Fourball Better Ball

alxmorgan

Hey all,

Played first comp of this kind yesterday and we qualified for matchplay comp.
Some questions:

1) Is it ok to take any order of shots e.g. I am 5 feet away putting for par and my partner is 10 feet away putting for bird - ok for me to go first ?

2) What kind of strategy is involved in a matchplay game of this kind of format ? I mean is there a way people approach rounds, holes, shots ?

thanks

Myksyk

alxmorgan wrote: »

1) Is it ok to take any order of shots e.g. I am 5 feet away putting for par and my partner is 10 feet away putting for bird - ok for me to go first ?

yes

What kind of strategy is involved in a matchplay game of this kind of format ? I mean is there a way people approach rounds, holes, shots

stay ... In ... Play.

thoscon

Sorry for hijacking the thread..we also qualified for our doubles matchplay..
Quick question it's played off full handicaps just wondering what way does dat work..

alxmorgan

Good advice.
Here's a situation for you. Index 1 and there's two lakes and a huge tree between me and the green. My partner lays up to the left of the second lake and leaves 100 yards in for his 3rd shot.
I decide to go for it based on him laying up. My confidence levels are 50% I'd say of making it over and avoiding the tree. I hit a hybrid and it flies nice but catches a tree branch and I catch a huge break and it drops between the two lakes so I'm 120ish from the flag.

Anyway my question is should I have gone for it or also laid up and given us both chances at up and down for par or a good chance of 5s considering we have a shot each on the hole ?

Myksyk

Good question. In terms of risk and reward in matchplay I feel you have to have more than a 50/50 chance when taking a risk. Translated a 50/50 chance means that played ten times I'm out of the hole five times. Not a good return. So much can happen around the green that 9 times out of 10 that's where I want to be.

thoscon

Prob best to lay up aswell in case he doesn't make par
We had the same situation on 18 yesterday.it's a par 5 wit water before the green.
We reckoned we needed a birdie or par to have enough points to qualify ,my partner laid up to 100yds with his 2nd shot..I was 200 yards carry to the green into the wind and again my better judgement I let him talk me into goin for it and ended up wet.
He hit his 3rd shot thru the green and we both ended up with a 6..
Thankfully we qualified but I shud have laid up

alxmorgan

Again good advice - as usual mostly common sense. But not always the easiest thing to find on a golf course (not when I'm on it anyway)

I'd be interested to hear the answer re handicaps too
Yesterday we were 3/4 handicap but as it was stableford I just played and didn't worry too much about it but in matchplay ? (which I've never played)

So if we're off 18 and 19 and they're off 12 and 10 and we're playing full handicap then for index 1 the scores are all 4, 5, 4, 4 - its halved ?

PhilipMarlowe

There's no absolute right or wrong strategy... it's only wrong if (when) you make a balls of it.
Eg. in the example above, you're not overly confident... it dumps in the water. Now your partner is all alone and he crumbles under pressure (because he's a 19 handicapper), catches his wedge heavy and ye have gifted the hole away.

Your strategy has to be based on your abilities... but two steady players hitting fairways and greens will often do well IMO.


Regarding handicaps for fourball matchplay:
Lowest guy goes to scratch and the remaining players receive 3/4 of the difference.
Easiest understood by example...

Player A - 6 handicap
Player B - 11 handicap
vs
Player C - 9 handicap
Player D - 18 handicap

Player A is the lowest so he plays off scratch in the match.
The difference between him and Player B is 5 shots (11 - 6) so 5 * 0.75 = 3.75 --> B plays off 4
Player C has a difference of 3 (9 - 6) so 3 * 0.75 = 2.25 --> C plays off 2
Player D has a difference of 12 (18 - 6) so 12 * 0.75 = 9 --> D plays off 9

Each player then receives their shots on the lowest indexed holes.. except Player A who gets none

Myksyk

alxmorgan wrote: »

1) Is it ok to take any order of shots e.g. I am 5 feet away putting for par and my partner is 10 feet away putting for bird - ok for me to go first ?

an experienced pair will concede the par putt.

aster99

Licksy, was just wondering what happens if 2 players have joint lowest handicap. Say like in your example if players A & C were both off 6. What happens then? Would it be they both play off zero and the other 2 players (B & D) are worked out the same as before

alxmorgan

On conceding putts - how far are we talking for a concession ?
And is it used as mind games too ? - e.g. you concede everything from 3 feet in fro 9 holes and then suddenly stop to put your opponents on edge or is that kind of thing frowned upon ?

PhilipMarlowe

aster99 wrote: »

Licksy, was just wondering what happens if 2 players have joint lowest handicap. Say like in your example if players A & C were both off 6. What happens then? Would it be they both play off zero and the other 2 players (B & D) are worked out the same as before

Yes.
The basic concept to remember is that you get three quarters of the difference. You don't 'deserve' full difference because you're not playing alone.
If there were 3 scratch players and an 8 handicapper, the guy off 8 would receive 6 shots from the other 3...
((8 - 0 = 8) * 0.75) = 6
If you want to be pedantic, there is a zero 'difference' between any scratch player and any other (or any amount of players that share the lowest handicap of the group) so 0.75 * 0 = 0

PhilipMarlowe

alxmorgan wrote: »

On conceding putts - how far are we talking for a concession ?
And is it used as mind games too ? - e.g. you concede everything from 3 feet in fro 9 holes and then suddenly stop to put your opponents on edge or is that kind of thing frowned upon ?

You can concede (or not) whenever you like, your choice. Once a putt/shot is conceded then you can't change your mind...

It can be used in mind-games... I'd never get upset if I'm asked to hole out, even from a foot. I am expecting to get it anyway so what's the fuss
If your opponents have two putts from 15ft for the win, I'd tend to concede, particularly early in the round. No point in having them maybe make the birdie and get the lift from that. Even taking two putts keeps their rhythm and feel going. If it's later in the round and you're clutching at straws then by all means let them at it and hope for the best (worst).

Trampas

Depending on standard but if you are around the 10handicap I think the majority don't play fourball to well.

1st player gets up and hits it down the middle of fairway. Playing partner decides to bust a gut and knocks it down or ends up out of the hole.

But his partner is still far from making a par for certain as he aint a pro

GreeBo

Myksyk wrote: »

an experienced pair will concede the par putt.

huh? why would you do this? This gives the birdie guy a free run at it.
Better to let the par guy have a go and possibly miss, thus forcing birdie guy to two put at worst.

alxmorgan

fair point - hadn't thought of it like that.
Its not like you're just conceding a par score - you're conceding a par score and then giving his partner a shot to nothing.

I think the best thing is for me to let my partner worry about all that crap and I'll just concentrate on keeping the little white ball on the short green stuff

derra

Going off topic a bit but still relating to Fourball better ball, was gonna book Bray golf club tomorrow for the open fourball with a mate as a pair.

Checked back a few times and i be taking a chance booking it and others must be thinking the same as your relying on another pair to book also to mark your card.

If ya did book and no else books same time slot by looking at online timesheet and ya don't go up they could possibly charge your card or maybe still go up and play but it takes the competitive edge away and bit of banter with another pair playing.

Surely they be off better having a singles competition every Wednesday rather than risk losing revenue, seemed to be like that most weeks in Bray last season too.

Granted they have 48 players so far for tomorrow but wonder if it would be more if it were singles.

I could be eating my words tomorrow if it fills up but i'd rather know now if i was to be getting out and playing in the competition instead of depending on a partner who suddenly might not make it or hoping another pair books also.

Rant over.

Reganovski

Is there a difference between a normal Fourball and a Fourball better ball? :rolleyes:
I'm so long outta the game, I can't remember

Daithio12

Reganovski wrote: »

Is there a difference between a normal Fourball and a Fourball better ball? :rolleyes:
I'm so long outta the game, I can't remember

Generally speaking a "fourball" is just a shortened version of saying fourball better ball.

Sandwlch

Daithio12 wrote: »

Generally speaking a "fourball" is just a shortened version of saying fourball better ball.

Not quite. 'Fourball' is clearly defined in the rules of golf and is quite sufficient. The 'betterball' appendage is just to cater for those ignorant of the distinction between Fourball, Foursomes, or Scotch Foursomes.

nocal

Sandwlch wrote: »

Not quite. 'Fourball' is clearly defined in the rules of golf and is quite sufficient. The 'betterball' appendage is just to cater for those ignorant of the distinction between Fourball, Foursomes, or Scotch Foursomes.

As opposed to distinguishing from an Aggregate Fourball?

Daithio12

Sandwlch wrote: »

Not quite. 'Fourball' is clearly defined in the rules of golf and is quite sufficient. The 'betterball' appendage is just to cater for those ignorant of the distinction between Fourball, Foursomes, or Scotch Foursomes.

Oh well excuse me!.;)

Daithio12

nocal wrote: »

As opposed to distinguishing from an Aggregate Fourball?

Never heard of such a thing.
Do you mean a two man team with both scores to count or fourman team with two scores to count?.

nocal

Daithio12 wrote: »

Never heard of such a thing.
Do you mean a two man team with both scores to count or fourman team with two scores to count?.

2 man team (thus it is a Fourball) with both scores to count. Full handicap allowance also.

Sandwlch

nocal wrote: »

As opposed to distinguishing from an Aggregate Fourball?

My point is that the distinction isnt really needed. If an Aggregate Fourball is intended, then Aggregate Fourball should be stated. But a Fourball, being defined specifically in the rules of golf as the game where only the better of the two partner's scores is counted, is accurately described as a 'Fourball' with no further elaboration.

ozymandias10

Four bal better ball is normally stableford... you can have fourball V Par....2 man teams sometimes also include two scores to count on some holes

BigChap1759

GreeBo wrote: »

huh? why would you do this? This gives the birdie guy a free run at it.
Better to let the par guy have a go and possibly miss, thus forcing birdie guy to two put at worst.

+1