Underage gays

normaldude

All,

I just read an article in the examiner about a Garda in his 20's been suspended, on an investigation into sexual encounter with a 16 year old boy....

Im just reading between the lines but I have talked to guys under 17 (saying there 18) on gaydar, who are up for having sex, but how are you suposed to know there age, ask them for proof of age before doing them??

wonderfulname

Doesn't matter if you're gay or straight on that one, if they misrepresent themselves then you did nothing wrong. Having said that I'm 20 and I know a 16yo when I see one, and maturity wise its pretty hard to find one on the same page as you so I doubt he was either in the dark or that its one of those poor couples who get screwed over for being just barely on either side of the legal divide.

Actually knowing someone a brief length of time before "doing them" would get rid of your worries though, its easy to lie for a night, its pretty hard for a week, harder for longer again. Or just meet your guys at a pretty strict bar or something.

oisindoyle

wonderfulname wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you're gay or straight on that one, if they misrepresent themselves then you did nothing wrong. Having said that I'm 20 and I know a 16yo when I see one, and maturity wise its pretty hard to find one on the same page as you so I doubt he was either in the dark or that its one of those poor couples who get screwed over for being just barely on either side of the legal divide.

Actually knowing someone a brief length of time before "doing them" would get rid of your worries though, its easy to lie for a night, its pretty hard for a week, harder for longer again. Or just meet your guys at a pretty strict bar or something.

You are totally WRONg in this assumption .If anyone has a sexual encounter with a minor,he/she can be prosecuted.
In fact there was a high profile case about 2 years ago where a 14yr old boy said he was nineteen and had sex with a number of adults.his mother found out got the Gards involved ,the two men who thought he was nineteen were jailed and the boy got off scott free ,despite his lies .

LegacyUser

I really doubt there's many people that are easily fooled when it comes to the age of the opposite sex. I'd say it can be tricky for straight guys alright because girls can wear heels and make-up that make them 'appear' older. Most young guys look young and if they dont they soon give themselves away maturity wise!
A more important question to ask would be what does a twenty something want with a teenager (even 18/19)? And why would you hook up with a randomer off Gaydar(which is supposed to be sleeeezy at the best of times...age/location/di@k size comes to mind) and have sex before you've even had a proper chat? I'm not judging I promise but if you take that kind of risky approach to sex then your leaving yourself wide open to a lot of dangers including being decieved by a young teen.
I know a guy who does this regularly and he seeks out young lads because he himself is an extreamely immature and very controlling 29yr old so it suits him to be able to 'lead' and easily manipulate young guys who look up to him-it gives him an ego boost because everybody else thinks he's a waster!

Chuchoter

If you are having sex with random "18" year olds off the internet, I'd definitely be asking for proof of age. It doesn't matter if they misrepresent themselves, you are still in the wrong.

lesserspottedchloe

Jesus, I remember it being an issue for a 'college guy' to be going out with a school girl-even if she was only a year or two younger! What does a 'normal', mature,experienced, sound-minded '20somethingyrold' individual want with a teenager anyway? What's wrong with people of the same age? That's just me though-I'd never find a teenage guy even remotely attractive! It's a different story when you're both in twenties upwards though because your adults and it's not pedo-like!:pac:

Rick_

I have been approached by quite a few people on gay dating sites / apps who have on their profiles that they are 18 or 19 but in conversation freely admit that they are 15/16/17 and yet they still wanted to meet me for some 'fun'. Even if I did do that sort of thing, which I don't as I consider it very sleazy, there's no way in hell I'd go near a minor. There is an alarming rate of them out there though posing as older guys to get some action.

Ken.

I remember reading a few years ago that guys in prague were actually bringing contracts with them on nights out for women to sign consenting to sex. the whole prague police department was tied up investigating them because at the time a rapist had to pay compo to the girl and most guys paid to get the charges dropped.

Annasopra

wonderfulname wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you're gay or straight on that one, if they misrepresent themselves then you did nothing wrong. Having said that I'm 20 and I know a 16yo when I see one, and maturity wise its pretty hard to find one on the same page as you so I doubt he was either in the dark or that its one of those poor couples who get screwed over for being just barely on either side of the legal divide.

Actually knowing someone a brief length of time before "doing them" would get rid of your worries though, its easy to lie for a night, its pretty hard for a week, harder for longer again. Or just meet your guys at a pretty strict bar or something.

I don't agree - you are the adult and more mature and you should and can be held responsible

LGiamani

normaldude wrote: »

All,

I just read an article in the examiner about a Garda in his 20's been suspended, on an investigation into sexual encounter with a 16 year old boy....

Im just reading between the lines but I have talked to guys under 17 (saying there 18) on gaydar, who are up for having sex, but how are you suposed to know there age, ask them for proof of age before doing them??

He is F***** big time. It is hard to tell with girls their age buy boys should be a bit easier. The guard should of had a bit more scence in fairness he is on the fronline on a daily basis. More than likely if he is convicted he will be thrown out of the guards and life and career destoried.

wonderfulname

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I don't agree - you are the adult and more mature and you should and can be held responsible

The law allows the defence of honest mistake, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not.

foggy_lad

Paddy C wrote: »

I have been approached by quite a few people on gay dating sites / apps who have on their profiles that they are 18 or 19 but in conversation freely admit that they are 15/16/17 and yet they still wanted to meet me for some 'fun'. Even if I did do that sort of thing, which I don't as I consider it very sleazy, there's no way in hell I'd go near a minor. There is an alarming rate of them out there though posing as older guys to get some action.

Even chatting online or in person in a sexual manner with underage boys or girls is an offence

Rick_

The conversations were never sexual and if they had have turned that way I would of ended the chat. Any chat I have had with an underage gay lad has consisted of me refusing their advances and advising them to be very careful whatever they choose to do. I'm not going to be able to stop them meeting older guys for whatever reason, but as long as I did my part by telling them to reconsider or at least be careful if/when they do then my conscious is clear.

normaldude

Foggy lad can you confirm that it is illegal to chat in sexual nature to a guy under 17 online? Then i guess half of gaydar should be in jail!

AndrewJD

I'm just interested in what a few posters said about 20somethings finding 18 year olds attractive - why not? I know a 22 year old who looks about 14, and an 18 year old who looks closer to 24. Eighteen year olds (or either side of it) don't have to be brace faced spotty teenagers. I just don't understand why this wouldn't be considered, in layla's words, "normal"?

Sir Ophiuchus

AndrewJD wrote: »

I'm just interested in what a few posters said about 20somethings finding 18 year olds attractive - why not? I know a 22 year old who looks about 14, and an 18 year old who looks closer to 24. Eighteen year olds (or either side of it) don't have to be brace faced spotty teenagers. I just don't understand why this wouldn't be considered, in layla's words, "normal"?

Em, yeah. Speaking as a 23-year-old seeing a 19-year old, I have to take issue with abnormalgirl and laylah's stance. People don't necessarily "want a teenager", they want to see someone whose company they enjoy. I'm not talking about gaydar hookups, obviously, but I think it's irresponsible to just draw lines between the sort of person who'd knowingly have sex with a 16-year-old boy and someone in college dating someone else in college.

Abnormalgirl, I know you have the experience of your friend acting somewhat inappropriately around this, but don't paint in broad strokes that offend people. Laylah, the same.

Dr. Baltar

Your Age divided by two and then added by seven is the rule I usually go for. Never fails.

azezil

laylah wrote: »

Jesus, I remember it being an issue for a 'college guy' to be going out with a school girl-even if she was only a year or two younger! What does a 'normal', mature,experienced, sound-minded '20somethingyrold' individual want with a teenager anyway? What's wrong with people of the same age? That's just me though-I'd never find a teenage guy even remotely attractive! It's a different story when you're both in twenties upwards though because your adults and it's not pedo-like!:pac:

Wow you've met a "normal" human, what are they like? I've yet to meet one.

diddlybit

wonderfulname wrote: »

The law allows the defence of honest mistake, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not.

As far as I can tell there are no laws regarding chatting to underage individuals online in Ireland at the moment, but they are being drafted at the moment (chatting or grooming). And the defence of honest mistake isn't a "I can't figure out the difference between a twelve year old and an eighteen year old", so therefore I can get away with it, despite how people interpret it. In the case of C.C v Ireland, the laws on statutory rape were changed to allow for honest mistake defence, she was 16 and he was 23, the defence was that she had told him that she was 17. There was an outcry and the media envisioned an appeals frenzy in which all child sex abusers would utilise the change in law. Someone did try, A v Governer of Arbour Hill, yet in a special sitting of the supreme court he was rejailed. (She was 12, and I have no idea how old he was.)

I went the a talk by the lawyer representing the man in the case below. they successfully won a case against the Austrian state (?) that legislated that it wsa discrimatory to have an age of consent for homosexuality, and another lower one for heterosexuality. (18 v 14) They won and the age of consent was lowered. The speaker ffound it absolutely baffling how Ireland could jhave an age of consent set at 17.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._L._v._Austria

LegacyUser

diddlybit wrote: »

As far as I can tell there are no laws regarding chatting to underage individuals online in Ireland at the moment, but they are being drafted at the moment (chatting or grooming). And the defence of honest mistake isn't a "I can't figure out the difference between a twelve year old and an eighteen year old", so therefore I can get away with it, despite how people interpret it. In the case of C.C v Ireland, the laws on statutory rape were changed to allow for honest mistake defence, she was 16 and he was 23, the defence was that she had told him that she was 17. There was an outcry and the media envisioned an appeals frenzy in which all child sex abusers would utilise the change in law. Someone did try, A v Governer of Arbour Hill, yet in a special sitting of the supreme court he was rejailed. (She was 12, and I have no idea how old he was.)

I went the a talk by the lawyer representing the man in the case below. they successfully won a case against the Austrian state (?) that legislated that it wsa discrimatory to have an age of consent for homosexuality, and another lower one for heterosexuality. (18 v 14) They won and the age of consent was lowered. The speaker ffound it absolutely baffling how Ireland could jhave an age of consent set at 17.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._L._v._Austria

It is interesting how they have a different age of consent for sexual acts (short of penetration) in Ireland for homosexual Acts and heterosexual acts. The Sexual Offences Act 2006, has left it, by default 15 for homosexual acts and 17 for heterosexual acts.

Its also important to note, that (accordin to s3 ss5-7) consent is no defence whilst, as mentioned earlier honest mistake is. But, as diddlybit mentioned, it is only a defence and must be a reasonable mistake and is ultimately decided upon by the judge -

(5) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this section for the defendant to prove that he or she honestly believed that, at the time of the alleged commission of the offence, the child against whom the offence is alleged to have been committed had attained the age of 17 years.

(6) Where, in proceedings for an offence under this section, it falls to the court to consider whether the defendant honestly believed that, at the time of the alleged commission of the offence, the child against whom the offence is alleged to have been committed had attained the age of 17 years, the court shall have regard to the presence or absence of reasonable grounds for the defendant’s so believing and all other relevant circumstances.

(7) It shall not be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this section for the defendant to prove that the child against whom the offence is alleged to have been committed consented to the sexual act of which the offence consisted.

diddlybit

lawguy12345 wrote: »

The Sexual Offences Act 2006, has left it, by default 15 for homosexual acts and 17 for heterosexual acts.

Thank you law guy I am not any expert of the law but unfortunately have to read up on it occasionally, yet the language always, I find is a little bit ambiguous. A question if you could answer, the 17/15 division is always described as carnal versus (I'm guessing) non-carnal which I, in the ambigigous nature of the law, interpreted as penerative as opposed to non-penerative. (Actually now that I've just googled various issues, I may be even more so confused on that matter.) I never interpreted Irish law as being discrimatory in regards to ages of consent as differing between homosexual and heterosexual ages. But I could be wrong because I have pondered upon the meaning of the term "carnal" for a long time, and have since had to come to my own conclusion as to what it means.

This has gone off topic apologies all.

tommyhans

Does anybody know what happened the garda in his 20's. i thin k i knew him but lost contact about 3 years ago.

AndrewJD

I could be wrong, but it's likely the investigation is still ongoing.

Aishae

im 27 and look about 19 - but thats only since my haircut - i looked about 17 with shoulder length hair - when i was 22 a fella asked was i 16 (he thought i looked it) - when 25 i was in NZ i handed over a note on the train for a ticket and he handed me back a ticket for under 15's! that was a bit excessive - i blame tha straw hat!
age can be a hard thing to judge... in this litigous (sp?) day n age - coupled with the way so many young uns try to look a lot older than they are - id probably id anyone i suspect may be young, but even then you can be wrong then. my 14 year old cousin looks older than me. i blame her boobs. but i know its the face...

where do you draw the line though? even id'ing people can be insulting if the person is 30 say

tommyhans

AndrewJD wrote: »

I could be wrong, but it's likely the investigation is still ongoing.

doubt it man. 4 years later???

Annasopra

tommyhans wrote: »

doubt it man. 4 years later???

eh - 1 month later!

tommyhans

Johnnymcg wrote: »

eh - 1 month later!

Dude that happened in 2007. Google it

Annasopra

tommyhans wrote: »

Dude that happened in 2007. Google it

The original post was last month. Why would the original poster start a discussion last month about something that happened 4 years ago?

tommyhans

I Dont know

wonderfulname

By Tom Brady
Wednesday March 23 2011
GARDAI have launched criminal and disciplinary inquiries into allegations that a member of the force had an inappropriate sexual relationship with an underage boy.

The garda is from the Cork area and is expected to be interviewed soon about the allegations. The garda was suspended from duty last Friday.

The boy at the centre of the allegations is 16 years old.

A garda superintendent from outside the area has been appointed to head the investigation.

Gardai became aware of the alleged relationship two weeks ago when a complaint was made, and a decision to suspend the man was taken.

The complaint was lodged by a member of the boy's family after suspicions were raised about his relationship with the garda. It was claimed that this relationship had been going on for several months.

Gardai are expected to complete their interviews with the boy and the complainant before formally putting the allegations to the suspended garda.

A file is then likely to be prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Garda authorities will consider separately whether disciplinary proceedings should be initiated against the officer.

- Tom Brady

Irish Independent

That settle it? It must be two separate incidences.

azezil

Aishae wrote: »

where do you draw the line though? even id'ing people can be insulting if the person is 30 say

Speaking from the point of view of a 30yr old, I'd be HONORED to be asked for ID