Asking someone to leave your property who is not your tenant

Newgirl

I've had a social welfare tenant for 10 years and all was well till I noticed that no rent was lodged to my account for Dec, Jan or Feb. The lady went to visit her relations in africa in Dec and had a baby there prematurely, and is having problems getting papers to travel back with the baby. Her brother has been staying with her in the hosue for a while. However my lease was with this lady and her first child. Social welfare stopped the payment when she told them she was travelling to africa. So as far as the CWO is concerned we have no contract with the brother he's trespassing, we should evict him and the lady by leaving with out tellin us has broken her lease.

My other half spoke to the brother last night he hasn't worked in 2 months so its not like we'll get rent from him.

Do I just go in there and tell him to leave immediately as hes trespassing. I don't want the place trashed. advice appreciated

Zamboni

You have no zero obligations towards this man.

Just tell him you need to use the place yourself and ask him to leave.
Give him a week or two to get himself sorted if you can.
Make sure he has a clear understanding that he is to be out by such a date and enforce it.

Peanut2011

OP, going in to the property and telling someone to leave straight away would be your option, however if that is a relative of the person with whom you had the lease, they might want to take some of her possessions with them.

I guess it would depend on the kind of person you are dealing with but giving them a week or two to move out would be reasonable if the person you are dealing with is reasonable.

If you suspect your property might get damaged I would go to your local Garda station and ask them for advice. Afterall, you won't simply be able to walk in there and tell him to get out without Garda presence.

It is a tricky situation to be in, hopefully you can have it sorted soon. Best of luck.

stargazer 68

I am assuming you rented it privately to her although she is getting her rent from the social welfare.

In that case you will have to just tell him to leave as the others said.

Newgirl

thank you all for the prompt replies by other half has met this man and is more trusting than me, he'll be able to have that discussion with him.
thank you again.

Newgirl

can I just double check do I still have a lease/tennacy agreement with the lady she hasn't paid three months rent has left the country with out telling us and I've no idea if she will ever come back
thank you

D3PO

Newgirl wrote: »

can I just double check do I still have a lease/tennacy agreement with the lady she hasn't paid three months rent has left the country with out telling us and I've no idea if she will ever come back
thank you

I would believe you do still have a valid agreement with her and as such would have to invoke eviction proceedings.

Tricky one I would strongly reccomend you discuss with the PRTB & Threshold regarding the steps you need to take to "evict" her.

antoinolachtnai

I would be extremely careful here. A visit to the solicitor is going to be involved, or certainly advice from someone experienced. You could talk to to the IPOA. PRTB and Threshold will not give advice to landlords.

The problem is that this guy could be considered in possession even though he has no lease.

I would sit down quietly with this guy and ask him what he proposes to do to regularize the situation. Maybe he can propose a solution. Otherwise you will have to consider what the legal options are.

Newgirl

we met the guy last night and spoke to our tenant on the phone. we said we need the rent for Jan, Feb, Mar and April or else we'd have to terminate the tenancy. the tenants 6 yr old daughter is in the house, she didn't bring her back to nigeria. the man came to ireland on a work visa and is nolonger working and is not eligible to claim a social welfare payment. also we haven't regisgered the tenancy with prtb.

we said we'd come back on saturday to see if they have the money.
what do we do after that?

Roselm

Hi OP,

My 2 cents (bearing in mind I'm just thinking the situation through and have no experience of this area):

Do you know where the brother would go with the 6 year old if they left? Do they have other family here?
I would be worried that the girl would end up homeless.
I wonder if you got in contact with a Social Worker would they be able to liaise with Social Welfare and get funds to the brother so that he can support the girl and pay for somewhere for them to stay-?your house?!
On second thoughts this seems like a lot of work! Maybe you should tell the brother to do this

D3PO

Roselm wrote: »

Hi OP,

My 2 cents (bearing in mind I'm just thinking the situation through and have no experience of this area):

Do you know where the brother would go with the 6 year old if they left? Do they have other family here?
I would be worried that the girl would end up homeless.
I wonder if you got in contact with a Social Worker would they be able to liaise with Social Welfare and get funds to the brother so that he can support the girl and pay for somewhere for them to stay-?your house?!
On second thoughts this seems like a lot of work! Maybe you should tell the brother to do this

Without wanting to sound like a heartless monster. Who cares where the brother and 6 year old will go. Its not the OP's responsibility to be out of pocket to put a roof over their head.

Thats what social welfare and NGO's like Focus Ireland etc are there for.

Zamboni

Newgirl wrote: »

we met the guy last night and spoke to our tenant on the phone. we said we need the rent for Jan, Feb, Mar and April or else we'd have to terminate the tenancy. the tenants 6 yr old daughter is in the house, she didn't bring her back to nigeria. the man came to ireland on a work visa and is nolonger working and is not eligible to claim a social welfare payment. also we haven't regisgered the tenancy with prtb.

we said we'd come back on saturday to see if they have the money.
what do we do after that?

You have a lease with a woman.
She is breaking the lease by not paying rent.
That is the issue you need to deal with.
Forget about the stuff in bold. It is nothing to do with you.
If you don't get paid on Saturday (you won't btw), serve the termination.
As others have said, get legal advice and do this correctly.

Newgirl

D3PO and Zamboni thank you for those replies. On saturday I'm going to leave written notice in the hosue that she is in arrears and that she has 14 days to pay. Then I have to service notice to terminate the tenancy. I'm just worrried that she/ the brother will sit there for the 28 days and i'll be left paying a mortgage an no rent coming in till a court decides what to do.
I'm worried sick and in negative equity on top of it all. I know no one has died but you hear horror stories of tenants not cooperating

SteoL

I have to ask why you haven't registered the tenancy with the PRTB when you are legally obliged to do so?

Do serve the termination notice, don't worry about her personal circumstances - I agree with the others who said this but I do still wonder why you didn't register.

D3PO

Newgirl wrote: »

I'm just worrried that she/ the brother will sit there for the 28 days and i'll be left paying a mortgage an no rent coming in till a court decides what to do.

My view is the brother and daughter are not your tennents so you can kick them out when you want the only issue you have is regarding the leaseholder, but I would suggest you speak to Threshold and a solicitor before doing anything.

with some luck either the money will appear on Saturday or they will agree to go quietly, but its always prudent to prepare for the worst.

the_syco

D3PO wrote: »

My view is the brother and daughter are not your tennents so you can kick them out when you want the only issue you have is regarding the leaseholder, but I would suggest you speak to Threshold and a solicitor before doing anything.

Agreed. For no other reason than in case they pull the race card when you try to get them out of your house. At the moment, I'd see them as illegal squatters, as the woman made no prior arrangement with you in regards to them staying when she left.

Ste.phen

the_syco wrote: »

Agreed. For no other reason than in case they pull the race card when you try to get them out of your house. At the moment, I'd see them as illegal squatters, as the woman made no prior arrangement with you in regards to them staying when she left.

Definitely ask for proper advice here

From the perspective of the PRTB I imagine the tenant has done two things wrong:
a) stopped paying rent
b) started 'subletting' (whatever about the fact that she's probably not getting money from them)

You can't just kick the people currently there out, you have to evict them with proper notice, etc, or you could be in for a world of [financial] hurt

RasTa

Ste.phen wrote: »

You can't just kick the people currently there out, you have to evict them with proper notice, etc, or you could be in for a world of [financial] hurt

What legal right does the current tennant have to be in the property?

mikemac

Roselm wrote: »

Do you know where the brother would go with the 6 year old if they left? Do they have other family here?
I would be worried that the girl would end up homeless.

I'll be the second heartless monster on this thread and say this is not the OP's problem
If this guy and the girl want to stay then pay the rent.
At the minute they are squatting there, they have no lease and no rent is being paid.

The OP should get advice from Threshold but don't leave this longer then usual.
This women was a good tenant for ten years which is fantastic for any landlord. But one month without rent is unacceptable and now it's going on four months

Get advice, serve notice, get them out, get a new tenant

Ste.phen

RasTa wrote: »

What legal right does the current tennant have to be in the property?

They could say they're there with the tenants permission. Which means the OP has a problem with the tenant (absent though she is), not her 'guests'

I'm not saying they DO have a right to be there, I'm saying that *if they do* and the OP removes them without being very careful, it's going to blow up terribly.

Treehouse72

Newgirl wrote: »

also we haven't regisgered the tenancy with prtb.

Have you been paying tax on your rental income? I don't want to appear rude, it's just that often people who don't sign up for one form of compliance don't sign up for the other.

Sparky_Larks

If the woman had to leave, it it not reasonable that she has someone stay in the house she is renting to look after her child.

I would assume that the brother and the tenant's daughter have a right to be there and progress from there. You should also register the tenancy with the PRTB. You can't complain about people breaking the lease when your not complying with your own obligations.

the_syco

Sparky_Larks wrote: »

I would assume that the brother and the tenant's daughter have a right to be there

No, they don't. They have no right to be there, as they have not signed the lease: the woman had. Oh, and also they're not paying rent.

Newgirl

thank you all for your advice. Problem solved the man and the girl have left the house, keys returned, now I just have to do a massive clean up!

Squirrel

Newgirl wrote: »

thank you all for your advice. Problem solved the man and the girl have left the house, keys returned, now I just have to do a massive clean up!

Bad and all as it sounds but I'd get the locks changed, just in case

The_Conductor

Squirrel wrote: »

Bad and all as it sounds but I'd get the locks changed, just in case

Seriously echo this sentiment- I know its extra cost and everything- after you've lost 3 month's rent- but its seriously advisable.

Ray Palmer

Squirrel wrote: »

Bad and all as it sounds but I'd get the locks changed, just in case

You are crazy not do this when a tenant moves out anyway regardless of how they leave.

mdebets

Newgirl wrote: »

thank you all for your advice. Problem solved the man and the girl have left the house, keys returned, now I just have to do a massive clean up!

Do you have it in writing from the woman that she wants to leave? Just because her brother gave you back the keys doesn't mean she also sees the lease as terminated.
Unless you have it all in writing, I wouldn't enter the apartment or change the locks, but start eviction procedures.

Ray Palmer

mdebets wrote: »

Do you have it in writing from the woman that she wants to leave? Just because her brother gave you back the keys doesn't mean she also sees the lease as terminated.
Unless you have it all in writing, I wouldn't enter the apartment or change the locks, but start eviction procedures.

She left the country and stopped paying the rent. You can take that as termination. The brother was effectively squating. Squater left, the claim of a lease doesn't exist.

mdebets

Ray Palmer wrote: »

She left the country and stopped paying the rent. You can take that as termination. The brother was effectively squating. Squater left, the claim of a lease doesn't exist.

Neither leaving the country nor stop paying rent terminates a lease. So the OP should get into contact with a solicitor follow the correct procedure to terminate the lease.
The brother was not a squatter,as the tenant allowed him to live there and I presume she informed the OP about this.

Resend

Newgirl wrote: »

. also we haven't regisgered the tenancy with prtb.

why not? you are very quick looking for legal solutions while breaking theb law yourself

the_syco

mdebets wrote: »

So the OP should get into contact with a solicitor follow the correct procedure to terminate the lease.

Reason one for needing a solicitor: if you send a registered letter to the address addressed to the woman, then the woman has to sign for it. If she's not there, someone falsely pretending to be her signing the letter may constitute breaking some postal related law?

Ray Palmer

mdebets wrote: »

Neither leaving the country nor stop paying rent terminates a lease. So the OP should get into contact with a solicitor follow the correct procedure to terminate the lease.
The brother was not a squatter,as the tenant allowed him to live there and I presume she informed the OP about this.

Leaving the country and stopping payment of rent could certainly be considered terminating the lease. It isn't like they left for a week, they are gone months. The property has been left vacant now so having something in writing won't make much difference. Effectively you are suggesting that when somebody leaves a property you must get written conformation and you don't.

They abandoned the property and gave the keys to somebody else who just happened to be their brother. The fact he wasn't on the lease and didn't pay rent makes him a squatter. I doubt that he had written permission to be there if you want to be pedantic about the legalities.

OP make sure you pay the PRTB from now on. I assume you are paying your taxes but others will not if you don't pay PRTB.