Maynooth may close: Hooray!

JonJoeDali

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/radical-shake-maynooth-michael-kelly

It is well known that this institute is the place that produced countless monsters. Not to mention the infamous "pink corridor". I sincerely hope it is razed to the ground.

philologos

Hopefully not before I get my degree next October :pac:

Edit: Ah only as a seminary. I see, carry on so!

homer911

I wonder what they mean by "not sufficiently orthodox"

irish_goat

It's being denied.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0324/1224292955426.html

JonJoeDali

irish_goat wrote: »

It's being denied.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0324/1224292955426.html

Nothing is confirmed like a good denial from the happy-clappies. It's out of their hands now - the power is being taken away from them and this is nothing but posturing. If only catholic communications were so up-to-speed with regards sex abuse.

JonJoeDali

homer911 wrote: »

I wonder what they mean by "not sufficiently orthodox"

Do you think seminarians sharing theology classes with 18 to 22 year-old women is appropriate?

Do you think the average Irish priest is up to the job theologically?

philologos

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Nothing is confirmed like a good denial from the happy-clappies. It's out of their hands now - the power is being taken away from them and this is nothing but posturing. If only catholic communications were so up-to-speed with regards sex abuse.

I find it strange that the "orthodox" RCC thinking is pretty much saying pull out of everything rather than use what we have to God's glory.

philologos

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Do you think seminarians sharing theology classes with 18 to 22 year-old women is appropriate?

Oh noes... That's because the theology degree is offered to non-seminarians too. Indeed, many of the seminarians are also in my philosophy class which is also gender mixed.

Surely the seminarians should be strong enough minded to discipline themselves if that is where you're coming from.

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Do you think the average Irish priest is up to the job theologically?

First point doesn't follow to second.

JonJoeDali

Jakkass wrote: »

I find it strange that the "orthodox" RCC thinking is pretty much saying pull out of everything rather than use what we have to God's glory.

Matthew 13

24 He put another parable before them, 'The kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

25 While everybody was asleep his enemy came, sowed darnel all among the wheat, and made off.

26 When the new wheat sprouted and ripened, then the darnel appeared as well.

27 The owner's labourers went to him and said, "Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? If so, where does the darnel come from?"

28 He said to them, "Some enemy has done this." And the labourers said, "Do you want us to go and weed it out?"

29 But he said, "No, because when you weed out the darnel you might pull up the wheat with it.

30 Let them both grow till the harvest; and at harvest time I shall say to the reapers: First collect the darnel and tie it in bundles to be burnt, then gather the wheat into my barn." '

strobe

JonJoeDali wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/radical-shake-maynooth-michael-kelly

It is well known that this institute is the place that produced countless monsters. Not to mention the infamous "pink corridor". I sincerely hope it is razed to the ground.

What's the 'pink corridor'?

homer911

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Do you think seminarians sharing theology classes with 18 to 22 year-old women is appropriate?

Not sure I understand your point - if you are saying that women should not be allowed study theology in a mixed class, then no, I dont agree with you. If you are saying that its "distracting" for the men, then again I dont agree with you - it would be more distracting to go for a drink in a pub, than to study theology with women who are interested in the subject, and I dont think for a minute that you are suggesting male seminarians should lock themselves in a cupboard until they are 23!

Do you think the average Irish priest is up to the job theologically?

Sorry, I dont know any average Irish priests...

JonJoeDali

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Do you think seminarians sharing theology classes with 18 to 22 year-old women is appropriate?

Do you think the average Irish priest is up to the job theologically?

If they cant share a class because they might get distracted, that doesn't bode well for tending to a mixed-sex flock later on

Fanny Cradock

How about we don't turn a thread about the potential closure of a theological school into a debate about child sex abuse. There is already a megathread for the latter so put it there. Any off topic posts will get the chop.

georgieporgy

Nhead wrote: »

Was the apostolic visitation to Maynooth part of the Vaticans response to child sex abuse and as a consequence wouldn't that be pertinent to the discussion??

Yes it was. Personally, I'm going to wait for Bishop Dolan to write his report before guessing what's in it. I don't know much about conditions in Manooth now but they were certainly pretty hairy some years ago.

JonJoeDali

georgieporgy wrote: »

Yes it was. Personally, I'm going to wait for Bishop Dolan to write his report before guessing what's in it. I don't know much about conditions in Manooth now but they were certainly pretty hairy some years ago.

I wouldn't say any reports will be available to the public. It's a private investigation.

Fanny Cradock

Read my last post. If you want to talk about sex abuse then I'm going to merge this with the thread specifically given over to discussing it.

JonJoeDali

strobe wrote: »

What's the 'pink corridor'?

deviant seminarians + one wing of the student residences + gay sex = pink corridor

Nhead

As far as I know it isn't shutting down anyway

Donatello

irish_goat wrote: »

It's being denied.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0324/1224292955426.html

They might be denying it because it is not true, or they want to preserve their reputations. The head of Maynooth can resign any time soon, and then the place could be closed shortly afterwards. That's my opinion of what the denial might mean.

I wonder where the Irish Catholic got their information though.

I'd like if Maynooth was closed. It is no longer fit for purpose. Send the men somewhere they'll receive a good priestly formation in line with Catholic faith and morals.

strobe

JonJoeDali wrote: »

deviant seminarians + one wing of the student residences + gay sex = pink corridor

Yikes....So.....there was a wing of the seminary where they were all just having gay sex with each other??

Was this a once off scandal or a constant 'tradition' in the seminary Jon?

Donatello

strobe wrote: »

So.....there was a wing of the seminary where they were all just having gay sex with each other??

Was this a once off scandal or a constant 'tradition' in the seminary Jon?

Fr. Briody told an interesting story:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/seminarians-drank-had-girlfriends-priest-says-307622.html

A DRINK-FUELLED, sexually charged atmosphere among seminarians in Maynooth saw some go on drinking binges while others had girlfriends and carried condoms, a priest who trained there claimed yesterday.
Other trainee priests had "inappropriate" relationships with other men in the college, Fr Joseph Briody said in a frank article in The Irish Catholic newspaper.

And one retreat director for the young priests even advocated gay marriages, he said.

Heavy drinking also played a part with a team skills weekend degenerating into a nightly drinking session, he said.

"Often the St Joseph Young Priest Society money was spent in the pubs on drunken binges," he said.

Donatello

This story is spin:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0324/1224292955426.html

In future, the Irish Catholic claimed, all Irish seminarians will be moved to a “reformed and restructured” Irish College in Rome which would reduce its intake of non-Irish students to make room for the Maynooth seminarians.

Commentators point out that such a move would not be entirely without precedent since the Catholic Church in Scotland has closed seminaries in Glasgow and in Salamanca, Spain, obliging all Scottish seminarians to study at the pontifical Scottish College in Rome.

Vatican sources, while acknowledging that the Holy See has been concerned about Maynooth for some time now, suggested the transfer of all seminarians to Rome seemed an “unlikely” recommendation. Were Irish students to do all their preparation for the priesthood outside of Ireland, they would risk losing touch with the Irish church in which they would later be called to ministry.

So it's OK for Scottish seminarians to lose touch with Scotland, but not for the Irish seminarians? A Vatican source could be anyone who happens to perhaps have a connection with the Vatican. Perhaps a priest who visited the Vatican once, or maybe works there. It really has no value. A Vatican source could be anyone from the cleaner to a high-ranking prelate. I suggest that the source here is neither.

I HOPE Maynooth closes.

Donatello

strobe wrote: »

Rock 'n' roll......

If I didn't know any better I would almost swear they were young humans being young...

But a seminary is not supposed to be like a university. Wacky-backy and lots of drink is expected to be found at uni, but a seminary is supposed to produce men who are alter Christus - seminary ought to be a formation in holiness. If that is not happening, then there is a major problem.

Seaneh

as above.
A seminary isn't like a normal university. Its not about 'exploring your identity' and 'figuring out who you are' or any of the nonsense that gets branded about to legitimize the crap that goes on at colleges.

Its about answering a calling to serve God and his people about discipling yourself to Christ and humbling yourself before God.

Priest/Pastors/Ministers/Reverends/etc are meant to serve God and his church, if that's not why they are in seminary, what's the point at all, they should just study arts and give up their pretense of being a Christian.

philologos

Indeed Seaneh, I think the problem that some people might have to that since 1997 St Patrick's College has been attached to NUI Maynooth which is a secular university and indeed it is just like any other university in respect to the drink culture and so on.

Although it is stupid to think that just because it is attached to a secular university that people somehow can't control themselves or live in the manner that the RCC desires them to.

Kiwi_knock

Jakkass wrote: »

Although it is stupid to think that just because it is attached to a secular university that people somehow can't control themselves or live in the manner that the RCC desires them to.

But that is exactly what the Church thinks, there is a big worry in the Vatican about the fact that the Seminary shares so many links with NUIM. It wants a completely separate department of philosophy that would only cater for seminarians. They also do not want them to be in the same class as lay students who are studying theology in St Pats. They want to prevent the seminarians becoming integrated into campus life.

The logic is flawed but that is what the Church is trying to advocate, and because it is not working that is why they want to relocate the Seminary to Rome.

philologos

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

But that is exactly what the Church thinks, there is a big worry in the Vatican about the fact that the Seminary shares so many links with NUIM. It wants a completely separate department of philosophy that would only cater for seminarians. They also do not want them to be in the same class as lay students who are studying theology in St Pats. They want to prevent the seminarians becoming integrated into campus life.

As a student of philosophy in the university. I find the Irish Catholic article to be absurd:

the faculty of philosophy has no full-time staff relying instead on occasional lecturers from the neighbouring National University of Ireland, Maynooth.

That's because SPCM and NUIM pretty much operate as a single university. From experience most of those "occasional" lecturers are excellent. Indeed there is a nice mix of perspectives with lecturers who would be involved in the RCC and those who wouldn't. Both lecturers that I have had who were priests in the RCC taught both philosophy of religion and moral philosophy in a very impartial manner. In respect to the philosophy of religion I didn't even know he was a priest until half way through the Semester because he never wore a clerical collar or shirt.

If they genuinely wanted the philosophy department to split that would be terrible for the university, actually worse for SPCM. They may as well just split the North Campus and South Campus as two separate universities.

Just wondering if anyone actually criticising the seminary on this thread is actually a student there?

JonJoeDali

Jakkass wrote: »

I didn't even know he was a priest until half way through the Semester because he never wore a clerical collar or shirt.

Ah yes, one of those - a priest in disguise. Far too many priests going round in wolly jumpers these days. Indicative of their liturgical happy-clappyness.

Jakkass wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone actually criticising the seminary on this thread is actually a student there?

Bishop Dolan never studied at Maynooth and is perfectly capable of forming a view on what should be done with it.

philologos

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Ah yes, one of those - a priest in disguise. Far too many priests going round in wolly jumpers these days. Indicative of their liturgical happy-clappyness.

Nonsense. He was serving his capacity as a lecturer at NUIM.

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Bishop Dolan never studied at Maynooth and is perfectly capable of forming a view on what should be done with it.

I don't know if he is. I study there and I know what its like. I also know quite a few of the seminarians. Most of them seem to have a genuine and sincere faith.

Nhead

Jakkass wrote: »

Nonsense. He was serving his capacity as a lecturer at NUIM.



I don't know if he is. I study there and I know what its like. I also know quite a few of the seminarians. Most of them seem to have a genuine and sincere faith.

Totally agree as an NUIM alumni and I would say that lay theologians have added a valued and different perspective to college life. NUIM and St Pats should be closer in some ways. I would hate if seminarians went back to a cloistered position as they will eventually have to work and life in the community. The Vatican can't protect them from that!

philologos

Will this report that Archbishop Dolan is making be available to the public?

Donatello

Jakkass wrote: »

Will this report that Archbishop Dolan is making be available to the public?

A summary of the findings of the Apostolic Visitation will be made public. There will also be recommendations made for the Church in Ireland. I'm guessing a summary of those will also be included.

Donatello

I read this comment on one of the posts on Fr. Z's blog:

From knowing some Maynooth students I can see that the polarization among seminarians is massive. Roughly about half the students there think the New Mass is a Judeo-Masonic conspiracy whereas the rest are so marinated in eco-feminist theology that they can hardly string a sentence together without the word ‘pastoral’.

I know that there are a diverse selection of seminarians in Maynooth right now (I know a couple of seminarians), from those who support priestesses and homosexual 'marriage', to those who are totally Catholic and will make fine priests.

Donatello

Did anyone see the 3rd April issue of Catholic Voice? There is an expose on Maynooth. It is an account of some seminarians who were forced out of Maynooth and they went to seminaries abroad. It's the usual catalogue of sins, from dissent to Church teachings on sexuality, priesthood, to a denial of the Eucharist, and so on.

They describe the heresy and decadence that reigned at Maynooth, and from what I hear, continues to this day. There are still the same problems on-going.

baalthor

Jakkass wrote: »

Indeed Seaneh, I think the problem that some people might have to that since 1997 St Patrick's College has been attached to NUI Maynooth which is a secular university and indeed it is just like any other university in respect to the drink culture and so on.

Although it is stupid to think that just because it is attached to a secular university that people somehow can't control themselves or live in the manner that the RCC desires them to.

Lay students were first admitted in the 1960s.
When I was a student there in the early 90s, the clerical component was down to around 10% of the total student population. Nowadays it must be in low single figures.

Back then the non-clerical part was a "recognised college" of the NUI so we were handed our degrees by College President Monsignor Ledwith who has since gone on to do other things ...

Part of the idea of opening up the seminary to lay students was that the clerical training was leaving priests out of touch with modern society. I believe for most of its history Maynooth clerical students were not even allowed out into the big bad world of Main St. Maynooth.

Even if the Catholic Church were to revert to that model of clerical training, the newly ordained priests would still have to work in parishes with the single mothers and the pre-marital sex and the XBoxes and the glue sniffing ...

Donatello

baalthor wrote: »

Lay students were first admitted in the 1960s.
When I was a student there in the early 90s, the clerical component was down to around 10% of the total student population. Nowadays it must be in low single figures.

Back then the non-clerical part was a "recognised college" of the NUI so we were handed our degrees by College President Monsignor Ledwith who has since gone on to do other things ...

Part of the idea of opening up the seminary to lay students was that the clerical training was leaving priests out of touch with modern society. I believe for most of its history Maynooth clerical students were not even allowed out into the big bad world of Main St. Maynooth.

Even if the Catholic Church were to revert to that model of clerical training, the newly ordained priests would still have to work in parishes with the single mothers and the pre-marital sex and the XBoxes and the glue sniffing ...

I shudder to think of the formation young seminarians must have received under Mon. Ledwith. :eek::eek::eek:

Does anyone doubt for a moment that the rotten priest crisis had something to do with men like this who formed the priests who went on to abuse boys?

Donatello

Fr. Z picked up on the Catholic Voice story - read it here.

Michael G

JonJoeDali wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/radical-shake-maynooth-michael-kelly

It is well known that this institute is the place that produced countless monsters. Not to mention the infamous "pink corridor". I sincerely hope it is razed to the ground.

I have just read the entire thread. If it does close, then Deo gratias. I have a very old aunt who is a nun, and her community had to leave their convent because the building was falling down. They had a beautiful chapel there.

I went to see my aunt in their new "residence" (as they called it). A nun in trousers was putting up some decorations in what she called the "prayer room". There were only some chairs, nowhere to kneel except the floor. And there was no Tabernacle.

There won't be any more nuns, except in Traditional orders. Please God let this deluded generation pass away soon, and judge them on their good intentions and not their foolishness and vanity.