Adding speciality grain to Coopers heritage Lager 3kg kit

Lars

Hi, this kit is my second brew. I've been reading the John Palmer 'How to Brew' book and I think I'd like to add some speciality grain to the kit to improve the quality of my beer. Can anyone advise on what I should be adding(and what the expected effect would be)?

Thanks

L

Mashtun

Lars wrote: »

Hi, this kit is my second brew. I've been reading the John Palmer 'How to Brew' book and I think I'd like to add some speciality grain to the kit to improve the quality of my beer. Can anyone advise on what I should be adding(and what the expected effect would be)?

Thanks

L

Don't know what type specialty grains Palmer talks about but that kit is suppose to replicate an aussie lager i think. I was just looking up recipes for australian lager and they seem to use the same malts as the european ones i.e. Pilsner Munich etc. so i guess if ya wanted to use these you could but i have no idea how the fermentables would be extracted and added to the kit. I presume that is covered in Palmer.

Any how it sounds like your inevitably heading down the all grain route so ya might as well just give in and start building your kit:p

mayto

If you steep some crystal malt and add liquid to the wort you will get extra sweetness/body in the beer but too much would have to be balanced with hops which could be tricky. For a beer kit I would dry hop your lager with a few oz of saaz hops or something similar and not bother with the crystal unless you use a small amount. For your next kit maybe have a look for the brupaks brewers choice kits. They are basically isomerised hops with steeping grains, just add 1kg of spraymalt and you should have a good beer.

BeerNut

Mashtun wrote: »

i.e. Pilsner Munich etc. so i guess if ya wanted to use these you could

Base malts like that would have to be mashed. The Cara- versions (CaraPils, CaraMunich etc) can just be steeped.

Mashtun

BeerNut wrote: »

Base malts like that would have to be mashed. The Cara- versions (CaraPils, CaraMunich etc) can just be steeped.

ah thats what the cara thing is all about

Lars

mayto wrote: »

If you steep some crystal malt and add liquid to the wort you will get extra sweetness/body in the beer but too much would have to be balanced with hops which could be tricky. For a beer kit I would dry hop your lager with a few oz of saaz hops or something similar and not bother with the crystal unless you use a small amount. For your next kit maybe have a look for the brupaks brewers choice kits. They are basically isomerised hops with steeping grains, just add 1kg of spraymalt and you should have a good beer.

thanks guys, but I'm totally green with this stuff and need clearer insructions. The kit i have contains Premium Selection Heritage Lager 1.7 Kg,
and Coopers Light Malt Extract Light 1.5 Kg and it says to simply boil water and add the two tins, then pitch yeast when cool enough. Palmer mentions a 'kit taste' due to staleness or something that can be much improved by addition of 'speciality grains'. How should I add the saaz hops? do they steep in a bag for 15 mins while boiling? do I need to steep at a specific temperature for a specific duration and how much exactly should I add(seems to come in 113g vacuum pack)? I'm considering splitting the kit in to two fermentation vessels before adding the hops so I can compare with and without and see what they do.

mayto

You add dry hops when the beer has about finished fermenting, preferably transfering beer to another fermenter and adding the hops. For whole hops sanitise a muslin bag with some boiling water and put hops in,tie bag put in fermenter. You can just put pellet hops straight in, they will sink to the bottom after a week. 25g should do but 50g for even more hop aroma

BeerNut

Lars wrote: »

it says to simply boil water and add the two tins, then pitch yeast when cool enough.

Do this.

Lars wrote: »

Palmer mentions a 'kit taste' due to staleness or something that can be much improved by addition of 'speciality grains'.

That's really unhelpful of Palmer. There's a vast array of specialty grains and they'll do radically different things to the beer. Personally I wouldn't bother with grains when hacking a kit: stick with hops or spices etc. If you're bothered about kit staleness and want to play with grains, then move to extract brewing.

Lars wrote: »

How should I add the saaz hops?

Just toss them in dry -- say 30g per 20L, a week before you bottle. If you put them in a hop sock they're easier to remove before you bottle, but if you leave them loose you can scoop them out with a sanitised sieve.

Lars wrote: »

I'm considering splitting the kit in to two fermentation vessels before adding the hops so I can compare with and without and see what they do.

Great idea.

Lars

Thanks guys, going to ad saaz hops to half my kit to see what they do. that means I'll be adding about 15g to 10 litres. They come vacuum packed, is the rest for the bin or can I ziplock bag and refrigerate, or freeze??

BeerNut

Lars wrote: »

can I ziplock bag and refrigerate, or freeze?

The big enemy is oxygen. Squeeze as much air as you can out of the bag, seal and freeze. I usually just tape up the pack they came in.

Lars

One more question, as I'm going to split the kit in two, is the quantity of yeast critical? i.e. should I divide the yeast sachet in half on the scales or should I simply pitch a sachet into each 12litre mix as I have some safale s-04(which I'm storing in the fridge)?

Thanks

L

BeerNut

Your best bet is to add the Saaz late: a week before bottling. So brew it as one big batch and then syphon off half of it into a secondary vessel to which you add the hops.

If you're determined to ferment the batches separately I think you will need two sachets of yeast, but S04 will give you a very different beer to the one that came with the kit which is probably quite neutral.

Lars

BeerNut wrote: »

brew it as one big batch and then syphon off half of it into a secondary vessel to which you add the hops.

Thanks that sounds like the simplest option

Lars

Thanks guys. Made a huge difference!!

psham

Hi Lars,
I'm just about to do something similar with my last beer kit ( going all grain after this) , its a coopers heritage larger as well.
Did you go with only sazz hops or did you add speciality grain as well..
What was the difference with or without, you said you were going to split the batch..

Lars

Hi Psham,
I split the batch as Beernut suggested and dry hopped half of it with 15 g saaz. I found it made a huge difference and wouldn't brew a kit without dry hopping again. The difference was more obvious at first tasting but appears to have mellowed a bit now. Still much better though. My chief taster said she much preferred the sazzy one. Didn't add any grains , just hops.
I'm still enjoying that beer. It's nothing like a lager but very nice kit.

L

psham

I 've just done the heritage kit... only difference I used saflager s-23 yeast and stuck it in a fridge at 12-13 degrees...
I'm going to wait till primary ferm is done (2wks approx). Rack then dry hop 30g saaz and drop temp to 8degrees for 3-4 wks for lagering..
Then bottle and add sugar to carbonate for 1-2 wks at 20-22 degrees.
Am I doing this right or does anyone have any other suggestions??

Mashtun

psham wrote: »

Then bottle and add sugar to carbonate for 1-2 wks at 20-22 degrees.

If the S-23 ur using is a regular lager yeast then you can store and carbonate the bottles at the 10-12°C like you did the fermentaiton. Apparently going above these temps can produce off flavours.

psham

Mashtun wrote: »

If the S-23 ur using is a regular lager yeast then you can store and carbonate the bottles at the 10-12°C like you did the fermentaiton. Apparently going above these temps can produce off flavours.

Thanks, (was wondering about that) makes perfect sense now!!

mayto

A lot of people carbonate their lagers at room temperature and they turn out fine. There is such a small amount of sugar fermented it really does not add any off flavours,well thats what they say . I made a pilsner during the winter and carbonated the bottles at about 18C and they turned out fine. I let the fermenter warm to about 17C after lagering and batch primed then. A batch priming calculator is handy.

psham

Just reading up on saflager yeast. It is recommend 2 11.5g sachets if fermenting at.12°.
I only put one it on Tues, would there be any need to add another sachet today or would I spoil it.
There's no bubbling up to an hour ago.

Mashtun

psham wrote: »

I only put one it on Tues, would there be any need to add another sachet today or would I spoil it.
There's no bubbling up to an hour ago.

The only way to reliably check fermentation is through specific gravity readings. If fermentation has started i don't see any need to pitch more yeast but there is probably no harm in it either

mayto

psham wrote: »

Just reading up on saflager yeast. It is recommend 2 11.5g sachets if fermenting at.12°.
I only put one it on Tues, would there be any need to add another sachet today or would I spoil it.
There's no bubbling up to an hour ago.

Its recommended alright to use two sachets of dry lager yeast as the yeast has to work alot harder at the lower fermentation temp. If it is fermenting already its probably ok but maybe another packet will help it along, not too sure.