Dangerous cycling bill mooted in UK Parliament

jeffwode

A Conservative MP in the UK proposed a bill to increase fines and sentences for dangerous cycling. Some bright spark is sure to have the same idea here before long, given the general hysteria in media coverage of cycling here, especially urban cycling.

http://bit.ly/e0PJzI

Lumen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Minute_Rule

"Most Ten Minute Rule introductions are instead used to stimulate publicity for a cause"

Andrea Leadsom, attention whore.

Vélo

jeffwode wrote: »

A Conservative MP in the UK proposed a bill to increase fines and sentences for dangerous cycling. Some bright spark is sure to have the same idea here before long, given the general hysteria in media coverage of cycling here, especially urban cycling.

http://bit.ly/e0PJzI

Proper order and they should bring in a law to make helmets compulsory too

Bunnyhopper

Vélo wrote: »

Proper order and they should bring in a law to make helmets compulsory too

Ah, jaysus, it's only Wednesday...

petethedrummer

Should there not just be a general law that if you kill someone out of stupidity you get a jail sentence. Regardless of what device (car, bike, halibut) you use to do the killing?

ednwireland

petethedrummer wrote: »

Should there not just be a general law that if you kill someone out of stupidity you get a jail sentence. Regardless of what device (car, bike, halibut) you use to do the killing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

Icyseanfitz

"two people killed by cyclists in 10 years" how could you even kill someone with a bike? i cant really imagine how its possible tbh , the only danger cyclists pose is to themselves

Chips Lovell

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

"two people killed by cyclists in 10 years" how could you even kill someone with a bike? i cant really imagine how its possible tbh , the only danger cyclists pose is to themselves

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2273214/Family-of-teenager-killed-by-cyclist-call-for-change-in-law.html

DrumSteve

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

"two people killed by cyclists in 10 years" how could you even kill someone with a bike? i cant really imagine how its possible tbh , the only danger cyclists pose is to themselves

And to the cars they routinely pull out in front of causing people to swerve. I have worked in Dublin City Centre for the guts of the last year and seeing a cyclist stop at a red light is very rare.

Icyseanfitz

el tonto wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2273214/Family-of-teenager-killed-by-cyclist-call-for-change-in-law.html

thats horrible what a bloody plank, most people on a bike would would have the common sense not to run into something which could just as easily kill themselves, still though that is a very very rare case of plankerisim on a bike killing someone

Oink

el tonto wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2273214/Family-of-teenager-killed-by-cyclist-call-for-change-in-law.html

Cost of the bike: £4750
Fine for killing the girl: £2200

What more can you say.

Beasty

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

"two people killed by cyclists in 10 years" how could you even kill someone with a bike? i cant really imagine how its possible tbh , the only danger cyclists pose is to themselves

Two were sent to jail for this - the one el tonto quoted was not sent to jail, only fined

This is one that did receive a jail sentence, albeit only 7 months

petethedrummer

DrumSteve wrote: »

And to the cars they routinely pull out in front of causing people to swerve.

works both ways.

Harrybelafonte

DrumSteve wrote: »

And to the cars they routinely pull out in front of causing people to swerve. I have worked in Dublin City Centre for the guts of the last year and seeing a cyclist stop at a red light is very rare.

petethedrummer wrote: »

works both ways.

Drum battle!

It happened here, btw too (pedestrian killed by cyclist). See Dubmess' post previously:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68489098&postcount=76

Icyseanfitz

Beasty wrote: »

Two were sent to jail for this - the one el tonto quoted was not sent to jail, only fined

This is one that did receive a jail sentence, albeit only 7 months

to me someone cycling into a pedestrian is akin to a runner running into a pedestrian, theres still the odd chance of someone dying but its not very probable, still horrible to hear about someone dying because of it though, i can definitely understand why the families would want laws brought in even though i might not agree

DrumSteve

petethedrummer wrote: »

works both ways.

Drum battle lol

Yeah I never said it didn't work both ways but if thats the case the law should be equal and applied equally.

blorg

2 people killed by cyclists* over a ten year period- out of a a total 32,298 road deaths. Clearly something urgent needs to be done about those killer cyclists.

*this is not to deny the individual tragedy but to put it in context. Incidentally in the two cases involving cyclists the cyclists behaved like ****, suggesting it was more to do with the person than their chosen method of transport.

Redjeep!

blorg wrote: »

2 people killed by cyclists* over a ten year period- out of a a total 32,298 road deaths. Clearly something urgent needs to be done about those killer cyclists.

*this is not to deny the individual tragedy but to put it in context. Incidentally in the two cases involving cyclists the cyclists behaved like ****, suggesting it was more to do with the person than their chosen method of transport.

Thankyou Blorg for being the voice of reason.

Run_to_da_hills

"Ministers are considering introducing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling.

It would mean cyclists who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians would be prosecuted in the same way as drivers.

A Bill is to be presented by Tory MP Andrea Leadsom, who has campaigned on behalf of a family whose teenage daughter was killed by a reckless cyclist".

From reading this case surely this was manslaughter irrespective if the guy was cycling a bicycle or jogging, he got away with murder literally ie just a 2k fine..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375553/Death-dangerous-cycling-New-offence-crackdown-bikers.html

Lumen

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056217242

Run_to_da_hills

Oink wrote: »

Cost of the bike: £4750
Fine for killing the girl: £2200

What more can you say.

It should have been confiscated and crushed by the authorities in case this idiot ever intended getting up on it again..

ednwireland

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375553/Death-dangerous-cycling-New-offence-crackdown-bikers.html

all i have to say

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would mean cyclists who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians would be prosecuted in the same way as drivers.

If it's anything like here, that's a bad thing. Car drivers literally get away with murder frequently under the absurd laws we have...

MarkR

Anyone who causes death my negligence, inattention, or gob****e behaviour should be prosecuted, whether they are driving a lorry or are on a pogo stick.

Shouldn't be under the road traffic act at all, more as an offence against a person.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If it's anything like here, that's a bad thing. Car drivers literally get away with murder frequently under the absurd laws we have...

Some of these modern bicycles have in excess of 20 gears and could out pace many mopeds and small scooters that require compulsory insurance and paper work. Maybe it is about time reckless cyclists are treated in the same contempt as other motorized road users.

ednwireland

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some of these modern bicycles have in excess of 20 gears and could out pace many mopeds and small scooters that require compulsory insurance and paper work. Maybe it is about time reckless cyclists are treated in the same contempt as other motorized road users.

what the heck has that got to do with anything ??????????

seriously is the logic here that bikes with more gears go faster (not true btw)

Did i miss sarcasm here ?

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some of these modern bicycles have in excess of 20 gears and could out pace many mopeds and small scooters that require compulsory insurance and paper work. Maybe it is about time reckless cyclists are treated in the same contempt as other motorized road users.

I'm saying that existing laws re road deaths are woefully inadequate. Kill someone with a car and you're likely only to get done on dangerous driving or maybe manslaughter and <5 years in prison instead of 20-life, . Copying that is pointless until it's reformed.

what does the number of gears have to do with anything?

blorg

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what does the number of gears have to do with anything?

In fairness 20 speeds is a lot of speeds, how many does a car have? 4 or 5? And won't someone spare a thought for the poor diesel locomotive.

Cookie_Monster

blorg wrote: »

In fairness 20 speeds is a lot of speeds, how many does a car have? 4 or 5? And won't someone spare a thought for the poor diesel locomotive.

my car has 6 forward and one backwards, and even with my 20 on the bike I can't get it to go 180pkh, unlike the car :P

seamus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some of these modern bicycles have in excess of 20 gears and could out pace many mopeds and small scooters that require compulsory insurance and paper work. Maybe it is about time reckless cyclists are treated in the same contempt as other motorized road users.

I had a comment, and then I deleted it because I realised you were being facetious.

tomasrojo

http://ukcyclerules.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/dangerous-reckless-cycling-bill/

I like this blog. Has anyone versed in Irish law considered a similar one?

spokeydokey

Sounds like wanna be shock jock George Hook will be covering this story evening..

Cookie_Monster

spokeydokey wrote: »

Sounds like wanna be shock jock George Hook will be covering this story evening..

he was indeed, only caught the end of it, some guy raving about how cyclists are extraordinarily dangerous and abusive to everyone :rolleyes:

monument

spokeydokey wrote: »

Sounds like wanna be shock jock George Hook will be covering this story evening..

At the start of this, part 2 of the playback, just after the news and a bit of talk: http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/221/monday/2/

Hook is a bit more balanced towards the middle...

monument

RE the UK case... There's been a lot of speculation and some misreporting that the cyclist was cycling on the footpath and some reporting left vague...

Just to be clear, the cyclist was not on the footpath when he hit the girl:

The cyclist, Jason Howard, was fined £2,200 after being convicted of dangerous cycling, an amount well above that often handed down to drivers found guilty of killing motorists as a result of dangerous driving. However, a police officer involved in the case told the BBC that the police believed the teenager was standing on the road, rather than the pavement, when the fatal collision happened.

From: http://road.cc/content/news/34372-road-safety-minister-reportedly-backs-dangerous-cycling-bill-dft-says-no-decision

A CPS spokesperson said: "A file of evidence from the police was reviewed by a senior CPS prosecutor and, based on that evidence, it was decided the charge of dangerous cycling was the most appropriate.

"Each case is kept under continuous review and following correspondence with Rhiannon's family, the case was looked at before and after the inquest into Rhiannon's death, which returned a verdict of accidental death.

"It was decided that the charge of dangerous cycling was the appropriate charge and there was insufficient evidence for more serious charges, such as manslaughter, to be pursued.

From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/7496757.stm

Not sure how a change in the law would change the burden of proof, there seems to be no need for the a new law:

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"It would mean cyclists who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians would be prosecuted in the same way as drivers."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375553/Death-dangerous-cycling-New-offence-crackdown-bikers.html

As already outline, that's nonsense. Cyclists can already be prosecuted in the same way as drivers. There needs to be sufficient evidence.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

From reading this case surely this was manslaughter irrespective if the guy was cycling a bicycle or jogging, he got away with murder literally ie just a 2k fine..

You read the case, or your read a Daily Mail article?

Murder need intent, so he did not get away with murder.

nak

I thought it came out in court that the kids were drunk and intentionally blocking the road in that case in England? The girl's friends lied to the police and told them that they were on the pavement. If a car driver had hit someone drunk on the road they wouldn't have been fined as heavily if at all.

If a group of drunk kids were hassling me, I wouldn't stop. What has the value of the guy's bike got to do with anything? None of us were there I, so don't know exactly what happened. Fines, prison sentences and legislation won't bring the poor girl back to her parents.

tomasrojo

There was never any suggestion that this was murder. Not even close.

His punishment seems pretty much in line with what a motorist would get if he hit a teenager on the road at 17mph (somewhat less, in fact). What makes the case seem objectionable is the suggestion that he was cycling on the footpath (this probably is not true) and that he shouted "I'm not stopping". The second of these didn't help his case very much at all.

I have to say, any road user should slow down when they come across unpredictable people or animals, and give them as wide a berth as possible.

tomasrojo

Whatever about the facts of the case (which seem to have ended up obfuscated, deliberately or not), hard cases make bad law. This case is way too freakish to be the basis of a new law anywhere.

Mucco

This has been picked up by the beeb - a better than average article:
Is dangerous cycling a problem?

tomasrojo

MP's proposed new law against 'dangerous cycling' looks doomed

While Andrea Leadsom vows to carry on after Commons setback, without government backing her private bill is unlikely to get any further

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/jan/23/mp-law-dangerous-cycling