advice

england

I would really appreciate for advice. I came to Ireland as spouse of Irish citizen in December 2003 and we have two children who are Irish. I have worked as medical doctor for several years in Ireland. However, since my husband had difficulties to obtain job in Ireland, whole family moved to UK. We are in UK since March 2010. Furthermore, Irish naturalisation and immigration service pointed out those temporary absences from the state are permitted and that my case won’t be considered unless family returns to Ireland or alternatively if we prove that we are out of state temporarily. I have to admit that in this point in time, it is not clear even to ourselves if we are going to return or not. However, it seems to be unfair and difficult for whole family - because as a mother and wife I will not be able to bring my children to see their grandparents, aunts, godfather and all these relationships will be affected as my visa will be expiring soon. I would really appreciate for further advice. Thank you.

Shield

What is your question? You've given a lot of information but I can't pick out what it is you need help with?

england

Well, how can I get citizenship? i can't go back to ireland as children are just settled in school etc.

Shield

What Nationality are you?

england

sorry, yes, that is a good question!:) i am Serbian. thank you.

Shield

Ok - I'm going to move this discussion to our Legal Discussion forum ok? That's where you're more likely to find people that will be able to answer your questions.

LD Mods: Moved from Newbies & FAQ with redirect expiring in 7 days. If unsuitable, please bounce back or advise.

england

ok. many thanks.

Peregrinus

In general, you need to have lived in Ireland for the year immediately before you apply for naturalization, and for at least four years out of the eight years before that. This means, among other things, that you have a problem applying for naturalization if you are currently not living in Ireland. Another condition is that you should intend to reside in Ireland after naturalization, which doesn’t seem to be something you could honestly say at the moment.

However there is a discretion to relax these conditions in some cases, and one case is where you are the spouse of an Irish citizen, which is your situation.

I don’t know how readily the conditions are relaxed in practice, but your claim must be a fairly strong one. You are not only the spouse of an Irish citizen, but the mother of two more. Certainly if you were seeking to return to live in Ireland I think your case would be a strong one. I think your case is less strong if you merely want to be able to visit Ireland from time to time with your children; I’m sure there is a visa you can get which will allow you to do that. Also, as the spouse of an Irish citizen you can apply for permission to reside in the state; you can apply for that from outside Ireland.

You could consider the alternative of seeking to be naturalised in the UK. If you have been lawfully in the UK for a period your chances are good, although I’m not sure, off the top of my head, how long that period is. As a UK national you could of course enter and leave Ireland freely.

Wisco

From what I've read and heard from people who've gone through the naturalisation process, the residence conditions are not generally relaxed at all, even for spouses of Irish citizens. As far as I know, you need to be resident in Ireland for a year preceding your application, but as the spouse of an Irish national, you only need 3 years total residence instead of 5. You also sign a declaration saying you intend to continue living in Ireland if granted citizenship (it's part of the application for naturalisation).
But also as the spouse of an Irish person, you should get permission to stay in Ireland on that basis (if you and your family decide to come back here) without too much hassle.

blueythebear

england wrote: »

I would really appreciate for advice. I came to Ireland as spouse of Irish citizen in December 2003 and we have two children who are Irish. I have worked as medical doctor for several years in Ireland. However, since my husband had difficulties to obtain job in Ireland, whole family moved to UK. We are in UK since March 2010. Furthermore, Irish naturalisation and immigration service pointed out those temporary absences from the state are permitted and that my case won’t be considered unless family returns to Ireland or alternatively if we prove that we are out of state temporarily. I have to admit that in this point in time, it is not clear even to ourselves if we are going to return or not. However, it seems to be unfair and difficult for whole family - because as a mother and wife I will not be able to bring my children to see their grandparents, aunts, godfather and all these relationships will be affected as my visa will be expiring soon. I would really appreciate for further advice. Thank you.

Unfortunately, there's no option for you but to return to Ireland if you wish to obtain Irish Citizenship. If you do return to Ireland in the near future, you won't have to obtain permission to remain for five years again, just for one year. On the bright side, you could apply for EU Treaty rights in the UK based on your marriage and parentage of the children. An EU Residence card waives the requirement of a visa throughout the EU s you could travel visa free to Ireland if you travel with your family or are seeking to join them.

england

Thank you very much. Yes this is all unfortunate. My apologies for wasting your time but if we return now to Ireland in near future, I need to apply for one additional year and not 5 years again? What does this exactly mean? I thought that if we return to Ireland, and provide evidence that we are there, in terms of bills and bank statement that be enough? many thanks once again.

blueythebear

england wrote: »

Thank you very much. Yes this is all unfortunate. My apologies for wasting your time but if we return now to Ireland in near future, I need to apply for one additional year and not 5 years again? What does this exactly mean? I thought that if we return to Ireland, and provide evidence that we are there, in terms of bills and bank statement that be enough? many thanks once again.

I mean if you wish to reapply for citizenship, you must have resided in Ireland for a year before making an application (in addition to having 2 years residence (total 3)). If your Citizenship application is still pending with the Department, they might overlook it but most likely not seeing as you've been gone for over a year at this point. If you can produce paperwork that says you were residing in Ireland during this time and have the appropriate stamps on your passport, then it may be the case that you can just submit them and hope no questions are asked but I can't recommend doing that as you'll be refused if caught out.

Go the EU Route if you're living in UK. You can travel visa free to Ireland if you have an EU Residence Card (based on being family member of EUCitizen) if travelling with your family.

england

Many thanks. Can I ask one more question?
I am very worried as at present our marriage is falling apart and our older son has Down syndrome. So I would not have problem to go back to my home coutry but I feel for my son there will be no quality of life there whilst here he is in mainstream education. So I might have to take children with me to Serbia or leave them. None of the options are possible for me. It is a tricky situation. And there is no way out.

Peregrinus

That's a provblem. You can;t currently apply for Irish citizenship because you're not living in Ireland, and if your marriage ends in divorce you won't be able to apply in the future. You have not right to Irish citizenship on the basis of being the former spouse of an Irish citizen.

It looks to me as though the way to go is for you to apply for a residence card on the basis that you are the family member of an EEA national. Your husband is an EEA national but, more to the point, so are your two children, and under the legislation which governs these cards "family member" includes parent.

If you are living in the UK, you should apply in the UK. Once you get that card it will enable you to reside in, and travel throughout, the European Economic Area (the EU, plus Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein). Applications for the residence card are supposed to be dealt with in six months. Although it's called a "residence card" it actually takes the form of a sticker in your passport, which confirms that you are the family member of an EEA national, and are therefore entitled to travel throughout the EEA.

Because it's in your passport, every time you renew your passport you'll have to get a new sticker in it to confirm your status. You get that sticker from the authorities of whatever EEA country you happen to be residing in at the time. But as the parent of an EEA national you should always be granted the card.

This need not continue indefinitely, though. If you remain lawfully resident in the UK for five years (apart from short trips abroad, e.g. holidays and visits) and can speak English "to an acceptable degree" and are of good character, etc, etc, then you can apply to be naturalised in the UK. The UK Border Agency website (ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk) sets out the requirements in more detail, and you may need to arrange your affairs for the next few years so that you comply with them.

england

is there something called "UK residence card" and " EU residence card" . is this the same or two different entities? Is "EU residence card obtained in UK"?

Marcusm

Bearing in mind that you are living in the UK, I think you would be better served by the following forum. (No disrespect to fellow boardsies intended.)

http://www.ukresident.com/forums/forum/2406-uk-immigration-uk-residency-uk-visas-forum/