WarHammer40k Whats the best Race and Why??

Conmc88

Hi all im collecting Warhammer40k bout 12 years now and iv had plenty of friend who have collected aswell and many different races ....

But when it boiled down to it I was unbeatable with Catachan obviously in jungle warfare type objectives ...with there ignore Difficult tureen (so they dance around there foes) not to mention there booby traps erupting at any time at any location on the table top.

What would be your views on this???what race do you collect why ???? who do you think are the best/worst race to collect and plus open this up to new people to the game who have any issues or just general info.

Any body designed there own army i.e new chapters in space marines .....etc

hairyheretic

Well, I don't think you could say there was any one all round best army. In the hands of a good player, almost any army can do well. Some armies lend themselves easier to a new player though, and some army builds in particular do well under (as an example) tournament conditions.

For myself, I have 3 different Chaos forces, IG, Orks, Tau and Space Wolves. One of the Chaos forces is my own design, and I know plenty of people who have created their own space marine chapters, eldar craftworlds, IG regiments and so on.

Cy_Revenant

I don't know if I'd call any race the best.

All of the 5th ed codices are pretty well rounded and balanced. I tend to choose armies based on what's interesting or what I have on hand.

I collect Tau because I thought batlesuits were pretty neat and I didn't know anyone who played them.
I collect Marines because I had most of an army on hand, and Marines are pretty easy to play.

Nody

Marines because you have so many different books to choose from as marines (i.e. Bog standard marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolfs, Ultramarines etc.), you'll always, ALWAYS, have the first updated book for every addition. Hence your marines will always work in every edition.

This is also why Xenos races will always be at a disadvantage as their books don't get updated as regularly.

Conmc88

Yea thats true there isn't a "best" race so to speak I suppose I worded it wrong but you dont hear of many eldar or even Dark eldar collectors, well me personally anyway and iv been to many tournaments every one seems to go strait for SM because as you already said the constantly have new and improved codex's same with Chaos but I suppose thats down to the hype that those armies are getting from the Horus Heresy novels, which i might add are Awesome!!!

I am still yet to see an updated codex for Catachan for the past 5-8 years where as SM have had 2 possibly 3 updated codex's,dont hold me to that im just thinking off the top of my head.But they have had way more updates than My Litle old Catachan

I'm thinking of collecting SM army my self Was thinking of calling them the Luna Wolves Pre Heresy.Any good Chapter names out there/ colour Schemes to match......

Cy_Revenant

Conmc88 wrote: »

I am still yet to see an updated codex for Catachan for the past 5-8 years where as SM have had 2 possibly 3 updated codex's,dont hold me to that im just thinking off the top of my head.But they have had way more updates than My Litle old Catachan

Catachans had a PDF codex in 4th ed. I think it was designed to be used with the IG 3.5 dex.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180160_Codex__Catachans.pdf

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Catachans_(4th_Edition)

Space Marines had a codex at the start of 4th ed, and a codex at the start of 5th ed. If you don't count all the other Marines.

It would be nice to have dedicated lists for the more unique parts of the IG. At the same time, it would be nice to have an update for Craftworld Eldar and the Chaos & Traitor Legions.

That said, GW seem to have themselves in a regular release cycle now. So unless they're content to put off the next rulebook for a few more years we probably won't see any of these before the next Space Marine codex, if ever.

Nody

• Chaos are very poor atm, their book simply don't hold up well (overcosted units across the board and fast attack is underwhelming)
• Tau has gunline and that is the only thing they got left as competitive and that still is not top tier and depends on not getting a round of bad rolls
• Eldar has to go mech and pray for lucky rolls (doable but not top tier)
• Nids while having a new book is not top tier but close due to the F.A.Q. hitting them between the legs with nerfs
• IG is top of the line as long as they go mech properly
• SoB has Immo spam list which is relatively good
• Necron is, well, dead...
• Orks are not really competitive but a good player can get lucky and make it work/trick the other player (Green tide armies etc.)
• DE is top of the line due to new codex (had serious issues before the codex update to 5th)
• Spacemarine <anything> does just fine but the chapters have different styles of combat
• Demons are lol demons; split half my force and hope I get a lucky with out vehicles in a vehicle era is not a good combo

Don't think I've missed any major force above but that's my take on the fifth edition codices as they stand today. Necrons really desperately need a new codex (which will be outdated with in two years of release and hence start dropping again most likely...) followed by SoB, Tau and Orks in no specific order. Then again looking at the Orks book released for WH I'd not hold my breath as a WH40k player for a proper update (rolling on random tables is "fun" according to GW; the fact it ruins competitive play but making the roll decide how your army plays is irrelevant ...

hairyheretic

Conmc88 wrote: »

Yea thats true there isn't a "best" race so to speak I suppose I worded it wrong but you dont hear of many eldar or even Dark eldar collectors, well me personally anyway and iv been to many tournaments every one seems to go strait for SM because as you already said the constantly have new and improved codex's same with Chaos but I suppose thats down to the hype that those armies are getting from the Horus Heresy novels, which i might add are Awesome!!!

I could say many things about the renegades codex, but improved is most definitely not one of them. That book is the reason all my Chaos has sat on the shelf for the last few years.

I'm hoping when a proper Chaos codex is done, it will have more respect for the background, and give the different Legions an identity beyond the paint on their armour.

Conmc88 wrote: »

I'm thinking of collecting SM army my self Was thinking of calling them the Luna Wolves Pre Heresy.Any good Chapter names out there/ colour Schemes to match......

If you want to do a pre Heresy Luna Wolves force, it should be easy enough to find info on the paint scheme.

There have been a few WD articles on creating your own chapter. I think one of the older Marine dexes had a similar section.

The easiest way is to create a successor chapter of a Marine force you do like, and come up with a name in a similar style.

Sephiroth_dude

Would ye recommend a complete novice starting off with imperial guard?

Nody

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Would ye recommend a complete novice starting off with imperial guard?

Depends if he likes to paint a lot. A full mech IG is looking at around 60 to 100 models and 15+ tanks. IG is generally a "safe" army in the sense that it will get updates quickly and will not fall behind badly over time (due to variety of options) with a ton of background, but if he hates painting...

If not Space Marines <X> would be the recommended route. Normal for things like Biker army, BA for Jumping army (only Dreads as vehicles basically), Space Wolfs for Space vikings riding on wolfs with some tanks etc.

Sephiroth_dude

Nody wrote: »

Depends if he likes to paint a lot. A full mech IG is looking at around 60 to 100 models and 15+ tanks. IG is generally a "safe" army in the sense that it will get updates quickly and will not fall behind badly over time (due to variety of options) with a ton of background, but if he hates painting...

If not Space Marines <X> would be the recommended route. Normal for things like Biker army, BA for Jumping army (only Dreads as vehicles basically), Space Wolfs for Space vikings riding on wolfs with some tanks etc.

I dont mind painting I would like to start with a different army though because everyone seems to start off with space marines.

Cy_Revenant

Nody wrote: »

• Chaos are very poor atm, their book simply don't hold up well (overcosted units across the board and fast attack is underwhelming)
• Tau has gunline and that is the only thing they got left as competitive and that still is not top tier and depends on not getting a round of bad rolls
• Eldar has to go mech and pray for lucky rolls (doable but not top tier)
• Nids while having a new book is not top tier but close due to the F.A.Q. hitting them between the legs with nerfs
• IG is top of the line as long as they go mech properly
• SoB has Immo spam list which is relatively good
• Necron is, well, dead...
• Orks are not really competitive but a good player can get lucky and make it work/trick the other player (Green tide armies etc.)
• DE is top of the line due to new codex (had serious issues before the codex update to 5th)
• Spacemarine <anything> does just fine but the chapters have different styles of combat
• Demons are lol demons; split half my force and hope I get a lucky with out vehicles in a vehicle era is not a good combo

Don't think I've missed any major force above but that's my take on the fifth edition codices as they stand today. Necrons really desperately need a new codex (which will be outdated with in two years of release and hence start dropping again most likely...) followed by SoB, Tau and Orks in no specific order. Then again looking at the Orks book released for WH I'd not hold my breath as a WH40k player for a proper update (rolling on random tables is "fun" according to GW; the fact it ruins competitive play but making the roll decide how your army plays is irrelevant ...

Some of this made me chuckle.

Any Tau player who plays a gun line isn't planning on living very long. Tau players need to either suit up or mech up.
Even before their new codex, Dark Eldar were one of the strongest armies around. They were just more difficult to play then most.
There are armies that need an update more than the Orks. Chaos Marines come to mind.

As for the (great) random tables in the Ork codex. 40k has never been a system balanced for competitive play. It always has been fun and interesting stuff first. You only need to look at the Chaos Daemon codex to see that.

hairyheretic

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

I dont mind painting I would like to start with a different army though because everyone seems to start off with space marines.

IG would also be an expensive army to start, given the number of models and vehicles you'd be getting.

hagbard

On the subject of best armies for a new player, what would you guys recommend for someone who is both new to the game, and wants to keep the budget as tight as possible.

Apart from "play a cheaper wargame."

hairyheretic

Marines.

They do everything reasonably well, they're fairly forgiving of mistakes, and in terms of points per model they one the upper end of the scale, so you have to buy less of them.

hagbard

Thanks hairyheretic. I've just started painting models, after a break of about eighteen years. Not yet sure if I'll take up the gaming too.

Sephiroth_dude

hairyheretic wrote: »

Marines.

They do everything reasonably well, they're fairly forgiving of mistakes, and in terms of points per model they one the upper end of the scale, so you have to buy less of them.

Points per model?what does this mean?

quozl

He means that they general cost more in-game points per model fielded, which means that at a given point level you field less models.

This means you need to buy less models, assemble less models and paint less models.

Especially compared to the other extreme - a horde style army like Tyranids or Orcs, for example, where you will have many times as many models.

hairyheretic

Pretty much. Off the top of my head, a marine is about 15 points per basic model. Compare that to maybe 6 points for a basic ork or Imperial Guardsman. In any given game, you'll likely have a lot more Orks than Marines, which means collecting that marine force is a bit cheaper.

Sephiroth_dude

So lets say your playing a 500 point game,all your models need to make up 500 points?

quozl

Yes, and a lot less marines will add up to 500 points than Orcs would.

hagbard

Quick Space Marines question, apologies if it's in the wrong thread.

I bought the Warhammer paint set that comes with five Ultramarines this morning. The painting guides on the GW site differ slightly in their advice regarding space marines, in that some advise painting the model before gluing the gun in place, and some don't. The space marines included are the type where the hands are attached to the gun, rather than to the arms. Should I assemble fully first, or paint the eagle in before adding the gun?

quozl

You'll get a better effect if you paint pieces seperately before assembling them - IF the assembled pieces will get in your way, or make it more difficult, to paint other pieces of the model.

I briefly did it piece by piece but as I'm more of a gamer than a painter I then ended up with partially assembled models waiting to be painted instead of assembled unpainted models that I could at least game with.

So, that's the trade off imo

hagbard

Thanks, quozl. I assembled one of the marines unpainted, as a trial run, and while the paint job looks like it will involve some tricky angles, I think I did the right thing. The miniatures that come with this set seem to be bottom of the range models, and involved a fair bit of trimming to get them to fit together properly. With a few layers of paint on top the build would have been even trickier, and would probably have required a lot of touching up afterwards.
I'm going to assemble them all, paint them up, and then see if I can face building an army.

riffmongous

One thing that used to annoy me was how in the old White Dwarf (when I used to buy it every month) I often thought they presented Tyranids as being unstoppable in battle reports. Maybe I was just imagining it but every report they were in seemed to end with the the other army being wiped out.

hagbard

riffmongous wrote: »

One thing that used to annoy me was how in the old White Dwarf (when I used to buy it every month) I often thought they presented Tyranids as being unstoppable in battle reports. Maybe I was just imagining it but every report they were in seemed to end with the the other army being wiped out.

That'd be GW telling everyone to buy Tyranids.

hairyheretic

The new army just being featured tended to win an inordinate ammount of times

hagbard

Now that you mention it, hairyheretic, these Grey Knights look invincible.

Conmc88

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH Grey nights ......AMAZING ....... they are just GW showing off

hairyheretic

No army is invincible. Give it a few months for the new killer lists to be worked out, analysed and then countered, and then judge their performance record.

Conmc88

Ha ha ha ha ok point taken but until then ....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Grey Nights .........AMAZING

hagbard

Well, I took the plunge and picked up Assault on Black Reach this morning. Looks like I'll be building up an Ork army and an Ultramarine force. Very, very slowly.

Jelle1880

So you say now, and then in a few months time (Right when your army will be coming along nicely) you'll see another army you like (Imo Ultramarines are a bit... dull) and start buying those, only to do the same again later with once again another army

riffmongous

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So you say now, and then in a few months time (Right when your army will be coming along nicely) you'll see another army you like (Imo Ultramarines are a bit... dull) and start buying those, only to do the same again later with once again another army

At the moment I've got over 200pts of every race bar Tyranids, Lizardmen, D.Elves and Sisters
And my largest army is only about 2000pts.

hagbard

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So you say now, and then in a few months time (Right when your army will be coming along nicely) you'll see another army you like (Imo Ultramarines are a bit... dull) and start buying those, only to do the same again later with once again another army

From what I've seen online everybody seems to give out about the Ultramarines. The reason I'm planning to paint my marines as Smurfs is because I already have five models painted up from the Citadel starter kit. That may not seem like much, but I was pretty pleased with how they went, and it is five models out of the way, so I reckon I'll stick with them

That said, out of the AOBR set I've begun on the Orks, which are far more interesting models than marines, and I've scratch built a few bits of Orky terrain pieces, which is damn sight easier than making things that look like Imperial constructions.

riffmongous

hagbard wrote: »

From what I've seen online everybody seems to give out about the Ultramarines. The reason I'm planning to paint my marines as Smurfs is because I already have five models painted up from the Citadel starter kit. That may not seem like much, but I was pretty pleased with how they went, and it is five models out of the way, so I reckon I'll stick with them

That said, out of the AOBR set I've begun on the Orks, which are far more interesting models than marines, and I've scratch built a few bits of Orky terrain pieces, which is damn sight easier than making things that look like Imperial constructions.

Well for years the Ultramarines might as well have been painted vanilla instead of blue. Anything you could do with the Ultras you could do with one of the other chapters and have loads of cool extras too (Death Company, Ravenwing, almost everything Space Wolf).
Even the Raven Guard who didn't have a special codex had a background that gave them a specific style of army.

On a slightly related note when was the last time anyone saw an Imperial Fists army?

Orks are fun, and the AOBR set gives you some great models, check out the kommando set they are some of my favourite models.

Jelle1880

hagbard wrote: »

From what I've seen online everybody seems to give out about the Ultramarines. The reason I'm planning to paint my marines as Smurfs is because I already have five models painted up from the Citadel starter kit. That may not seem like much, but I was pretty pleased with how they went, and it is five models out of the way, so I reckon I'll stick with them

That said, out of the AOBR set I've begun on the Orks, which are far more interesting models than marines, and I've scratch built a few bits of Orky terrain pieces, which is damn sight easier than making things that look like Imperial constructions.

I'm not giving out on the UM, but it's a bit of a standard joke that people who don't play UM will comment on them

Completely understandable if you already have some painted to continue
Orks are great to paint and play with btw.

But like riffmongus says: Some of the smaller chapters have a fantastic background, while that of the UM is more standard stuff.

Space Wolves, for example :cool:

Fenn

I too find Ultra Marine very vanilla. Other chapter like Space Wolves and Blood Angels have a better range of units and the back ground fluff is more interesting. Although for a new player Grey Knights all the way. A GK army positives are:
1. You need less miniatures than other armies
2. Their hard as nails and once they make combat can kill almost anything
3. Aren't the hardest to paint
4. And most importantly they look good
Negative would include:
1. GK's are expensive in both points and money
2. They tend to get overwhelmed by horde armies like Tyranids and Orks
3. Can be a little harder to play because of their lack of number on the battle field.