What has been behind the decline in Wexford hurling ?

wexfordia

I'm not a GAA fan as such but I have wondered about the reasons behind their decline. The All Ireland triumph in 96 is almost 15 years ago and they seem farther than ever away from winning the Liam McCarthy again. Thoughts ??

ShamoBuc

wexfordia wrote: »

I'm not a GAA fan as such but I have wondered about the reasons behind their decline. The All Ireland triumph in 96 is almost 15 years ago and they seem farther than ever away from winning the Liam McCarthy again. Thoughts ??

A little perspective might explain it. They have only ever won 6 Liam Mccarthy cups I think and it was 28 years since they won it, prior to 1996!

good win today though, but no cups were given out;)

wexfordia

ShamoBuc wrote: »

A little perspective might explain it. They have only ever won 6 Liam Mccarthy cups I think and it was 28 years since they won it, prior to 1996!

good win today though, but no cups were given out;)

Fair point Shamo Buc ! Still though hurling does appear to have declined a fair bit.

ShamoBuc

Well only 5 different counties have won it since ye - Offaly, Tip, Cork, Clare and someother county;)

Hurling in wexford is like hurling in many other counties. A team capable of winning Liam comes around every 20 odd years or so. Just the way it is. The thread title could have alot of other names in there instead of wexford's to be fair.

wexfordia

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Well only 5 different counties have won it since ye - Offaly, Tip, Cork, Clare and someother county;)

Hurling in wexford is like hurling in many other counties. A team capable of winning Liam comes around every 20 odd years or so. Just the way it is. The thread title could have alot of other names in there instead of wexford's to be fair.

Other county ? Wasn't that place beginning with the letter 'K' ?

ShamoBuc

wexfordia wrote: »

Other county ? Wasn't that place beginning with the letter 'K' ?

just in case you are thinking kildare or kerry - afraid it's the other one!

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

just in case you are thinking kildare or kerry - afraid it's the other one!

As Charlie George said on the Arsenal stadium tour i went on once while referring to Spurs 'That shower up the road - I wont mention who they are'

Wexford have produced some of the greatest players in the game. The Rackards, Damien Fitzhenry and Tony Doran to name a few.

That team of 1996 were a very hard team to beat and it wasn't so long ago in 2004 they beat 'that crowd' before going on to win Leinster . The Jacobs for example would probably have All Ireland medals with any of the big three.

I reckon the competition from other sports may have affected the production line in Wexford. Youngsters see fellow Wexicans like Gordon D'Arcy, Kevin Doyle, etc excelling at rugby and soccer respectively and want to emulate them. Additionally from a marketing point of view Mick Wallace has probably promoted soccer in Wexford better then the Wexford GAA are doing with hurling and football.

I will say that they have recognised the problem to an extent and George O'Connor is a good man to have overseeing development in the county as he has great love for the game.

I hope they can comeback soon as the game is worse off for the lack of a good Wexford side. if them and Offaly and perhaps even Carlow could get competitive teams together then we could see a very competitive Leinster in the future.

hurling_lad

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Well only 5 different counties have won it since ye - Offaly, Tip, Cork, Clare and someother county;)

Hurling in wexford is like hurling in many other counties. A team capable of winning Liam comes around every 20 odd years or so. Just the way it is. The thread title could have alot of other names in there instead of wexford's to be fair.

A similar thread on Cork hurling would be fully justified - just can't bring myself to start it.

paul75

A lot of the experts (Liam Griffin) blame the structures in Wexford. They are archaic and not conducive to developing the game in the county - especially youth development.
They had good spells in every decade since the 50's but you have to remember that these spells were respites to absolutely dreadful periods of cr@pness.

ShamoBuc

hurling_lad wrote: »

A similar thread on Cork hurling would be fully justified - just can't bring myself to start it.

so you think the plight of hurling in Cork is the same as it is in Wexford - Really:eek:


We are certainly not at our best in recent years but calm down a little to be fair. I've a feeling Liam will visit Leeside alot sooner than the vast majority of counties in Ireland.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

so you think the plight of hurling in Cork is the same as it is in Wexford - Really:eek:


We are certainly not at our best in recent years but calm down a little to be fair. I've a feeling Liam will visit Leeside alot sooner than the vast majority of counties in Ireland.

To be honest Cork have a great crop of youngsters coming through and probably could have won u21 last year had Seamus Hennessey not converted that penalty. Cork have the numbers hurling and a good coaching infrastructure but Wexford have declined a worrying amount. I would say even Carlow and Laois are in a healthier state hurling wise.

Pride Fighter

I think its because youth has not been given a chance. Since 1996 you had many of the more experienced playing all the time instead of new players getting a look in. The managers did this to succeed as good as they can with their current team rather than look years down the road.

Contrast that with Dublin, year after year, youngfellas being beaten out the door in senior, but the same youngfellas beating the likes of Kilkenny when they'd play U-21. Now those youngfellas are young men, drawing with Kilkenny, beating Tipp in the league. Getting to a Leinster final 2 years ago.

I think Wexford can get back, but they have a long road ahead.

purplepanda

The game has gone backwards in the county since '96, the county board failed to promote the success when they had the chance & hence stagnation.

The CB failed to listen to the advice from people like Liam Griffin & many ex players, whom seem to be outside the main spheres of influence that makes decisions that matter.

Meanwhile others have updated their structures whilst we had our heads in the sand!!!!!!!

Pity we don't have a land border with Kilkenny, we could sneak across & kidnap a few players & coaches, however with only 2 road bridges they always will know when we are coming:mad:

Always surprises me that a lot of the western side of the county is of a lower Hurling standard than other Wexford areas despite being on the Kilkenny border?? There's not one senior top division club in the New Ross district for example.

hurling_lad

ShamoBuc wrote: »

so you think the plight of hurling in Cork is the same as it is in Wexford - Really:eek:


We are certainly not at our best in recent years but calm down a little to be fair. I've a feeling Liam will visit Leeside alot sooner than the vast majority of counties in Ireland.

Relative to their norms (i.e. Cork generally being competitive at All-Ireland level, Wexford generally being competitive at Provincial level) they are both in a similar trough at the moment I reckon and, depending on draws, there would be short odds that Cork will get no more than one round further in this year's championship than Wexford.

blindsider

I think the biggest single reason for the decline in Wexford hurling is the inability to find a manager of the calibre of Liam Griffin.

I'm certainly not saying that he won the MacCarthy Cup by himself, but he was instrumental in its winning.

We have had a good crop of players since 96, but no-one has been capable of turning them into an all-Ireland winning team.

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I think its because youth has not been given a chance. Since 1996 you had many of the more experienced playing all the time instead of new players getting a look in. The managers did this to succeed as good as they can with their current team rather than look years down the road.

Contrast that with Dublin, year after year, youngfellas being beaten out the door in senior, but the same youngfellas beating the likes of Kilkenny when they'd play U-21. Now those youngfellas are young men, drawing with Kilkenny, beating Tipp in the league. Getting to a Leinster final 2 years ago.

I think Wexford can get back, but they have a long road ahead.

I think you make a fair point there. There was no one to challenge the Larry's (O'Gorman and Murphy), Liam Dunne, Adrian Fenlon, the Guiney twins or Damien Fitzhenry for places which signals that the selectors may not have trusted some of the young players. Daragh Ryan who was a super full back quit at only 29. A crying shame.
Wexford's big adversary has been mostly themselves. Dublin had no real choice but to trust the young players but Wexford had luxury of an all Ireland winning team and like Offaly made the mistake of not freshening things up.

Back in 2007 i can remember Wexford putting up a fantastic display and knocking Tipp out of the championship. Granted Tipp were no great shakes at the time and Kelly, Shane McGrath and Cummins were stupidly dropped, but we still had the likes of Lar Corbett and Declan Fanning in the side.

I can remember them winning Leinster in 2004 as well after catching Kilkenny with a last gasp goal after putting up a heroic performance.

I think they have had one or two coaches that have done a decent job and have been treated shabbily. John Conran got a few spirited performances out of them and was discarded and John Meyler was treated abysmally.

Speak Now

wexfordia wrote: »

I'm not a GAA fan as such but I have wondered about the reasons behind their decline. The All Ireland triumph in 96 is almost 15 years ago and they seem farther than ever away from winning the Liam McCarthy again. Thoughts ??

Still you've won it more recent than Limerick,Waterford and Galway

Jerry Seinfeld

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Still you've won it more recent than Limerick,Waterford and Galway

That's Very true but i suppose in Galway's case they are continuously putting through a conveyor belt of talent at minor and u21 level just to find the right blend to convert it to senior level is all it requires. The concern wouldn't be there with Wexford if they could emulate Galway in that sense.

Limerick are bringing through young players also. They won the u21 three years in a row between 2000 and 2002. Waterford have a good school in De La Salle and have competed at provincial level at both minor and under 21 the last few years. In 2009 they won the Munster minor title and lost to Clare in the u21 Munster decider. The likes of Shane Fives and Noel Connors were on that team. The new generation i suppose you could say have been inspired by the seniors emergence as contenders the last decade.

LeoB

From what I have heard not enough is being done at underage level. I have no evidence for this but parochialism might be having an effect, are the best players being picked? I do think Colm Bonnar will bring them on but currently Wexford has also seen other sports take a grip around bigger urban centres with Rugby and soccer doing well.

From a hurling point of view one thing that has not helped the small ball lads was the emergence of the footballers which in fairness not many saw it coming.. In Matty Forde Wexford have one of the best footballers of all time who the kids wanted to follow while the Hurlers were struggling and got Kilkenny on a bad day to win Leinster. This bore fruit with the U/21s recent performances most of whom were 12 or 13 when Matty started to blaze his trail. Do Wexford have a hurler with the pulling power of Matty? It will take time but really what Wexford need is some serious work with regional development squads and if the work is put in the work will pay off in time.

The Wexican

There is still a pulse. Faint but it's still there.

Fair play to the lads for regrouping after the Offaly game, and getting the required results. Hard luck to offaly though, another spell in Division 2 will do them nor the game any good.

TheMilkyPirate

LeoB wrote: »

From what I have heard not enough is being done at underage level. I have no evidence for this but parochialism might be having an effect, are the best players being picked? I do think Colm Bonnar will bring them on but currently Wexford has also seen other sports take a grip around bigger urban centres with Rugby and soccer doing well.

From a hurling point of view one thing that has not helped the small ball lads was the emergence of the footballers which in fairness not many saw it coming.. In Matty Forde Wexford have one of the best footballers of all time who the kids wanted to follow while the Hurlers were struggling and got Kilkenny on a bad day to win Leinster. This bore fruit with the U/21s recent performances most of whom were 12 or 13 when Matty started to blaze his trail. Do Wexford have a hurler with the pulling power of Matty? It will take time but really what Wexford need is some serious work with regional development squads and if the work is put in the work will pay off in time.

No.

LeoB

baraca wrote: »

No.

The same can be said of many counties when you talk to people at games. But what is the reason behind it?

There are plenty of lads with ability but who are not prepared to put in the work. They get away with it at club level but the step up is just to much for some who want to go out on a Saturday night or go travelling or working overseas during the summer months and thats fair enough but when you have a small pool to pick from it makes it very difficult to compete with the top counties every year.

Great to see Wexford staying in Division 1 but Offally folk might not be as happy this morning. There is also the fact that other counties are putting in some serious work over the last few years Dublin today are a prime example of that and Carlow, Antrim and Down have also improved considerably.

Bbbbolger

I think a lot of it is down to the attitude of a lot of people involved in the underage Wexford County set-up. In Wexford most teenagers play hurling, football and either soccer or rugby. Some play all four. Too many people in the hurling set-up try to discourage the lads from playing other sports. When you're a young lad trying to decide which sport you would prefer to keep playing, having a hurling coach telling you you have to quit all other sports if you want to keep hurling isn't going to make you want to stay. Take this years minor set up for example. Although it's adamantly denied, the minor hurling manager tried to stop players from playing all other sports, whereas the minor football manager tried his best to accomodate all players involved with other teams. That has a very big impression on a young lad when it comes to making a choice. Some people may ask me for evidence of this but unfortunately I dont have any. I have experienced this though and can tell you it's the honest truth.

LeoB

Bbbbolger wrote: »

I think a lot of it is down to the attitude of a lot of people involved in the underage Wexford County set-up. In Wexford most teenagers play hurling, football and either soccer or rugby. Some play all four. Too many people in the hurling set-up try to discourage the lads from playing other sports. When you're a young lad trying to decide which sport you would prefer to keep playing, having a hurling coach telling you you have to quit all other sports if you want to keep hurling isn't going to make you want to stay. Take this years minor set up for example. Although it's adamantly denied, the minor hurling manager tried to stop players from playing all other sports, whereas the minor football manager tried his best to accomodate all players involved with other teams. That has a very big impression on a young lad when it comes to making a choice. Some people may ask me for evidence of this but unfortunately I dont have any. I have experienced this though and can tell you it's the honest truth.

Thats a good post and I Agree with you and it happens in more than Wexford.

Hurling people are very pasionate and that great and I admire them but young lads have choices and its common when it rammed down their throats they walk away. I have witnessed this in quite a few clubs and its sad to see but unfortunatley the passion of the mentors blinds them to what is happening.

We had this in my club and it took us a while to see what was happening and how it impacted on our club, we lost more than hurlers as a result. Now we work around it and only the players decide. Its hard for them but we have to stand by their decisions. Its also hard on managers/coachs

Magi11

paul75 wrote: »

A lot of the experts (Liam Griffin) blame the structures in Wexford. They are archaic and not conducive to developing the game in the county - especially youth development.
They had good spells in every decade since the 50's but you have to remember that these spells were respites to absolutely dreadful periods of cr@pness.

Liam Griffin was once asked what Kilkenny person would he like to transfer to Wexford. The county board chairman was his answer. Proof that he feels the problems lie off the pitch

adrian522

To be fair to Wexford I feel they have sorted out a lot of their issues with their structures in recent years with the Hurling board.

In essence they now have a very similar setup to Kilkenny and and a lot of excellent work is being done in the clubs and in schools.

But there is no quick fix and there will not be any effect in the senior team for about 10 years I would say.

Better late than never though.

paul75

adrian522 wrote: »

To be fair to Wexford I feel they have sorted out a lot of their issues with their structures in recent years with the Hurling board.

In essence they now have a very similar setup to Kilkenny and and a lot of excellent work is being done in the clubs and in schools.

But there is no quick fix and there will not be any effect in the senior team for about 10 years I would say.

Better late than never though.

I'm not too sure about that. I heard Liam Griffen on the radio about two weeks ago and he was still lamenting the lack of progress.
I agree, it will take 6 years at least to see anything at minor level.

adrian522

Their minors haven't been too bad in recent years running both Dublin and Galway close.

Interstying to see how they get on against kilkenny this year..

The Wexican

The minor performances have improved a lot in recent years, however they're still coming up short on the big day, similar with the U21's last year against Dublin. They had the winning of the game with 5 minutes to go, but the Dubs had the know how and confidence from previous underage sucesses to pull away when it mattered.

Until we can start winning titles at underage like Dublin we will struggle to make the breakthrough at senior level, as sucess here would build the players confidence and belief in being able to achieve. If you look at the the key players in the 96 winning team, a number of these would have been on the last minor team to win Leinster in 85, and won Leinster at U21 level in 86 & 87.

ebbsy

The Wexican wrote: »

There is still a pulse. Faint but it's still there.

Fair play to the lads for regrouping after the Offaly game, and getting the required results. Hard luck to offaly though, another spell in Division 2 will do them nor the game any good.

Well its nothing to do with the good of the game, they are in Division 2 because they are not good enogh for top flight hurling. Certainly I would expect Wicklow to pick up 2 points against them.

The reason why Wexford stayed up was because once they found out that the Garden County were promoted they did'nt want a drubbing in Arklow next year.

CILL MHAINTAIN ABU