Etiquette

Dero123

Wondering what others opinion is of this.
Played on Sat at home club. Our group was the last off on time before a large society. Got to our second hole a short enough par 4 and just before one of us was about to play ball lands about 20 yards behind us.
Fourth hole same thing happens. One of my playing partners decides after we hit off the fifth to go over a have a word, explains to them that we playing in our club competition, strokes of the back markers and to have a little respect and bear in mind they aree teeing of between 25/40 yards closer than us.
All was grand from there until we got to the 15th when as were walking downhill to the green after hitting our second shots one of there tee shots rolls between us, needless to say the ball disappeared;)
We played out the round and went into the clubhouse where a heated debate ensued when they came in.
Got a text then tonight from the third member of the group saying the other chap has been asked to explain his actions!!!

thoscon

Dero123 wrote: »

Wondering what others opinion is of this.
Played on Sat at home club. Our group was the last off on time before a large society. Got to our second hole a short enough par 4 and just before one of us was about to play ball lands about 20 yards behind us.
Fourth hole same thing happens. One of my playing partners decides after we hit off the fifth to go over a have a word, explains to them that we playing in our club competition, strokes of the back markers and to have a little respect and bear in mind they aree teeing of between 25/40 yards closer than us.
All was grand from there until we got to the 15th when as were walking downhill to the green after hitting our second shots one of there tee shots rolls between us, needless to say the ball disappeared;)
We played out the round and went into the clubhouse where a heated debate ensued when they came in.
Got a text then tonight from the third member of the group saying the other chap has been asked to explain his actions!!!

had the same problem at our club sat we were the last group off before a society ...on the 12th we were waiting at the side of the green for our playin partner to play a shot from the over beside the next tee box next thing we know a ball lands at our feet the **** had hit his second shot..bad form altogether.. they were breathing down our necks all round and hit a few drives up beside us aswell

FlutterinBantam

You shouldn't have to ask opinion on that kind of behaviour

bailey99

U robbed the ball from a group behind you. Which in my eyes make you as bad if not worse than the group behind you.

You should have contacted the club/pro shop to explain the situation and wait for the ranger/pro or manager to travel out to the group to officially warn them.

Were you honestly that naive to expect robbing there ball would not be challenged or issue raised after the round?????

k.p.h

I was not going to say anything because i agree with FB but to be honest bailey thats not true hitting a golf ball at someone is extremely dangerous in my eyes if ye had went back and hit yer man a few slaps it would have been debatable whether or not he deserved it(yeah i know but it really make me angry). After having a few words with them and they persisting to hit into ye taking their ball is only a minor bit of retribution. Probably should have done what bailey said though .Take the moral upper ground and all that.. althouh would not be much good for you if you were on the way to hospital.

bailey99

I heard about this in a club I was in before. Turns out the members who took the ball were disqualified from competition and would adjudged equally to blame.

They broke the rules (gentleman rules or whatever) and so did you. So taking the moral high ground that you warned them once or twice and they kept doing it is neither here nor there.

I understand your frustation, but dont show your naiveity by insisting there's nothing wrong with tampering/interferring with another players ball in the course of his round.

blackwaterfish

Dero123 wrote: »

Wondering what others opinion is of this.
Played on Sat at home club. Our group was the last off on time before a large society. Got to our second hole a short enough par 4 and just before one of us was about to play ball lands about 20 yards behind us.
Fourth hole same thing happens. One of my playing partners decides after we hit off the fifth to go over a have a word, explains to them that we playing in our club competition, strokes of the back markers and to have a little respect and bear in mind they aree teeing of between 25/40 yards closer than us.
All was grand from there until we got to the 15th when as were walking downhill to the green after hitting our second shots one of there tee shots rolls between us, needless to say the ball disappeared;)
We played out the round and went into the clubhouse where a heated debate ensued when they came in.
Got a text then tonight from the third member of the group saying the other chap has been asked to explain his actions!!!

in this situation i have to say i sympathize with anyone who would find it very very difficult to refrain from tampering with the perps ball and to only take the moral high ground.

Regardless of what the R&A may say..... to say the op's group is as accountable as the perpretrators group if they lifted the ball in question is nonsense. we're talking about a group who on two occasions put the OP's group in danger of a lobotomy ( this after being spoken to after the first incident!).

just to be clear... after one incident i would never touch the ball... but after two plus a warning... im sorry but im not going to allow you to kill me if it takes the ranger another hole or two to get out there.

Mister Sifter

Another example of why knacker-fest societies are a boil on the arse of golf. Instead of just taking their cash, perhaps clubs who are foolish enough to let societies on their courses should give these heathens a rules/etiquette induction before they are allowed to tee off.

WHIP IT!

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Another example of why knacker-fest societies are a boil on the arse of golf. Instead of just taking their cash, perhaps clubs who are foolish enough to let societies on their courses should give these heathens a rules/etiquette induction before they are allowed to tee off.

Clubs are starving mate, they're in no position to be turning down green fees nevermind a whole society.

wellsir

Society golfers a necessary evil these days.
Sometimes better to give then 20 mins before they tee off and 20 mins after.

You shouldn't have touched their ball however.

I once teed off on the 18th at home club, blind tee shot, completly forgetting that the Captain was ahead of us. I hit his bag (nailed one), he has never fogiven me for it.
But I genuinely forgot they were there as we were chatting on the tee...

Explained this to him afterwarsd but wasn't having it

Jul3s

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Clubs are starving mate, they're in no position to be turning down green fees nevermind a whole society.

Sifter's comment was obviously tongue n' cheek.

Op two wrongs don't make a right, did you even consider leaving them through before you took the law into your own hands.

WHIP IT!

Jul3s wrote: »

Sifter's comment was obviously tongue n' cheek.

Op two wrongs don't make a right, did you even consider leaving them through before you took the law into your own hands.

Obviously wasn't that obvious

blackwaterfish

Jul3s wrote: »

Op two wrongs don't make a right, did you even consider leaving them through before you took the law into your own hands.

are you kidding me!?... let them through so he can have a go at putting a ball in the back of someone else's head?

rules are rules and i get where youre coming from but when someone is at the risk of being injured, possibly seriously, i would like to think that the rules of "the game" ( one which i am passionate about ) take a back seat to common sense. personally i would risk disqualification rather than the slimmest chance of an asshole reverting to type and tomahawking someone.

fyi.. i carry the rules of golf in my bag at all times and am as fervent as anyone in theyre application.

please god never let me be in the group infront of you when you let a bunch of imbeciles thru'.

as regards societys.... a mandatory 5 min chat should be enforced by the gui prior to a society commencing play on any course in the country - for the purposes of the safety off all. you may not get to all attending but at least a percentage of those present who are prone to dangerous behaviour might refrain from brainfart decisions off the tee and elsewhere.

ShriekingSheet

Dero123 wrote: »

Wondering what others opinion is of this.
Played on Sat at home club. Our group was the last off on time before a large society. Got to our second hole a short enough par 4 and just before one of us was about to play ball lands about 20 yards behind us.
Fourth hole same thing happens. One of my playing partners decides after we hit off the fifth to go over a have a word, explains to them that we playing in our club competition, strokes of the back markers and to have a little respect and bear in mind they aree teeing of between 25/40 yards closer than us.
All was grand from there until we got to the 15th when as were walking downhill to the green after hitting our second shots one of there tee shots rolls between us, needless to say the ball disappeared;)
We played out the round and went into the clubhouse where a heated debate ensued when they came in.
Got a text then tonight from the third member of the group saying the other chap has been asked to explain his actions!!!

A good example here of how club golfers can be in the right, and totally complicate and antagonise the situation by taking a completely wrong approach.

The guy was rude and putting you in harms way. What the f*ck has you being members in a club competition playing strokes off the back tees got to do with anything?!

From the off, the member has positioned himself as more important than the society guy, playing real golf off proper tees. This sort of pompous attitude is what gives club golfers a bad name.

There's no come-back if he simply said "you nearly killed us, wait until we're well out of range". Saying all that other shyte just serves to p*ss the guys off and cause a row. As for robbing the ball... don't get me started.

Mr. Larson

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

What the f*ck has you being members in a club competition playing strokes off the back tees got to do with anything?!

What I read from that is that playing from those tee's put them more 'in range' from the yobbo's who were teeing off behind them. I.e. they were further back playing their second shots and although they may have moved on a bit after playing the second shots, they were still in range from the society tees well after that point? So they should have given them more time to move on - but didn't.

dixiefly

Jabberwocky wrote: »

What I read from that is that playing from those tee's put them more 'in range' from the yobbo's who were teeing off behind them. I.e. they were further back playing their second shots and although they may have moved on a bit after playing the second shots, they were still in range from the society tees well after that point? So they should have given them more time to move on - but didn't.

That is my reading of it.

And, I saw no pompous attitude in the OP's partner saying what he did.

I think the best option would have been to have contacted the pro shop at the same time as the original request for them to give more space and they would have had to reinforce the rules. That would have probably prevented the subsequent incident (not that it should have been necessary).


Also, I would hope that the society in question would have been reprimanded. The problem with societies is that you often get a variety of pleyers playing together that dont regularly play with each other, some strong personalities. There is a fair chance that it was one a$$hole that was getting impatient.

One thing to note, it is not always societies that get up to this. I have seen club members do the same.

Mister Sifter

dixiefly wrote: »

One thing to note, it is not always societies that get up to this. I have seen club members do the same.

Societies are vermin.

the lawman

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Societies are vermin.

Agree with the OP but the above is probably the stupidest thing I've read on the internet since its inception.

Well done, although I'm guessing its a wind up!

Anatom

Something similar to this happened to me last weekend in a club competition. On not one, not two, but on three occasions, the group behind (all ladies by the way, although that's not important) played right up to us, coming within about fifteen feet at one point, and on the fifth hole actually drove between my two playing partners as they were walking up to the green. At no point was there an attempt to apologise, or even a wave of the hand to acknowledge what had happened.

We weren't playing slowly, so there's no point saying we should have let them through. In fact the group ahead of us never got more than one hole ahead of us at any point.

This sort of behaviour is just rude and discourteous. I probably should have said something to them but as one of my partners knew one of them and as the three of us were pretty pi**ed off by them, I thought they'd take it up with them afterwards. I couldn't stick around afterwards to find out whether they did or not though.

So, three things about the OP...

1) Picking up the ball was wrong, no matter what. You lost any high ground you had by doing that, even knowing the frustration you were understandably feeling. Despite that, I wonder (and it wouldn't make it any more correct) if you'd done it earlier in the round would it have helped to correct their behaviour?

2) Societies are necessary for the existence of most good clubs. They are not an "evil" as some have said above. They give people a chance to play on different courses and enjoy the variety of experiences they bring. Chances are that most people posting here are, or have been, a member of one at some stage - even when they're a full member of a club (I know I am), so lets ease up on the "knacker"-style language. It doesn't help.

3) The fact is that any golfer, whether a regular club player or someone who just gets out a couple of times a year, should know the basic rules of etiquette. You don't play too close to the group in front. If you do, by accident or design, you should at least have the good grace to apologise.

the lawman

^^ perfectly put.

I am in the process of joining my first club so I hope I will not become someone who looks down on 'societies' like some on here seem to do.

I'm in a society in work and every outing we have played we have been received brilliantly by all and there is not one bad egg amongst us.

Sport101

Anatom wrote: »

We weren't playing slowly, so there's no point saying we should have let them through. In fact the group ahead of us never got more than one hole ahead of us at any point.

If you'd lost a hole ahead of you, you were playing slowly.

Anatom

"If you'd lost a hole ahead of you, you were playing slowly."

No, they didn't get more than a hole ahead of us. In other words, there was no point, throughout the whole round (apart from the par 3s) where they weren't at least on the green we were about to tee off at....

The point was that there was no excuse for playing up our jacksies like they were.

GetInTheHole!

The inability of some people to identify sarcasm when they see it is just frightening!!

OP – I think the problem lies with the fact that competition to get society’s business is now very fierce amongst clubs as it contributes in no small way to a clubs revenue through-out the year.

That’s why the club are probably more willing to give 3 members a slap across the wrist – as opposed to annoying a society that could provide repeat business and spread the word to others about how they were treated.
This is just a fact of the industry today.

Unfortunately you lost the argument (rightly or wrongly) when you took the ball. (Although that’s easy for me to say here and I honestly don’t know how I would react if I was in the same situation).
In any case, I’m sure your club has told them that you “will be spoken to”.

In relation to the comments on societies
I played in a society myself when I was a teenager and thoroughly enjoyed it. It is a great way to give somebody an introduction to competitive golf and as I’ve said already provide essential revenue for clubs in today’s climate.

I do think however, that there needs to be better management of societies on courses. Whether that be advising them of other groups on the course that day to marking out on their cards any potential bottle necks, blind spots etc.

There is also nothing more annoying than playing on a Sunday morning after there has been a large group out on the Saturday and having to repair several pitch marks on every green (this gets me very f**king vexed). That’s not about being knackerish or anything like that – it’s about people not having respect when playing on other courses.

In this case, I think that all courses should obtain a deposit from any external groups and only repay it based on the condition that the course is left in. Or at least something along those lines.

Sport101

Oh right, you were playing a par three course.

blackwaterfish

Just out of curiosity has anyone been involved in a scenario as discussed:

whereby a ranger or someone from clubhouse has had to either come out and referee an incident between the offendee's and the group ahead.

....or had to find the offending group out on the course and give them a warning?

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

What I read from that is that playing from those tee's put them more 'in range' from the yobbo's who were teeing off behind them. I.e. they were further back playing their second shots and although they may have moved on a bit after playing the second shots, they were still in range from the society tees well after that point? So they should have given them more time to move on - but didn't.

Yes, of course, though you miss my point. A straight forward point made by the club member was needlessly polluted with aloof pomp.

ShriekingSheet

blackwaterfish wrote: »

Just out of curiosity has anyone been involved in a scenario as discussed:

whereby a ranger or someone from clubhouse has had to either come out and referee an incident between the offendee's and the group ahead.

....or had to find the offending group out on the course and give them a warning?

Never seen a ranger have to "referee" a dispute. But our course ranger drives over to slow groups and tells them to get a move on regularly enough, yeah. Why do you ask?

Dammo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yes, of course, though you miss my point. A straight forward point made by the club member was needlessly polluted with aloof pomp.

The best type to use

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

What I read from that is that playing from those tee's put them more 'in range' from the yobbo's who were teeing off behind them. I.e. they were further back playing their second shots and although they may have moved on a bit after playing the second shots, they were still in range from the society tees well after that point? So they should have given them more time to move on - but didn't.

dixiefly wrote: »

That is my reading of it.

And, I saw no pompous attitude in the OP's partner saying what he did.

Dammo wrote: »

The best type to use

Would love to chat further with you kids, but I'm boardsing off the back tees in a serious debate with nearly 3,000 posts and 8 years experience. Kindly wait a few extra minutes before posting your silly little contributions.

lol

Mr. Larson

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yes, of course, though you miss my point. A straight forward point made by the club member was needlessly polluted with aloof pomp.

No, I got your point alright and happen to agree with the thrust of it - his group screwed up and lost the argument by picking up the ball... but I don't think his highlighting the tees they were playing off was anything other than illustrating the point about why they needed to wait a bit before hitting balls down at them. How it was percieved by the 'undersirables' is a different matter

the lawman

"The inability of some people to identify sarcasm when they see it is just frightening!!"

I figured he was on a wind up if you read the rest of the post....

I assume your talking about my reply in your line above?

PhilipMarlowe

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Would love to chat further with you kids, but I'm boardsing off the back tees in a serious debate with nearly 3,000 posts and 8 years experience. Kindly wait a few extra minutes before posting your silly little contributions.

lol

8 years... is that all?
Step aside mere registered user, I'm playing through...

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

No, I got your point alright and happen to agree with the thrust of it - his group screwed up and lost the argument by picking up the ball... but I don't think his highlighting the tees they were playing off was anything other than illustrating the point about why they needed to wait a bit before hitting balls down at them. How it was percieved by the 'undersirables' is a different matter

Well ok, but for what it's worth, I'm a club member and I perceived it as unecessary posturing.

Dero123

Thanks for the replies people, some heated debate. I agree we were in the wrong to pick up there ball and it was done in the heat of the moment. Also agree that societys are neccessary to keep clubs going I play in one myself.

Our club does employee a starter on a Saturday but these lads decided to tee off 20 mins before there official tee time and he did'nt see them. I tend to always play on that same time each Saturday and we have never had a problem before.
When we got to the 9th adjacent to the 1st tee we enquired as to whether he could speak to them we were concerned about the 15th hole but I am not sure as to what happened as the starter was gone by the time we finished up on 18.

All my playing partner was trying to do early in the round was to advise that because of the tees we were off the landing areas were a bit different and just to bear it in mind

CaptainPendulum

Something like this happened to me a few years ago in Grange Castle (before the new holes were added). The group behind kept hitting balls after us. On the 4th (lovely dogleg over water twice), their drive flew over or heads. I walked up to the ball and pretented to tie my laces. I then proceeded to, ever-so-slightly, plug the ball with my foot. Just enough so as to be unnoticeable. As we walked up the 5th (Par 3) I looked back to see Tiger dunk it into the drink. Funnily enough we didn't have any more problems after that!

dixiefly

Dero123 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies people, some heated debate. I agree we were in the wrong to pick up there ball and it was done in the heat of the moment. Also agree that societys are neccessary to keep clubs going I play in one myself.

Our club does employee a starter on a Saturday but these lads decided to tee off 20 mins before there official tee time and he did'nt see them. I tend to always play on that same time each Saturday and we have never had a problem before.
When we got to the 9th adjacent to the 1st tee we enquired as to whether he could speak to them we were concerned about the 15th hole but I am not sure as to what happened as the starter was gone by the time we finished up on 18.

All my playing partner was trying to do early in the round was to advise that because of the tees we were off the landing areas were a bit different and just to bear it in mind

Thats cheeky!!

If they had not been given permission then they should not have teed off. We played a visitors 4 ball in Mount Juliet last week and went out early only after we got the go ahead.

Kinda tells you what you were dealing with.

dixiefly

Sport101 wrote: »

Oh right, you were playing a par three course.

No he wasnt.....and it is clear from his post.

Villain

Had a funny one in my club recently where we went out early on a saturday morning and were on the 11th green putting when we were interupted by loud shouting on the 8th Tee box which is just across the water from the green.

The person was shouting "Golf Etiqutte" at the top of his voice at a 3 ball in front of him, he was part of a 2 ball and wanted to get through. You can only laugh at some people!

Starie1975

Licksy wrote: »

8 years... is that all?
Step aside mere registered user, I'm playing through...

..........belt the ball down on top of him!

Mister Sifter

Verminous knacker ^^

GreeBo

One thing to point out is that if the lads were playing off more forward tees ona course they didnt know its very possible that they had no idea how far away you were. When Im playing on a new course I usually wait until everyone ahead has hit their second and walked off, If I havent noticed that they played from longer tees then it is possible that a ball will make it near them.
If i see this happen I will of course apologise, if I dont then I have no way of knowing that Im impacting anyone...

Bottom line, say it to them, then get annoyed at them.

stylie

OP, how far behind the group in front of you were you ?

pinseeker

Reading about the of picking up the ball got me thinking of incident recently where playing partner came close to doing same thing with anger.
We were playing course i was checking out for possible membership.We were coming off a green and had to head back in direction of another green that was par3.
The tee box of this par3 is raised higher than green we were heading off so we would have been visible.
I was walking head down pulling trolley,i lifted my head only to see a ball bounce a few feet in front of me and whiz inches past my cheek bone over my shoulder and hit friend in chest behind me.
Not knowing where it came from my friend was fuming.We guessed it had to have come from par3 and funnily enough due to a hole being closed we had to walk by them as they headed to green.
I asked did they call fore to which i got in disgusting tone the word "no".I informed him his ball had narrowly missed my face and hit my playing partner.Thinking the jesus sorry would follow.
What he did say was "whatever go report me" again with shocking attitude.My partner said i believe sorry is the word your looking for to which he just kept on walking.
Partner was close to flinging his ball in water at time of being hit but said just not thing to do.
Hope i never see the likes again.
Joined the course mind you ha

Dero123

stylie wrote: »

OP, how far behind the group in front of you were you ?

Stylie, we were not behind them we were up with them the whole round. While we may not have been able to tee off straight away on most holes we were certainly waiting to hit into most of the greens.

Anyway the plot thickens just back from my club. Decided to go in and see the sec manager to see what the situation was after playing earlier today.

Appears the society tried to put people out and try get away without paying for them. Our club charges €400 per hour on a Sat up the society to get the numbers out. This society had booked from 9.15 -11.15. Two groups of them teed off between 8.50 and 9.05 before the starter arrived. The starter did approach this group on the 9th green after we had complained and none of them had the green fee tickets we issue nor did the group behind them. He then went into see their organisers to confirm numbers and the numbers he was given was six short if you include these two groups.
Our sec manager is intending to write to local clubs to advise re this society.

I am only a member of my club a year after moving from another club I'd been in for years and this time slot is the one I've been playing in quite regularly as it suits me and this was the only time I've had an issue as the club always keeps 35 mins from club competition to society times on a Saturday morning. I play in a society as well and always believe you should respect the course your at regardless.

Benicetomonty

Always a potentially maddenning issue and often devoid of realism..by going out on a golf course you are taking your life into your own hands, which is the first thing to remember. Naturally, if someone keeps reigning down shots on top of you it gets tiresome but an original offence ought to be viewed objectively.
Certainly the first thing you should check is whether or not you've lost your place on the course. And that doesn't mean there's no-one immediately behind you, it means you should be right up the arse of the group in front, or at least on the same hole. If someone drives into you, it is entirely possible they thought you were further on based on where the group in front of you were. You've still got the highground because they should've checked, but if you've ever been the victim of excruciatingly slow play, you'll know that least as many people will sympathise with your attacker as with you.

Where societies are involved, familiarity with the course can be a factor and yes, etiquette is unlikely to be as finely tuned when it comes to guys who don't play week in week out. Further more, if the ball lands 20-30 yards away from the green and you wait to give out, you are a menace and should get over your Monty ears and get on with it. If it rolls up the green, it's not a threat, merely a distraction, and a simple apology ought to be more than adequate, which may be accompanied by a compliment on your part if it was an especially impressive effort. If it continues to happen, you're on the verge of having a case. Picking up the ball or trodding on it is idiotic. Writing a letter to the comittee or a few well chosen words would be far more mature thing to do.

One final note. If you hit one offline, shout fore. Please. Always.

dixiefly

Dero123 wrote: »

Stylie, we were not behind them we were up with them the whole round. While we may not have been able to tee off straight away on most holes we were certainly waiting to hit into most of the greens.

Anyway the plot thickens just back from my club. Decided to go in and see the sec manager to see what the situation was after playing earlier today.

Appears the society tried to put people out and try get away without paying for them. Our club charges €400 per hour on a Sat up the society to get the numbers out. This society had booked from 9.15 -11.15. Two groups of them teed off between 8.50 and 9.05 before the starter arrived. The starter did approach this group on the 9th green after we had complained and none of them had the green fee tickets we issue nor did the group behind them. He then went into see their organisers to confirm numbers and the numbers he was given was six short if you include these two groups.
Our sec manager is intending to write to local clubs to advise re this society.
I am only a member of my club a year after moving from another club I'd been in for years and this time slot is the one I've been playing in quite regularly as it suits me and this was the only time I've had an issue as the club always keeps 35 mins from club competition to society times on a Saturday morning. I play in a society as well and always believe you should respect the course your at regardless.

I think its time to name and shame.