each year or pay tax on it, then there would be more money to go round.


Ref: http://www.smye2011.org/fileadmin/fe_user/kmayor/con_paper572.pdf

srsly78

It takes 6 months for almost anyone to get the dole these days, if your mate was at risk of starving or couldn't pay rent then the Supplementary Welfare Officer would sort him out just like anyone else.

carm

srsly78 wrote: »

It takes 6 months for almost anyone to get the dole these days, if your mate was at risk of starving or couldn't pay rent then the Supplementary Welfare Officer would sort him out just like anyone else.

Where does it take 6 months to get the dole these days?

Misinformation. No. These are experiences. Perhaps we all got the wrong community welfare officer on a bad day? I think not.

I was asked for an accountants letter, not for an assessment for my "husband's" social welfare but for "mine", a paye worker who worked for two decades. They would not accept a dog-chewed Excel spreadsheet (no, he "DOESNT" have an Excel spreadsheet nor a PC), they requested a letter from his accountant. I wasn't complaining about having to hand over accounts, I was complaining about the fact we are requested to send in accounts from the previous year. We weren't struggling the previous year. We're struggling now.

"In my experience", the welfare officer was no more interested in my case than she was the 25 people waiting behind me, that's after stating to the woman we were struggling to make ends meet, but we're not quite at starving point quite yet.

srsly78

Anyone without stamps faces a big delay getting on the dole. I'm speaking from my own experience of unemployment as a self-employed person, I don't know why you label it as misinformation.

It's pretty clear you have no understanding about how accounting and self employment works. Self employed people generally declare tax on their PREVIOUS tax year. Current tax year is not as important. Right now I'm doing up my accounts for jan-dec 2010, due in a month or two. Also, as a married person are you familiar with "joint assessment" for tax purposes? You are not tax cleared because your husband is not tax cleared, because he didn't bother to file accounts it seems.

If you have trouble meeting ends meet don't cry to the dole officer, cry to the SUPPLEMENTARY WELFARE OFFICER. Please go to the state benefits forum and learn more about what you are entitled to.

carm

srsly78 wrote: »

Anyone without stamps faces a big delay getting on the dole. I'm speaking from my own experience of unemployment as a self-employed person, I don't know why you label it as misinformation.

It's pretty clear you have no understanding about how accounting and self employment works. Self employed people generally declare tax on their PREVIOUS tax year. Current tax year is not as important. Right now I'm doing up my accounts for jan-dec 2010, due in a month or two. Also, as a married person are you familiar with "joint assessment" for tax purposes? You are not tax cleared because your husband is not tax cleared, because he didn't bother to file accounts it seems.

If you have trouble meeting ends meet don't cry to the dole officer, cry to the SUPPLEMENTARY WELFARE OFFICER. Please go to the state benefits forum and learn more about what you are entitled to.

I was quoting your own quote "Another thread full of misinformation" from your previous post. I didn't label it misinformation-you did! Read carefully. I stated "Misinformation. No". You appear to have misread my post entirely. I do like your assumptions based on a forum online though. You have no idea what has been done or not done in my husband's case. I am indeed very familiar with "joint assessment" for tax purposes, having spoken in detail with the revenue about it. I have been paying tax over 20 years as a single person.

My point, which I believe you missed is, "the trouble with stating your income is not about what you had last year, last month, last week, the problem is today" so don't expect anything from the accounts from a self-employed person for those back dates to mean anything when the person is in trouble this week. I don't see what you posting training on basic accounting gives any useful advice here as much as it's mildly interesting.

Yes, you're right, I don't have a full understanding of accounts as I've been a paye worker for 2 decades and I haven't had to deal with accounts. I do, however, fully understand how, as a human being, how people should be treated, something I have found in my local social welfare office to be less than satisfactory. For me and many others I know.

I was actually speaking to the COMMUNITY WELFARE OFFICER assigned to my case not "crying" to the dole officer (whatever that is), which according to the citizens advice website states: "Community Welfare Officers (CWOs) are based in health centres and are responsible for the day to day administration of Community Welfare Services. Community Welfare Services include schemes such as the Supplementary Welfare Allowance, medical cards, Nursing Home Subventions and the Mobility Allowance. "

Just where does your SUPPLEMENTARY WELFARE OFFICER come into this?

Edit: On top of that, I know perfectly well what I'm entitled to. Nothing. As being married to someone self-employed, you're not "generally" entitled to Mortgage Interest Supplement nor are you entitled to Family Income Support. As I've been in contact with two local TDs to make a point of this to which one replied agreeing with me about the unfairness of our situation when compared to some lazy arse who's paid no tax into the system and the other newly elected TD who had a huge amount of votes, just about bothered to write a two line I'll get back to you.

srsly78

My mistake, the CWO gives you Supplementary Welfare Allowance.

It's really very simple: show your accounts, and prove your business is terminated. Otherwise they won't give you anything, and rightfully so. You could be sitting on loads of assets! How is the social welfare office supposed to know? The CWO wouldl even give you money for an accountant I bet, if you properly explained the situation. Not having accounts done means you can't prove you have paid your tax, you might owe the revenue money.

Davekoolhill

Would you really think that jobseekers benefits discourage people from looking for a job. Everyone seems to be talking about it.
http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/oecds-criticism-do-you-agree/

carm

srsly78 wrote: »

My mistake, the CWO gives you Supplementary Welfare Allowance.

It's really very simple: show your accounts, and prove your business is terminated. Otherwise they won't give you anything, and rightfully so. You could be sitting on loads of assets! How is the social welfare office supposed to know? The CWO wouldl even give you money for an accountant I bet, if you properly explained the situation. Not having accounts done means you can't prove you have paid your tax, you might owe the revenue money.

If it was that simple, do you think I'd be posting all this on a forum?! Business won't be terminated. It's never this simple. He's hoping "it picks up" (ever the optimist) but after 30 years, he doesn't want to just close it down while it may have a chance of getting better during the summer months.

Agreed, rightfully so, you do have to show something to prove your income, you can't just expect a hand out as no doubt over the years some self-employed (and PAYE workers) have been defrauding the system.

I guess my main irk is with the woman in question's attitude. She wouldn't take anything more than the accountant's letter, in fact told me I'm "lucky they accepted the accountants letter and didn't request the full accounts from the accountant".

I'm not exaggerating when I say the woman talked over me when I asked questions, stood up while I was mid-sentence and left the booth while I was still talking to her (in a very polite manner). It was almost as if someone had stuffed cotton buds in her ears.

She would as likely "give us money for an accountant" as Fingleton will return the E1 million bonus.