sit back down michael martin

raymon

How can Michael Martin stand up and pretend he or his party has some kind of moral high ground ?

Martin had developers donation money showing up in his wife's bank account. What the hell was that about ?????

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0201/1224288694192.html

Sit down Martin and let somebody else lead this charge.

Let's get the gardai involved in all cases of suspected corruption like lowry . FG or FF .

eddison

Agree 100%

Knew that P would get up on his high horse sooner or later- just didn't think it would be this quick.
Fact is I am not a supporter of Fine Gael, but I do think they are honest.

Truth= Martin has no shame whatsoever, and believes the public to be stupid.

Lets get together a list of all corrupt Fianna fail TD's !! and all corrupt fine Gale TD's !!

crafty dodger

I could'nt have put it better myself

I was wathcing the news last night and could not believe 'altar boy' martin was on his feet exasperated and lecturing on the evils of Fine Gael in accepting donations from suspect sources. You would nearly believe that FF did'nt know what a donation was!. The man must suffer from amnesia!

Anyway I could'nt stop laughing at the sheer hard neck of the guy and the mock 'shock and horror' of the TD sitting on the bench behind him

It's like a comedy!

20Cent

See if he's that way after the Mahon Tribunal.
Guy has no shame.

eddison

We are paying the Gardai to do a job, and they are not doing it- full stop.

As someone who pays their wages I WANT CORRUPT FIANNA FAIL POLITICIANS INVESTIGATED, AND ARRESTED.

Truth is The Gardai are payed by us- the public, but they do not work for us.
The Gardai work for the Government, and that is why politicians get away with armed robbery, fraud, deceit and lies.

If the Guards did what we payed them for, we would have a good, and prosperous country.

Rubik.

Martin, somehow, seems to have forgotten that the Moriarty Tribunal was established to investigate the financial affairs of both Micheal Lowry and Charles J Haughey. Not to mention, Martin himself rushing out to defend of the indefensible when Bertie was giving his risible evidence to the Mahon Tribunal.

serfboard

eddison wrote: »

We are paying the Gardai to do a job, and they are not doing it- full stop.

As someone who pays their wages I WANT CORRUPT FIANNA FAIL POLITICIANS INVESTIGATED, AND ARRESTED.

Truth is The Gardai are payed by us- the public, but they do not work for us.
The Gardai work for the Government, and that is why politicians get away with armed robbery, fraud, deceit and lies.

If the Guards did what we payed them for, we would have a good, and prosperous country.

Truth is, the Gardai cannot investigate matters like this because they do not have the same powers as the tribunal. They don't have the power to sequester bank account details and telephone records like the tribunal does.

Chuck Stone

Is it just me or do RTE seem to give M.M. way more airtime than he should be getting?

serfboard

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Is it just me or do RTE seem to give M.M. way more airtime than he should be getting?

MM is the leader of the opposition i.e. the leader of the biggest opposition party.

PatsytheNazi

eddison wrote: »

Agree 100%

Knew that P would get up on his high horse sooner or later- just didn't think it would be this quick.
Fact is I am not a supporter of Fine Gael, but I do think they are honest.

Truth= Martin has no shame whatsoever, and believes the public to be stupid.

Lets get together a list of all corrupt Fianna fail TD's !! and all corrupt fine Gale TD's !!

Mehole Martin may have no shame but he's right about one thing - the public are stupid.

eddison

serfboard wrote: »

Truth is, the Gardai cannot investigate matters like this because they do not have the same powers as the tribunal. They don't have the power to sequester bank account details and telephone records like the tribunal does.

Ok, I take your point, and I think the Guards do allot of good work, with little thanks, BUT no ever prosecuted? NO ONE? in all this time?? all through the 80's all the corruption??? I can't understand this, I mean how? Ok the Guards do not have the power to look into bank accounts, but can they do anything else? there must be something they can do, what about CAB? Do the Guards have their hands totally bound? or maybe there is no will to investigate politicians. Rob millions, and the Guards can't do anything about it, Rob a pair of socks from dunnes and you'll get put away.

The only answer I have- Is the commissioner in the pocket of politicians?
To make investigations must have political approval? Then and only then will the Guards investigate?



The one good thing about Fianna fail being kicked out is that Roach lost his seat- but there are so many little Roach's fleeing the scene now, no one knows where to start...

what a mess.

raymon

Nothing will come of this. Look at Callely, look at Willy o dea , look at Michael " developers money in my wife's account" Martin , look at Bertie , Look at Bev Flynn.

They all get away . Lowry will get away too

eddison

The only way all these corrupt politicians can get away with burglary, and economic treason is if we lay down, and let it.

The question is, will we as Irish Men allow this to happen to our country?
My answer is NO, I will not allow corrupt fianna fail politicians or Liar Lowry, or O' Brien to walk over me.


O' Brien should do the decent thing now, and own up, pay his dues. Cause if he doesn't both him and Lowry are in for public humiliation. this isn't going away. The public want blood, and will wait for it. So I hope traitor O' Brien, and that wimp Lowry are reading this.

wow sierra

There is nothing in the report that we didn't know already - we knew it 15 years ago, we knew it when Lowry got elected again and again in Tipp, we knew it when Denis O'Brien was interviewed extensively about his business in Haiti at the time of the earthquake and when he contributed to the rebuilding there and brushed shoulders like a messiah with all the world leaders.

It would appear Denis O'Briens multi-billion empire got a huge leg up from currupt dealings with politicians in the 90's. Would he have been totally unsucessful without it? Its difficult to say. One thing for sure he won't be losing sleep over the tribunal we spent millions on finding out what we already knew. He won't be paying for it or paying compensation to the people who lost out

We have had numerous tribunals in this country at disgusting cost to the taxpayers and I wonder have any of them achieved anything. Dodgy corrupt businessmen get things done and get ahead in every country. That is the depressing fact.

Focussing on Lowry is a side issue in a way.

Mr.Micro

Meehole Martin looks a state now, unkempt and looks like the baldy man. Him getting up, pretend outrage at corruption. He or his fellow Failures did not worry about Lousy in getting his support for the last 3 years? You can only laugh at the slime that ooozes about the FF benches and the rubber face of Lousy. Its written all over his mug, the type he is. He should be suspended from the Dail as Lousy does not have an ounce of morals IMO.

ted1

i hope the people for voted for any of the above named people are happy with themselves. Shame on them

BENDYBINN

Fine gael get 160 000 from BEN DUNNE
Ben dunnes rent is increased by 5 million a year--can somebody please explain?

raymon

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Fine gael get 160 000 from BEN DUNNE
Ben dunnes rent is increased by 5 million a year--can somebody please explain?

Wasn't that lowry too ?

glenkeeran

serfboard wrote: »

Truth is, the Gardai cannot investigate matters like this because they do not have the same powers as the tribunal. They don't have the power to sequester bank account details and telephone records like the tribunal does.

like why not, this is criminal activity... like drug dealers terrorist or any other thug any every power necessary should be used to bury theses scumbags.:mad::mad::mad:

raymon

The gardai are very feeble and weak on the area of corruption.

Callely , Michael Martin , bertie , I believe none of them will be investigated

As for lowry , just watch as his case gets dropped on some technicality

ilovesleep

raymon wrote: »

The gardai are very feeble and weak on the area of corruption.

Callely , Michael Martin , bertie , I believe none of them will be investigated

As for lowry , just watch as his case gets dropped on some technicality

I do hope you are wrong. These people used their positions of power for their own gains at our expense. they need to be investigated.

raymon

ilovesleep wrote: »

I do hope you are wrong. These people used their positions of power for their own gains at our expense. they need to be investigated.

I hope I'm wrong too. However none of them ever get investigated by the gardai, even when there is proof of dodgy dealings. They never get investigated, never.

Noreen1

Maybe it's time to put pressure on our new Government to ensure that corruption gets punished?

Wouldn't this be an excellent time for the Seanad to make/change whatever laws are necessary to ensure that there is a real deterrant to the kind of corruption we have witnessed - and allowed - for too many years now?

Liam Byrne

raymon wrote: »

I hope I'm wrong too. However none of them ever get investigated by the gardai, even when there is proof of dodgy dealings. They never get investigated, never.

Well Ray Burke got jailed, but that unfortunately appears to have been pretty much a one-off, with Haughey's crimes not investigated properly until he was more-or-less dying and Ahern's tribunal findings STILL not released 2 years later.

O'Dea - yes, the one that Martin welcomed back into the new "uncorrupt" FF - got away with his lies.

Anyone know what the state of play is with Callely's forgeries ?

raymon

Noreen1 wrote: »

Maybe it's time to put pressure on our new Government to ensure that corruption gets punished?

Wouldn't this be an excellent time for the Seanad to make/change whatever laws are necessary to ensure that there is a real deterrant to the kind of corruption we have witnessed - and allowed - for too many years now?

The laws are there . For example we have very elaborate forgery laws . But Callely never gets investigated. We have very robust perjury laws, but Willie gets away. Lowry , bertie and Michael Martin won't get done either . I'm not saying any of these are guilty , but we will never know because they are not investigated

raymon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Anyone know what the state of play is with Callely's forgeries ?

Yes justice has triumphed yet again . Ivor is now a peace commissioner

You might think I am joking , but I am actually serious

The Waltzing Consumer

The opposition are doing nothing but scoring own goals with this issue.

FF- Were in Government with Lowry in knowledge of these issues, FF are the Titanic of corruption compared to this rubber duck of an issue. Standards, what standards?

SF- Ssshhh noone mention Northern Bank, Gadaffi, robbing banks, killing Gardai and fundraising methods. They are moving on, but SF need to shut up, they look like the way Charles Manson would look if he starting condemning happy slaps.

Independents - I would like to see Ming being more vocal in this. SWP and SP will no doubt blame it all on capitalism, and after hilariously blaming Japans recent nuclear problems on capitalism, who would take them seriously.

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Independents - I would like to see Ming being more vocal in this.

At least Ming seems to have the cop-on not to whinge about Ben Dunne's illegal drug-taking.

southsiderosie

It seems like Ireland not only needs better white collar crime and whistleblower laws, but some kind of independent enforcement agency. In the US, the FBI takes care of this kind of stuff, not the regular police. And they generally do not press charges in these cases until they are very sure that someone is going to jail, so everything is very through.

wee truck big driver

the difference about tribunals and actual gardai investigating criminal trials the tribunals are based on supposition where as to get a conviction you have to prove something happened not just suspect that it has. the problem i have with the findings arent the money f.g and lowry got sure everbody knew about that. the real problem is the taxpayers money wasted so that a fat ass judge and his mates had a nice source of income drawing up a 200 page pile of steaming dog turd that is as much use to the ordinary people of ireland as a chocolate poker. i do find it strange that what this tribunal proves is that f.g if they where in power where open to corruption and the only reason we havent seen more cases of there coruption is that they werent in power.

wee truck big driver

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The opposition are doing nothing but scoring own goals with this issue.

FF- Were in Government with Lowry in knowledge of these issues, FF are the Titanic of corruption compared to this rubber duck of an issue. Standards, what standards?

SF- Ssshhh noone mention Northern Bank, Gadaffi, robbing banks, killing Gardai and fundraising methods. They are moving on, but SF need to shut up, they look like the way Charles Manson would look if he starting condemning happy slaps.

Independents - I would like to see Ming being more vocal in this. SWP and SP will no doubt blame it all on capitalism, and after hilariously blaming Japans recent nuclear problems on capitalism, who would take them seriously.

would f.g supporters just come out and admit that they where just as open to bribery and where only surpassed by f.f because they where basically impotent due to not be in a position to do anything.this poster is blaming everybody but f.g even though they took money from o brien which miraculoiusly edna knew nothing about (think this will be the standard answer as more of these come to light) f.g will find out its a lot easier throwing sh1t than it is to stop it sticking

wee truck big driver

raymon wrote: »

The gardai are very feeble and weak on the area of corruption.

Callely , Michael Martin , bertie , I believe none of them will be investigated

As for lowry , just watch as his case gets dropped on some technicality

i think you will find there was already a case with regard to ivor callely which he won an got back the money he lost through his suspension this action cost the state money and you want the state to waste more money see the thing is callely didnt do anything wrong technically he just took advantage of the system one of many im sure the only way to stop this is to have a simple system if your a t.d are other publice representative you get paid a wage thats it. i dont get paid for driving to work neither should they

raymon

wee truck big driver wrote: »

would f.g supporters just come out and admit that they where just as open to bribery and where only surpassed by f.f because they where basically impotent due to not be in a position to do anything.

So you are saying that one group were thieves , (this is correct ) and another group would have been thieves if they had the chance ????

Is that your position ?

Do agree that the thieves were correct to steal ?

Judgement Day

raymon wrote: »

Yes justice has triumphed yet again . Ivor is now a peace commissioner

You might think I am joking , but I am actually serious

Any link for this? If he is a PC there isn't a hope in hell of him ending up in court. Who would have appointed him and, more importantly, when? Presumably the last FF Minister for Justice?

wee truck big driver

raymon wrote: »

So you are saying that one group were thieves , (this is correct ) and another group would have been thieves if they had the chance ????

Is that your position ?

Do agree that the thieves were correct to steal ?

i dont think they where theives as such i think they took bribes in return for favours probably goes on in every section of work, life and community and people would be foolish to think it doesnt. should it no. can it be stopped not easily im afraid

wee truck big driver

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any link for this? If he is a PC there isn't a hope in hell of him ending up in court. Who would have appointed him and, more importantly, when? Presumably the last FF Minister for Justice?

he was in court and won

Liam Byrne

wee truck big driver wrote: »

i dont think they where theives as such i think they took bribes in return for favours probably goes on in every section of work, life and community and people would be foolish to think it doesnt. should it no. can it be stopped not easily im afraid

Well one good way of stopping it is voting out the crowd most prevalent and ensuring that every possible angle is used to see if they can be brought before the courts just like any other criminals.

Liam Byrne

wee truck big driver wrote: »

he was in court and won

He "won" the fact that they didn't deal with it properly, rather than whether or not he was guilty.

That also ONLY referred to his unjustifiable / bogus travel expenses, and not to the forged invoices which he submitted.

So there's no justification in pretending that Callelly got off.

wee truck big driver

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well one good way of stopping it is voting out the crowd most prevalent and ensuring that every possible angle is used to see if they can be brought before the courts just like any other criminals.

amazingly the crowd most prevalent is the crowd in power

wee truck big driver

i think you will find when politicans are doing favours for their friends they will be more careful to cover it up

Liam Byrne

wee truck big driver wrote: »

amazingly the crowd most prevalent is the crowd in power

What ?

You do know that there has been a general election and that the "crowd in power" has changed ?

glenkeeran

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The opposition are doing nothing but scoring own goals with this issue.

FF- Were in Government with Lowry in knowledge of these issues, FF are the Titanic of corruption compared to this rubber duck of an issue. Standards, what standards?

SF- Ssshhh noone mention Northern Bank, Gadaffi, robbing banks, killing Gardai and fundraising methods. They are moving on, but SF need to shut up, they look like the way Charles Manson would look if he starting condemning happy slaps.

Independents - I would like to see Ming being more vocal in this. SWP and SP will no doubt blame it all on capitalism, and after hilariously blaming Japans recent nuclear problems on capitalism, who would take them seriously.

Firstly there never has been any evidence regarding sinn fein and the northern bank, it has never been claimed by any organisation and the ira has always claimed responsibility on any of their actions,
Next what happened to Gerry Mc Cabe was an horrific and dipicable act and the men are still in jail which is against the terms of the good friday agreement but again sinn fein had no part of this act.
Then we come to fundraising methods "this one i have to laugh at".... the fundraising has mostly come from the USA and has done no harm to you, me or any other irish person but shall we go to Fianna Fail, their fundraising methods have bloody distroyed this country and i want these people investigated and now i am uncomfortable will the donations in the past to fianna gael.
Look every party in this country has had a bad past from civil war with ff and fg then of course the labour party was formed from demorcratic left which where a branch of sinn fein.. its now time for us to forward and for us a people to be more active towards politions and demand they repersent our country to the highest standards and quit the funeral going, planning permission getting politics we had in the past.

Liam Byrne

glenkeeran wrote: »

Next what happened to Gerry Mc Cabe was an horrific and dipicable act and the men are still in jail which is against the terms of the good friday agreement but again sinn fein had no part of this act.

I don't think I've ever seen a single sentence with so many inaccurate claims.

If it was a "mere" robbery and was "unsanctioned" then it had nothing to do with the GFA; if it was more than that then it broke the terms of the GFA.

Not to mention Ferris collecting the guys from jail, which both involves SF and disproved your claim that they are still in jail.

Anyway, think the thread is about MM's double-standards more than Gerry's and others'.

Judgement Day

glenkeeran wrote: »

Firstly there never has been any evidence regarding sinn fein and the northern bank, it has never been claimed by any organisation and the ira has always claimed responsibility on any of their actions,
Next what happened to Gerry Mc Cabe was an horrific and dipicable act and the men are still in jail which is against the terms of the good friday agreement but again sinn fein had no part of this act.
Then we come to fundraising methods "this one i have to laugh at".... the fundraising has mostly come from the USA and has done no harm to you, me or any other irish person but shall we go to Fianna Fail, their fundraising methods have bloody distroyed this country and i want these people investigated and now i am uncomfortable will the donations in the past to fianna gael.
Look every party in this country has had a bad past from civil war with ff and fg then of course the labour party was formed from demorcratic left which where a branch of sinn fein.. its now time for us to forward and for us a people to be more active towards politions and demand they repersent our country to the highest standards and quit the funeral going, planning permission getting politics we had in the past.

You should try reading the odd newspaper or listen to the occasional news bulletin before post this sort of crap. :rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0805/breaking14.html

raymon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Anyway, think the thread is about MM's double-standards more than Gerry's and others'.

Thanks liam, yes this thread is not about murders and bankrobbers . It is clear who they are.

It is to debate Michael Martins double standards .

He has still not really explained why Owen o callaghans money ended up in his wife's bank account

Lowry needs to be brought to justice , but not by someone who has questions to answer himself.

So sit back down Michael , let someone with more integrity lead the crusade against corruption

raymon

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any link for this? If he is a PC there isn't a hope in hell of him ending up in court. Who would have appointed him and, more importantly, when? Presumably the last FF Minister for Justice?

Judgement Day

Where was that picture taken - Clontarf or West Cork?

raymon

Judgement Day wrote: »

Where was that picture taken - Clontarf or West Cork?

Dublin ..... I nearly choked when i saw it