Cruciate Ligament

dreamer_ire

My 9 year old Cairn Terrier cross has been having hydrotherapy and accupuncture for the last few weeks for lameness in her hind left leg, but unfortunately tonight I've been told her curciate has ruptured. I'll be going to see her main vet over the next day or so but todays vet told me I have a choice to make between surgery and letting it heal naturally.

I'd love to hear stories of small dogs who have gone down either/both routes to help me make the decision.

Thanks

ISDW

dreamer_ire wrote: »

My 9 year old Cairn Terrier cross has been having hydrotherapy and accupuncture for the last few weeks for lameness in her hind left leg, but unfortunately tonight I've been told her curciate has ruptured. I'll be going to see her main vet over the next day or so but todays vet told me I have a choice to make between surgery and letting it heal naturally.

I'd love to hear stories of small dogs who have gone down either/both routes to help me make the decision.

Thanks

My old spaniel cross ruptured the cruciate ligaments in both of her back legs, the first operation was a long time ago and was a pretty major op, but she healed well from it. The second op was keyhole, and was much quicker and easier to heal. I wasn't given the option of allowing it to heal naturally, so I don't know what that entails. Would you have to keep the dog completely contained? For how long?

dreamer_ire

Thanks for the reply ISDW. It's because of her size that allowing it to repair naturally is an option. She's limited at the moment to 2 20 minute on lead walks a day and she has to be discouraged from getting too excited (running around like a mad one!). I've also put in a step for her to get onto the couch which she can manage well. That would continue for about another 3/4 months alongside which she could continue with the hydro on a weekly basis.

Both the vet and the nurse today said they would go down the conservative route if she was theirs as she doesn't appear to be in any pain. As I said I have to see her main vet over the next few days but from what I heard tonight the recovery time is slightly longer but there are none of the potential risks associated with surgery.

LucyBliss

Coincidentally my small terrier X has been on crate rest for the last 6 weeks due to her cruciate ligament being injured. She's due to go to the vet in a week or so for a check up. We were told that if it didn't heal after the crate rest, she will need surgery and from talking to people, it seems that the smaller the dog, the better chance there is of the ligament healing naturally. It seems that in larger dogs, it's harder and most of the time they do need surgery.

The vet said that she would need to be kept quiet and not allowed run about or go on walks. He said he appreciated how difficult that can be in a household and I said I'd put her in the crate and he thought that was ideal. So she has been in her crate a lot if I felt that she was getting too excited and needed to actually rest. I've let her out in the garden on the lead, which took her a while to get used to because she wouldn't do her business on the lead at first but we got over that. In the evenings, I'd let her sleep on my lap so she didn't feel completely out of sorts over being crated more than usual.
In the past two weeks, I have seen a complete change in her demeanour. She's a lot brighter, she's more interested in being with the rest of the family - she would often just hop into the crate in the evening and not bother with anyone - and her leg is down on the ground more often than not. Previously, she wasn't putting any weight on it at all. Over the past week, I have seen her stand on her hind legs sniffing in the bin, she has run up the stairs after me and when I take the other dogs out for a walk, her attitude has changed from "Whatever" to "HOW DARE YOU GO AND LEAVE ME BEHIND! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!"

The vet said that sometimes it can seem like it isn't healing and then, at almost the last minute so to speak, there is a big turnaround.

OP, I'd let it heal naturally for the few weeks and then see if surgery is warranted. It can't hurt to give it a chance and let her rest up. As a small dog, the odds are in her favour that it will heal if she's kept quiet.

Oh, we also gave our lady Arnica to promote the healing, as suggested by EGAR. We used to hide it in a nice bit of chicken and she'd swallow it down no problem.

stuartthevet

Surgery is generally recommended for all dogs with a cruciate rupture. While the lameness will probably resolve in a small dog like a Cairn after about six weeks of rest, it is very likely that he/she will develop arthritis earlier and more severely in the affected knee than if surgery were performed. There are various surgical techniques employed by vets but the outcome is generally the same; approximately 85% will have a good or excellent response to surgical treatment.

PS: Hydrotherapy is great post op, and there is an excellent series of physiotherapy exercises detailed in the journal "Clinical techniques in small animal practice". I can't recall the issue it featured in, but I'm sure a google search will turn it up.

ISDW

If I were you then, I'd go with what the vet, nurse and LucyBliss have said, if you did have the op done, then there would have to be crate rest anyway, so maybe a few extra weeks of that, without putting your dog through a GA is the way to go.

Best of luck with it, lots of stuffed kongs to keep her occupied:D

Lucyspell

I am in the same situation for the past week. My dog is an eleven, going on twelve year old terrier cross, very lively and active for her age. Last week she was overdoing it on the beach, during a lively game of ball. She has torn her cruciate ligament and is on crate rest. It is very difficult to keep her quiet. She had anti imflamatory meds for one week, and just short times out in the garden on a lead.
Wondering what is 'arnica' as mentioned above by Lucybliss?
Any updates or advice welcome.
Thanks
Lucyspell

LucyBliss

Oh, I'm so sorry this has happened to your dog. They get used to the crate rest but it is difficult when they're dying to go galloping about.

Arnica is a homeopathic remedy that's good for easing swelling and bruising and promotes recovery and you can take it as a preventative measure before a surgery. I know a person who had to go for a liver biopsy, which is extremely painful and bruises a person up like no-one's business and he took arnica for months before hand and there was barely a mark on him. He was quite peeved in one way because nobody gave him any sympathy and he said it was bloody sore. But I digress. I got mine in the local health food shop. It's a small white tablet and I put it in a small bit of chicken or ham to make sure she'd swallow it.

My Rosie is practically better now. Her leg is down almost all the time and I caught her standing on her hind legs trying to steal something out of the bin the other day. Her general attitude and well being has dramatically improved. I'm going to leave it another week before I take her out on walks again just to be on the safe side. We're so close, I don't want to jinx it! I'd say by Easter, she'll be over it at the rate she's going.

moving_home

now i am scared..my doggie hurt her leg just over a week ago so i have been trying to keep her quiet with only short on lead walks (before that i was running up to 5k with her).

She is able to put weight on it now and is constantly jumping on her hind legs - would she be able to do this if she had damage her cruciate muscle? she doesn't appear to be in any pain and allows me to feel up and down the leg without flinching. haven't noticed her limping in a couple of days but am now really paranoid.

can anyone give me any tips on what to look out for?

cram1971

Hi Guys

Our female Springer had her cruciate op about 8 weeks ago, we tried everything to avoid the op because she is nearly 9 years old but is still very lively, she is doing great on her operated leg but looks like now has done damage to the other leg due to over compensating.

The operation she had involed replacing the cruciate with nylon suture material, rather that TPLO surgery

My advice would be to tackle it now before your pet damage the other leg.

Also animals are more prone to infections in the summer due to flies.

tk123

I don't have any experience with cruciates but my guy had surgery thats kind of similar to TPLO to have his leg straightened - he had a wedge of bone cut out and a plate and pins to hold the bone in place.
He was on crate rest for 4 weeks then out for 2 and then back in for a week and half when he hurt himself. :rolleyes:
It seems daunting and scary at first - how will the dog manage/take being in the crate but it is doable and gets easier as you go along and get into a routine. I got a second crate so we set up one in the kitchen and one in the sitting room so he was with us - he got anxious if he was on his own - if he wasn't occupied with a kong lol. I started feeding him his meals in kongs a few weeks before the op to get him used to it - lots of praise and a treat when he got into his crate etc so it was a fun place not a jail. Also I put the sitting room crate in the same place as his bed and put the bed inside so it was familiar to him.
The first few days were tough - he cried and barked to come out of the crate - when anyone new came into the room he tried to convince them to let him out too! :rolleyes::pac: It took a day or two to realize he was just chancing it to get out and he didn't need to go to the loo 5 or 6 times a day! At his first wound check back home with our vet she said that if there was a prob with him being crated at home he'd spend the next 3 weeks at the surgery - no ifs - it was happening and that was that so thats when I toughened up!! :cool: :pac: 3 loo breaks a day and that was it - once I stuck to this it seemed to help with the routine and honestly weeks 2-4 flew by! We practiced clicker games for something to use up his energy eg leave/take it, touch, which hand, give the paw. Also when he was on his loo breaks I'd let him lie down and sit beside him on the floor so he could have a stretch and brush/pet him which he loved.

I bought a few bits a pieces to make things easier
- A second crate
- hall runner type mats in IKEA for 10.99 each and put these down along his route to the garden so he wouldn't slip on the wooden floors
- 4 x XL kongs - we had 2 on the go and 2 in the dishwasher everyday lol
- I wasn't taking any chances with upset tummies so only fed RC sensitivity while he was in the crate
- A stronger nylabone
- Inflatable collar for when the stitches came out - he didn't bother about the stitches but the collar seemed to make him comfy lol
- kong paste/marmite for his nylabone :pac:
-take pics of the wound every day - if anything happens eg it swells you can compare the pics

I've attached a few pics - the one on the beach is from the weekend - he met his friend for a run in the waves! :pac: We're 5 months post op now.

LucyBliss

moving_home, in our case, Rose wasn't able to put weight on that leg at all. It was tucked up practically under her tail and when she'd sit down, she'd sit in such a way that she protected the sore leg. You'd see her shift position as she sat down and she'd give a little grunt.
I'd say that if she is putting weight on the leg, then she should be fine because sometimes a dog will hurt their leg and limp for a bit. I mean, the way they go mad running about - well, mine do! - it's a wonder they manage to avoid injuries.

cram1971, I'm sorry to hear that your dog hurt her other leg. The poor thing. Will she need another operation?
We got Rosie on crate rest pretty quickly and managed to keep her there despite her best efforts to guilt us or finagle her way out of it, so I'm confident her other leg is all right.
I hope it is because I've never seen the like of these three dogs I have to injure themselves or have allergies! God bless my mother for suggesting I get pet insurance the year before last!

moving_home

thanks a mil for that Lucybliss - good to hear your experience of this. ya she is running round mad when she got outta the house for a pee and seemed to forget that she had a sore leg!! had a mini freakout when you said about sitting sideways as I noticed that but just checked photos and was sitting like that in photos in the last couple of months so definitely think i am just being paranoid now

TooManyDogs

My 13 year old collie x did her cruciate too and I was advised to let it heal on its own rather than put her under GA due to her age. I had to keep her indoors for 6-8 weeks with only potter in the garden to pee but it healed up great. She's back to her usual self now

LucyBliss

moving_home, I should have been clearer. Rosie couldn't sit on it at all, she was always lying down and would lie on her other leg, if that makes sense, so no weight was on the injured leg at all. One of the other dogs likes to lean on one side when she sits (as in actual 'sit' on her backside) but that's just a quirk of hers. Rosie would go straight into the lying down position and bypass sit altogether, she was that sore.

It is easy to get paranoid though. In 2007, we had to put my grandmother's border collie to sleep because she had a heart condition (though she lasted six months after initial diagnosis) but she started off with a persistent cough. When I got these dogs, anything that sounded like a cough had me instantly freezing and watching them carefully. Then I began to realise that their 'coughs' were less the product of a bad heart and more to do with them swallowing bits of bark and sticks down the garden when they'd be chewing on everything in sight!

moving_home

ya i get you Lucy. My OH had commented on the way she was sitting aswell and he thought it was a bad sign but I actually think she is ok as she really is putting all her weight on it. I am hoping its just a muscle strain and it does seem to be improving. Thanks for all your help!

dreamer_ire

Had been meaning to come on and post an update on Honey. She had the op two weeks ago and was recovering really well. She had her first sessions of hydrotherapy and accupuncture and had started a very gentle exercise routine. Until yesterday....

She was momentarily unsupervised and she tried to jump on my bed. It now seems like the other leg is gone. Am sitting this morning waiting for the surgeon to ring me reagrding what can be done for her. So my advice is, like the previous poster said, have the surgery sooner rather than later so your dog doesn't oversompensate.

In the meantime if anyone has any advice on how to help a lame dog go to the toilet I'd be very appreciative.