Marathon training

Melanoma

Hi, I am a first time Marathon runner hopefully for Dublin city on 31st October.

I have a problem though. I started training on January 10th. So far I've mainly ran 5k training at faster paces. Today I ran a race in 26 minutes. It was ok but I had not a lot of kick for the last 800m like I'd hoped. I had trained last week four days straight but my back was sore after Monday so I only got a long sesssion in Saturday and it was 5 miles in 58 minutes including warm up.

Ok its like 9 years since I trained a lot when I was able to run three miles in 20 minutes on a treadmill and be back on the cross trainner or swiming ten minutes later. The fastest I ran was under 18 minutes.

So context wise there is an engine there (not trained now) but I had a severe back injury and some complications so only getting over that.

Ok so my problem!! I can train until June 20th by which time I should have done two half marathons. Then I am going on a walk for 5 weeks in spain. This will keep up fitness levels as I'll walk about 15 miles a day carring 10kg as I go.

Then I come back around the end of July. Do you think I can still get enough training done? I am a teacher so will have about three weeks left to do a lot of training in. I am 39, currently 84kg but will be 72kg by October.

Thanks,

Paul.

Krusty_Clown

Hi Paul, just my opinion, but I would forget about it. If 5k is your regular long run, then starting distance training in August is too late to comfortably run the Dublin marathon.

Why not focus on a marathon later in the year, or early next year? In the meantime, follow a training program and build on your 5k and 10k times. You 58 minute 5 mile run would suggest that you'd be looking at a 5:41 marathon. So focus on improving the fitness, losing the weight and set your sights on a marathon goal when you can commit to doing the training.

donothoponpop

Melanoma wrote: »

Hi, I am a first time Marathon runner hopefully for Dublin city on 31st October.

I have a problem though. I started training on January 10th. So far I've mainly ran 5k training at faster paces. Today I ran a race in 26 minutes. It was ok but I had not a lot of kick for the last 800m like I'd hoped. I had trained last week four days straight but my back was sore after Monday so I only got a long sesssion in Saturday and it was 5 miles in 58 minutes including warm up.

Ok its like 9 years since I trained a lot when I was able to run three miles in 20 minutes on a treadmill and be back on the cross trainner or swiming ten minutes later. The fastest I ran was under 18 minutes.

So context wise there is an engine there (not trained now) but I had a severe back injury and some complications so only getting over that.

Ok so my problem!! I can train until June 20th by which time I should have done two half marathons. Then I am going on a walk for 5 weeks in spain. This will keep up fitness levels as I'll walk about 15 miles a day carring 10kg as I go.

Then I come back around the end of July. Do you think I can still get enough training done? I am a teacher so will have about three weeks left to do a lot of training in. I am 39, currently 84kg but will be 72kg by October.

Thanks,

Paul.

From your post, you will be able to complete a marathon next October. But when you talk about training, fitness, engine, you are codding yourself. You'll be able to complete a marathon in the same way as a fast 80 year old jogger (for example) might be able to complete a marathon. If this sounds harsh to you (I don't mean it to be), you should re-examine your context:

"So far I've mainly ran 5k training at faster paces. Today I ran a race in 26 minutes." This is not a fast pace.

"so I only got a long sesssion in Saturday and it was 5 miles in 58 minutes including warm up." This is not a long session.

"Ok its like 9 years since I trained a lot when I was able to run three miles in 20 minutes on a treadmill and be back on the cross trainner or swiming ten minutes later. The fastest I ran was under 18 minutes." That's not a good result of training a lot.

"So context wise there is an engine there (not trained now) but I had a severe back injury and some complications so only getting over that." Again in context, for running a marathon you have not shown much "engine" (but engine enough to complete it).

"Ok so my problem!! I can train until June 20th by which time I should have done two half marathons. Then I am going on a walk for 5 weeks in spain. This will keep up fitness levels as I'll walk about 15 miles a day carring 10kg as I go." Walking 15 miles a day (carrying 10kg weight or not) is negligible in the context of decent marathon training.

KC's advice above is very good. You are not training enough to do yourself any justice in running a marathon. However, if you just want to tick a box that says "marathon", you can disregard any of this advice, and don't worry about the limited training you will be doing- there's no reason you won't get around. If you are more concerned with training hard and getting the best time you can do, this forum is very useful in terms of examples, programs, advice, etc.

Melanoma

Thanks guys I appreciate your straight forward advice. I'll keep training and see how I go. If I make good progress before the summer I'll ask again. Progress has been good going from a ten minute mile to a seven minute mile in 2.5 months but I lacked the motivation to get the longer runs. I often stopped or opted for more speed. Saturday night was a slow run, a trainning run. I ran 10 miles in 2.20 after two weeks trainning so first thing to do is get back to long slow runs and forget about the last mile in 5k or a one mile speed. A german friend told me to stop doing short runs all the time and go longer and leave speed to the race. I reckon the 5k time will go down if I get more endurance longer runs in. The only run I've done that I was out of breath on was the one mile 7 min. I'm still holding back alot but I'm not ready to go full belt that will come later.

Regardless of how I do I'll keep trainning. I cant put off the walk but yes maybe a later marathon is more realistic. I am worried about it getting away from me but if I keep training and increase the distances it will happen. Its a good idea to start thinking about realistic trainning schedules though so thanks again. Meanwhile no beer, totally changed diet 5kg down since Christmas, there is a lot to be happy about. I have experience of going from zero to fast before (but not distance) and maybe that wont happen but I'll be greatful for whatever comes if I can keep running.

Oryx

Think about you comment where you say you lacked the motivation for the longer runs. Marathon runners love long runs, youve got to love them to commit to training at distance. Short runs will not prepare you for a marathon. If I were you Id ask myself why I was aiming for marathon at all, if you dont like long distance. You might find something else to suit your training and motivation better.

Clearlier

A couple of suggestions:

Regardless of whether you do Dublin this year or not I'd suggest changing your goals to time rather than distance, i.e. if you can do a 90 min every week at the moment start adding 5 mins each week.

Run one day a week at a comfortably hard pace - you should be breathing hard but able to say the odd word without actually having a conversation. Start at 20 minutes or less and add 2 mins per week.

Otherwise as much easy running as you can.

The key is to gradually increase your level of training. You want to get into the habit of running 5 - 6 days a week no matter how short those runs are initially. If you're feeling tired/any kind of niggle take a down week where you reduce your time by 20%. Even if you don't it's probably wise to take one every fourth week given that you've had a serious back injury. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll progress.

On your walking holiday why don't you do a really scaled down version of your training with short runs before or after the walking?

elnino23

Clearlier wrote: »

A couple of suggestions:

If you're feeling tired/any kind of niggle take a down week where you reduce your time by 20%. Even if you don't it's probably wise to take one every fourth week given that you've had a serious back injury. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll progress.


Clearlier
im training for my first marathon and am runing 5 days a week with a long run on sundays gradually building mileage fir instance i ran a half marathon sunday and will run 15 next two sundays then 17 etc all the way up to 22 b4 my two week taper and im running 7 and 8 miles twice in the week as well as two shorter 4milers
however i have a niggle in my hip and arch of my foot, are you saying if i just tone down my pace but keep the same distances the niggle will improve?
im only 9 weeks away from the race and feel apart from the niggle my fitness is well up there the half yesterday was no bother altho i did run it a min a mile slower than my intended mara pace, im worried any time out of training at this stage will badly effect my fitness, what do you think?
thanks

Clearlier

elnino23 wrote: »

Clearlier wrote: »

A couple of suggestions:

If you're feeling tired/any kind of niggle take a down week where you reduce your time by 20%. Even if you don't it's probably wise to take one every fourth week given that you've had a serious back injury. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll progress.


Clearlier
im training for my first marathon and am runing 5 days a week with a long run on sundays gradually building mileage fir instance i ran a half marathon sunday and will run 15 next two sundays then 17 etc all the way up to 22 b4 my two week taper and im running 7 and 8 miles twice in the week as well as two shorter 4milers
however i have a niggle in my hip and arch of my foot, are you saying if i just tone down my pace but keep the same distances the niggle will improve?
im only 9 weeks away from the race and feel apart from the niggle my fitness is well up there the half yesterday was no bother altho i did run it a min a mile slower than my intended mara pace, im worried any time out of training at this stage will badly effect my fitness, what do you think?
thanks

First off, it's important to note that I have no qualifications other than experience and reading what others have done.

What I suggested for Melanoma is an approach to base training. When he/she gets closer to the target marathon it would be a good idea to look at a marathon specific plan.

It sounds like you're already into the marathon specific stage if you're 9 weeks away from your race so as you've mentioned it's a little less palatable to be taking down weeks every time you feel a niggle. If you're following a plan written by somebody else then I'd expect that some kind of down week will be built in at least once every 6 weeks? Either way I'd look at seeing a physio about your niggles ASAP and getting professional advice. They should be able to give you advice about stretching and strength work which will help.

In terms of how to actually do a down week - you reduce the volume of running rather than the pace/intensity. If you're doing it because of a niggle I'd consider reducing the intensity too but if it's a scheduled down week and you're feeling ok I'd leave the intensity at the same level.

Good luck!

tHE vAGGABOND

I got crazy into running end of last year, like yourself from nothing at all, doing couch to 5k and going from there. What I did was built up too much too soon and went from running nothing to doing 8/9/10 miles in a few months. As a result I have had a succession of small and really annoying over use injuries to my knees and around there..

So seriously, stick to the "increase by only 10% every week" rule - even tho you may well feel you can do more, your body has to learn to adjust, its a new sensation for your legs and new muscles/ligaments/tendons your using a lot - so if you "abuse" them, they will go mad

elnino23

Clearlier wrote: »

elnino23 wrote: »

First off, it's important to note that I have no qualifications other than experience and reading what others have done.

What I suggested for Melanoma is an approach to base training. When he/she gets closer to the target marathon it would be a good idea to look at a marathon specific plan.

It sounds like you're already into the marathon specific stage if you're 9 weeks away from your race so as you've mentioned it's a little less palatable to be taking down weeks every time you feel a niggle. If you're following a plan written by somebody else then I'd expect that some kind of down week will be built in at least once every 6 weeks? Either way I'd look at seeing a physio about your niggles ASAP and getting professional advice. They should be able to give you advice about stretching and strength work which will help.

In terms of how to actually do a down week - you reduce the volume of running rather than the pace/intensity. If you're doing it because of a niggle I'd consider reducing the intensity too but if it's a scheduled down week and you're feeling ok I'd leave the intensity at the same level.

Good luck!

clearlier
Yeah i have a rest ish week built in next week altho im still doing a 15miler on the sunday but the mid week stuff is toned down for that week and my taper is atually three weeks so i sure i can get the niggles sorted with out down time.
got new compression tights today which have helped massively with the hip niggle i cant even feel it after todays 6miler
wondering is the arch problem to do with my shoes so off to see the local running store at the weekend to get some pro advice on that

Anyway thanks for your time and reply
happy running

Mr Slow

As said above get yourself a solid endurance base where you can comfortably run at least one 10 mile run every week and still be fresh that day, then look at starting to train for a marathon, I jumped in with both feet last year and survived, but it may not have gone that way. I have a client who did exactly what I did and spent the last 12 miles of DCM in agony and only came off his crutches last week.

Respect the Distance.