Complaints about a teacher

Rosita

This is a bit of a sensitive one. I have a tutor group (Junior cycle class) in my school and one of them came up to me recently and said his mother wanted to speak to me "as you told her at the parent teacher meeting to contact you if she had any issues".

When I asked him what it was about, he said it was another teacher. Before he went any further I suggested that his mother ring the Deputy Principal if she had an issue in that regard as I felt it was inappropriate for me to get involved.

Anyway, a few days later one of the group came to me with an issue too and said he was speaking on behalf of the entire group - which he was as they were with him - and said he wanted to complain about a teacher. The original pupil confirmed (unsolicited by me) that the same teacher was the subject of the mother's concerns.

I entertained the complaints only to a limited extent as I didn't want it to develop into an entire character assassination of an individual not there to defend themselves and to provide some context for it all - I have seen myself how desperately unfair and unreasonable pupils can be, how they will swear black is white to defend their position, and how difficult it is for a person to either express or infer context properly in relation to incidents.

Yet, I have sworn to look after the interests of this group as far as I can and to act as a conduit/buffer between them and even the Year Head where possible. That is to say, keep them out of hassle if possible and help them rather than admonish them in the way that the Year Head inevitably needs to do. In other words I always encourage them to be open on issues. I did say to them before I knew what the issue was that I'd listen but could not guarantee in advance that I could help.

Anyway, there's nothing extraordinary about the case; it relates to a lot of low level stuff such as perceived unfair treatment, everyone getting bad results and some other things I won't mention as it might indirectly identify the person for some readers. To be honest I have heard students in other years complain about the same teacher.

As you can imagine in this case it is difficult for me. It would seem inappropriate for me to deal directly with my colleague but I hate going behind their back either as I know - as already mentioned - how terribly unfair and self-serving pupils can be...like the guys who always claim they got into trouble for "nothing". Yet, I feel I have a duty to the pupils to do as I promised and help with their concerns.

The 'allegations' are vague and have a strong flavour of the standard pupil mantra 'it's not fair' - so I'd like to deal with it in a way that causes as little grief as possible but that does deal with it. Part of me is tempted to intervene discreetly with the teacher but I'd hate them to think I was getting notions of myself and judging them. On the other hand it seems horrible to hand it straight to the Deputy Principal, as a teacher friend (not in the school) suggested. Any advice would be appreciated.

2011abc

CAPS FOR CLARITY -NOT 'SHOUTING'

Rosita wrote: »

I didn't want it to develop into an entire character assassination of an individual not there to defend themselves SOUNDS LIKE IT HAS ...! and to provide some context for it all - I have seen myself how desperately unfair and unreasonable pupils can be, how they will swear black is white to defend their position, and how difficult it is for a person to either express or infer context properly in relation to incidents.

Yet, I have sworn (WHILE BEING CLASS TUTOR IS A COMMENDABLE UNDERTAKING IT SOUNDS LIKE YOURE TAKING IT very SERIOUSLY!) to look after the interests of this group as far as I can and to act as a conduit/buffer between them and even the Year Head where possible. That is to say, keep them out of hassle if possible and help them rather than admonish them in the way that the Year Head inevitably needs to do. In other words I always encourage them to be open on issues. I did say to them before I knew what the issue was that I'd listen but could not guarantee in advance that I could help.

Anyway, there's nothing extraordinary about the case; it relates to a lot of low level stuff such as perceived unfair treatment, everyone getting bad results and some other things I won't mention as it might indirectly identify the person for some readers. To be honest I have heard students in other years complain about the same teacher.(SO THEY must BE 'GUILTY' THEN?)

As you can imagine in this case it is difficult for me. It would seem inappropriate for me to deal directly with my colleague but I hate going behind their back either as I know - as already mentioned - how terribly unfair and self-serving pupils can be...like the guys who always claim they got into trouble for "nothing". Yet, I feel I have a duty to the pupils YOU ALSO HAVE A 'DUTY' TO YOUR COLLEAGUES to do as I promised and help with their concerns.

The 'allegations' are vague and have a strong flavour of the standard pupil mantra 'it's not fair' - so I'd like to deal with it in a way that causes as little grief as possible but that does deal with it. Part of me is tempted to intervene discreetly with the teacher but I'd hate them to think I was getting notions of myself and judging them. On the other hand it seems horrible to hand it straight to the Deputy Principal, as a teacher friend (not in the school) suggested. Any advice would be appreciated.

THIS SORT OF THING IS RIFE IN SCHOOLS NOWADAYS.THE KIDS FEEL THEY ARE RUNNING THE PLACE ,OF COURSE THEY ARENT... THEIR 'UNDERPERFORMING' PARENTS ARE AS MANY PRINCIPALS WONT STAND UP TO THEM FOR FEAR OF LITIGATION.IN THE VERY VAST MAJORITY OF CASES WHERE A TEACHER IS 'STRUGGLING' THE KIDS' INDISCIPLINE IS THE ROOT CAUSE .I'VE KNOWN OF A CASE WHEN A CHILD OF 'RESPECTABLE' PARENTS OPENLY BOASTED ROUND THE SCHOOL THEY WERE GOING TO GET A TEACHER FIRED ....AND DID !

Today a mother was in 'screaming' at secretary in her pyjamas ... S.N.A.F.U...

delta_bravo

Rosita wrote: »

The 'allegations' are vague and have a strong flavour of the standard pupil mantra 'it's not fair' - so I'd like to deal with it in a way that causes as little grief as possible but that does deal with it. Part of me is tempted to intervene discreetly with the teacher but I'd hate them to think I was getting notions of myself and judging them. On the other hand it seems horrible to hand it straight to the Deputy Principal, as a teacher friend (not in the school) suggested. Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm only in this game a year but your first suggestion sounds like a really bad idea. This issue is nothing to do with you except that you were first made aware of it. Refer to the year head and if that doesn't work you could mention it to the deputy but personally I wouldn't be taking this on as a personal objective. The last thing you want is to be caught in the middle of this.

Maybe tell the child you need a note or letter from the parent to progress the issue.

Rosita

2011abc wrote: »

1) Yet, I have sworn (WHILE BEING CLASS TUTOR IS A COMMENDABLE UNDERTAKING IT SOUNDS LIKE YOURE TAKING IT very SERIOUSLY!) to look after the interests of this group as far as I can and to act as a conduit/buffer between them and even the Year Head where possible.

2) To be honest I have heard students in other years complain about the same teacher.(SO THEY must BE 'GUILTY' THEN?)

3) Yet, I feel I have a duty to the pupils YOU ALSO HAVE A 'DUTY' TO YOUR COLLEAGUES to do as I promised and help with their concerns.

1) You are reading far too much into relatively loosely chosen words. When I 'swore' it wasn't a masonic ritual or anything.

2) As it happens the teacher is guilty of an accusation of the other students and of the same one raised by this group,and was challenged on the matter by a parent at a parent-teacher meeting.

3) Yes, why do you think I am raising the matter here rather than charging in to take my 'sworn duty' with utmost seriousness and sod the consequences?

You haven't actually addressed my questions but the implication from your comments seems to be to circle the wagons and do nothing. To some extent you might have a point because as you have said - and I already said - much of what pupils and parents say and do is usually terribly unfair. I had to listen to a parent today describing a student's intellectual capacity and classroom behaviour in a way that I found unrecognisable as someone teaching him for the last seven months.

Perhaps encouraging the students to examine themselves would be the best thing to do.

floating voter

Ask yourself what you want to achieve in this situation.

a)Do you want this problem sorted so that the complainants become happy.

Extremely difficult if the 'offending' teacher is full time and digs their heels in.
This is a job for management and if it is a serious complaint you may have a duty of care to inform management. Child protection guidelines state that you sould not try to sort issues yourself and you should never 'promise to sort things out' or to keep things secret.

You may need to look at your professional distance if this is a fairly minor matter. The correct channel for minor issues would be parent to teacher, parent to year head or parent to management

b)Do you just want to be fair to the spirit of your class tutor duties and 'flag' the issue.

Advise the students that concerns should be brought up with parents. Have a quiet chat with colleague that this is brewing ( remember this person may be totally innocent)

Again I would stress take a look at your professional distance. You have very little juristiction here and engaging in 'rescue fantasy' or 'home and away teacher' behaviour is not required where parents can complain to management. Children should be encouraged to use this channel.

doc_17

My advice would be to stay well away from it....

Refer the students (or the parents) to the Deputy or Principal. That's what they are there for.

byhookorbycrook

Taking the student side against a colleague is a dodgy one. Tell them you are lsitening to them but that it is up to the student/parent to follow it up with the said teacher.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

This is a bit of a sensitive one. I have a tutor group (Junior cycle class) in my school and one of them came up to me recently and said his mother wanted to speak to me "as you told her at the parent teacher meeting to contact you if she had any issues".

When I asked him what it was about, he said it was another teacher. Before he went any further I suggested that his mother ring the Deputy Principal if she had an issue in that regard as I felt it was inappropriate for me to get involved.

Anyway, a few days later one of the group came to me with an issue too and said he was speaking on behalf of the entire group - which he was as they were with him - and said he wanted to complain about a teacher. The original pupil confirmed (unsolicited by me) that the same teacher was the subject of the mother's concerns.

You are not in a position to sort this out. I would be telling the first pupil that approached you that either his/her mother write a letter to the principal outlining her concerns and/or request an appointment to discuss the matter.

Rosita wrote: »

Yet, I have sworn to look after the interests of this group as far as I can and to act as a conduit/buffer between them and even the Year Head where possible. That is to say, keep them out of hassle if possible and help them rather than admonish them in the way that the Year Head inevitably needs to do. In other words I always encourage them to be open on issues. I did say to them before I knew what the issue was that I'd listen but could not guarantee in advance that I could help.

Anyway, there's nothing extraordinary about the case; it relates to a lot of low level stuff such as perceived unfair treatment, everyone getting bad results and some other things I won't mention as it might indirectly identify the person for some readers. To be honest I have heard students in other years complain about the same teacher.

I don't know what your duties involve as Class Tutor, but this certainly shouldn't be one of them. Maybe perhaps wait for the one student to get back to you and let you know what his mother has chosen to do. As for the rest of the class, well they are making complaints to you, but how strongly do they really feel about it? If what they say merits attention, surely they should be asking their parents to contact the school. I would explain to them that you are there to help them with whatever issues are within your remit but for something of this nature it has to be referred to management and possibly their parents need to have some input.

Rosita wrote: »

As you can imagine in this case it is difficult for me. It would seem inappropriate for me to deal directly with my colleague but I hate going behind their back either as I know - as already mentioned - how terribly unfair and self-serving pupils can be...like the guys who always claim they got into trouble for "nothing". Yet, I feel I have a duty to the pupils to do as I promised and help with their concerns.

The 'allegations' are vague and have a strong flavour of the standard pupil mantra 'it's not fair' - so I'd like to deal with it in a way that causes as little grief as possible but that does deal with it. Part of me is tempted to intervene discreetly with the teacher but I'd hate them to think I was getting notions of myself and judging them. On the other hand it seems horrible to hand it straight to the Deputy Principal, as a teacher friend (not in the school) suggested. Any advice would be appreciated.

I would not under any circumstances deal with the teacher directly. God knows what can of worms you would be opening. You can probably predict the response anyway, regardless of what actually goes on in the class.

Perhaps if it was something specific like the teacher teaches the class science and coursework B is due in next week you can bring it to the notice of the DP in a non-accusatory way 'I have been approached by 3B as a class group who are concerned that they will not have enough time to finish their coursework before the deadline. Can you look into it and perhaps facilitate them in some way?' Nobody is being accused of anything and if indeed the teacher is at fault as you have heard stuff from other classes, you can be sure the DP is already well aware of this situation and might sort something out.


However, I'm leaning far more towards encouraging the students to get their parents to deal with DP or indeed make an appointment to see the teacher to discuss their child's progress in this particular class.

uriah

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Taking the student side against a colleague is a dodgy one. Tell them you are lsitening to them but that it is up to the student/parent to follow it up with the said teacher.

Tell those students that they or their parents will have to deal with this problem, and that the best procedure is for the complainant(s) to approach the teacher directly.If this does not solve their problem, they must then approach the principal.

If they feel unable to do this, then parent(s) should do so.
This is the 'informal' stage of the agreed complaints procedure.

Should they wish to go directly to the formal stage, they could put their complaints/concerns in writing to the principal.

Unless the pupils are being abused, you have no role in this. Give those pupils the information they need to process their complaint properly, and then stay out of it.

E.T.

Absolutely agree that you should not deal with the matter in any way yourself. You should tell the students that if they have a serious complaint, it needs to be made in a proper fashion - there is a specific complaints procedure that HAS to be followed.

I don't know what type of secondary school you're working in, but if you google you'll find it no problem. I'd tell the students involved that they need to talk to their parents and inform them of the complaints procedure. If I was in your situation I'd also inform the principal of the situation. It could come back to bite you if a formal complaint is made and the informal complaint comes to light and the principal hasn't been informed.

Rosita

floating voter wrote: »

Ask yourself what you want to achieve in this situation.

a)Do you want this problem sorted so that the complainants become happy.

b)Do you just want to be fair to the spirit of your class tutor duties and 'flag' the issue.

The answer here is (b). As for (a) goes it is impossible to guarantee that anyone would be happy with any particular outcome so that would be setting the bar too high.

But I also want to be sure that the students continue to have someone they feel comfortable raising issues with (bullying, some issues outside school - to give just some examples of stuff that has cropped up) as I think that's only a good thing.

Ultimately above all else I want to do my job but in this case is it slightly unclear exactly what that job is or at least how it should be best done given the conflict of interests. The suggestion of 'rescue fantasy' or any other possible implied ulterior motives are unfortunate and don't come into it - my motives are quite humble and straightforward.

But I feel awkward even tipping off the other teacher as even though I spent the conversation with the pupils being devil's advocate and asking them what they thought their role might have been, the teacher might assume - like the first person to reply here - that I merely facilitated a character assassination.

I think suggesting that it is a matter for parents is probably about right. If it was any real business of mine I probably wouldn't feel so awkward about it.

But it is useful to get other perspectives anyway.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I would not under any circumstances deal with the teacher directly. God knows what can of worms you would be opening. You can probably predict the response anyway, regardless of what actually goes on in the class.

Perhaps if it was something specific like the teacher teaches the class science and coursework B is due in next week you can bring it to the notice of the DP in a non-accusatory way 'I have been approached by 3B as a class group who are concerned that they will not have enough time to finish their coursework before the deadline. Can you look into it and perhaps facilitate them in some way?' Nobody is being accused of anything and if indeed the teacher is at fault as you have heard stuff from other classes, you can be sure the DP is already well aware of this situation and might sort something out.

However, I'm leaning far more towards encouraging the students to get their parents to deal with DP or indeed make an appointment to see the teacher to discuss their child's progress in this particular class.

I see your point about approaching the teacher - with the best will in the world it could be misconstrued as inappropriate interference. But I had thought of it as an alternative to passing it on to the Deputy Principal rather than as a way of 'sorting out' the teacher myself.

looksee

Could you discuss it with your year head/ head of department on a hypothetical basis to find out what the policy is. You will both know it is not hypothetical but you will not have to name names.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

I see your point about approaching the teacher - with the best will in the world it could be misconstrued as inappropriate interference. But I had thought of it as an alternative to passing it on to the Deputy Principal rather than as a way of 'sorting out' the teacher myself.

I think that approaching the teacher could not only jepordize your professional relationship with said teacher but also with other members of staff who would be very likely to hear about it.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I think that approaching the teacher could not only jepordize your professional relationship with said teacher but also with other members of staff who would be very likely to hear about it.

If I was to approach the teacher it'd have been in a very informal way as the teacher in question has occasionally spoken to me about the class in the staffroom so it wouldn't be out of the blue.

But, yes, the tone and nature of the approach could be too easily misinterpreted and the risks far outweight the benefits.

TheDriver

i would not even go near this complaint if I Were you. You are happy to deal with general welfare issues etc and this is exactly what you are doing, you are advising them as to the best course of action with their grieveance but don't deal with it yourself, refer them to the DP or P. They have experience in doing this and a Teacher should not touch Teacher grieveances at all.

2011abc

2011abc wrote: »

I'VE KNOWN OF A CASE WHEN A CHILD OF 'RESPECTABLE' PARENTS OPENLY BOASTED ROUND THE SCHOOL THEY WERE GOING TO GET A TEACHER FIRED ....AND DID !

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

boogle

As a class tutor, I wouldn't think that your duties extend to complaints about other teachers' classes. I would tell your students to address any complaints about staff members to the Principal or Deputy as you are not their boss and therefore cannot intervene.