Not getting on with best friends girl

LegacyUser

Hi,
Just a little background. I moved in with one of my best friends about a year and a half ago. Good friends, used hang out a lot, go to matches, to drinking and so on.

Anyway, he started seeing a girl just before Christmas. She didn't really endear herself to me at first. The first few times I met her (on nights out) she really seemed to disapprove of me and my girlfriend, called her lame and stuff. I was a bit taken a back that someone I hardly knew would be saying that.
On the other hand my friend is over the moon with her which is great. She fights with him a lot, over very stupid things. She talks about her ex a lot and still lists him as her boyfriend on facebook. My friend spends a lot of money on her to the point where he is complaining he is caught for money lately (he has a good job, never had this problem before), spent around 5 or 6 hundred on her at Christmas only knowing her a month, takes her away a lot of weekends, buys her dinner 4 or 5 nights a week yet she gives him a very hard time.

Anyway, he spends a lot of time with her, she calls him after work most nights and has to go to her, I can see he is wrecked but never seems to say no. She comes over a lot. It got to the point where she was almost living there, but made no effort to talk to me, or interact, used to sulk and argue with him until all hours of the morning and made it very awkward. After a friday and saturday of being kept up til 4am with arguing I got mad at my friend and said it had to stop. I lived there too and it was just so awkward and I didn't want to be involved in all the fighting. He told me that the reason she makes no effort with me is that I scare her. I have no idea what I did to make her feel that way. The fights have calmed down but she still makes little effort.

Their relationship probably isn't my business, if he's happy, I'm happy for him. Its just that, its like I'm losing my friend. She obviously doesn't care for me much and since he spends every night with her, we never hang out anymore. At the weekend when we make plans to go out he ends up slipping out without saying much to go out with her and her friends.

Lately though I've learned that it's not just her friends, its our friends too. I see her leaving messages on my other friends facebook inviting them out on nights or to parties or events. She posts pictures of nights out and it's all our friends there too. They would ask me where I was the next week but I had no idea they were all out. I assumed he was going out with her friends and I wasn't welcome, which was a little sad in itself given I'm his best friend and we always went out together but if it was "her" night then fair enough if she doesnt want me there.
Its just that now its her friends and all of my friends too but my room-mate doesn't say anything to me, he just slips out as if he's just going out with her. I don't know if he doesn't want to bother anymore or if he is just delegating not to fill me in on plans because she won't like it if I'm there.

The point really is I'm losing my friend. Short of being all over her to win her over I don't know what to do. I'm really disappointed we don't hang out anymore but if it was for a girl then guys do that sometimes, it's just that I find it odd she invites his other friends out but not his housemate and best friend.

Should I just leave it go and accept it or is there any way to bring things back. I've spent a lot of weekends at home alone now and I'm getting a bit fed up of it. I don't really want to lose my friend but I get the feeling I'm not welcome anymore with her on the scene.

Two words: High Maintenance. Want a third one: Ugh.

I doubt you could even win this girl round if you tried. She's clearly manipulating your friend. She says she's scared of you, but if you started being nicer to her she'd probably accuse you of coming on to her or something. She's basically an immovable object. You'll just have to go around her. Say to one or two of your friends that you keep getting left out and ask them if they could text you next time they're going out. The girlfriend will most likely have a hissy fit to your friend but if she'll probably be too scared of looking like a bitch if she says anything to anyone else. Keep your friends around you, she's unlikely to act out infront of them.

The arguing in the house thing you can't really fix in so far as they're not planning their fights (well your friend isn't), but try to ignore it. Don't stay cooped up in your room or anything, it's your house too. A problem I've seen with friends is that if they have their own place and their relationship is kinda intense is that they sorta end up playing house. If you don't stake your territory, they could start treating you like some sort of unwelcome houseguest. By stake your territory I don't mean pee everywhere, just don't stay out of their way, it's your place too.

cantdecide

+1, T/F.

I'd add that you seem to be doing as well as can be expected so that's to your credit, OP. Unfortunately, it looks like you'll have to continue being the one that bites his tongue.

I think long term, people do realise they’re being manipulated so play the long game. If I were invited out by a friend’s new gf and found out that someone had been excluded, I’d take a very dim view of the situation. As suggested, confide on one or two mutual friends that she has taken a set against you and she’s actively trying to exclude you. Don’t blab to all and sundry.

She sounds just wonderful so if your friend ever finishes with her, it would be great for you to resume your friendship without ever having had a pow-wow even if it was justified.

Chinafoot

Op, she sees you as a threat. She's most likely aware that you can see through her so she's keeping your mate away from you. Telling him she's scared of you is a great way to do this. She gets to play the "scared little girl" that needs protecting by her boyfriend and she gets to paint you as the ogre.

Your friend is being a mug. Plain and simple.

I agree with the other posters who say you should confide in one or two close, mutual friends about this. She probably has them all fooled but if they knew she was deliberately excluding you they will (hopefully) see her in a different light and be a bit more wary. If it was me though, I would say it to my friend. I'd just ask if there was a problem/if I had done something to deserve such exclusion. He has to know that you're aware it's been going on. You have mutual friends after all. He's either being incredibly stupid or he just doesn't give a crap.

When it comes to the arguing in the house, personally I wouldn't be biting my tongue over that. It is your home that you pay to live in. I would be sitting him down, in a non-confrontational way, and telling him that you need your sleep and that her being there so much and al the fights are disturbing your sleep. If he has an ounce of reason left in him, which unfortunately could be doubtful, he'll see that they're being out of order.

Unfortunately OP, having seen this before, I think your mate is going to be gone until he realises what this girl is and how many friendships he threw away. Talk to him about it if you can before things get worse.

IrishEyes19

Agree, she sees you as a threat, the best friend often is and if she's high maintience and always wants her bf around, she doesnt want him being that close to you.

Why would you want to win her over? I know you want your friend back, but the dignity lost in winning someone who acts like her wouldnt in my opinion be worth it, as she'll never have respect for you, just know she'd have you under thumb with you afraid to upset her "happy" balance.

Best thing you can do is stay out of it, I know its hard because you've lost your friend, but these relationships dont last either, he'll eventually get sick of her ways, she sounds like a user the way you said he pays for everything.
Have any of your mutual friends noticed or said anything in your favour about this?

LegacyUser

Hi, OP here again,

Thanks for the replies...
I sometimes feel I'm being hard on her, like it's in my head or something but I don't think so.
Point from last night, my friend went home early from work, not feeling well, went to doctors, had been asleep when I came in up to about 8. He got up for some food and while we're chatting his phone rings..."Hello.......Eeeeh, maybe a little while, I'm not feeling so good... Hello? Hello?" she hangs up... cue him calling back a few times and agreeing to go to the pub or something.
Again it appears they were going out with friends. No sign of asking me "hey fancy a pint?" even. Not that I expect it every time but if it was the other way around and we were having a social night, I'd surely ask my girlfriends housemates if they fancied a pint, I'd just think its the thing to do if I'm around their house.

Last weekend was similar. He was supposed to take her away for the weekend. He did but looks like it was a trip for a few other friends too (facebook photos galore on monday), anyway, I knew of the trip but thought it was a romantic getaway so thought nothing of it.

I mean I've said some stuff... he knows I think he spends too much time with her. I can't win. If I critisise her in any way he takes a step back. If I'm all over her as you said, I just can't be that person and yeah, she'll probably say I'm coming on to her or soemthing. Its just like drama-queen central. We both got some stuff out in the open when we argued about the fighting a few weeks back

If she were to go away this weekend herself I know my housemate would be making plans with me to go drinking and stuff but with her there he just vanishes and says nothing.

I think he;s just delegating. He knows she doesn't like me or want me there so easier to just say nothing to me about where they go and take her but he's being a bit dim if he thinks I don't realise.

Sorry, I'm probably just a bit mad. We were great friends and it's just weird it's changed so much but we still live in the same house, yet there's no fun anymore, not bit of craic ever, and getting frustrated with not having plans for the weekend, or having them and having them broken. I don't want to fight, just have the fun like always.

cheesey1

awkwardhouse wrote: »

and getting frustrated with not having plans for the weekend, or having them and having them broken. I don't want to fight, just have the fun like always.

why don't you make plans for this weekend with your mutual friends and see if your mate and his gf come along, or if they then try to contact them to make plans - she sounds like a right pain but unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it unless you sit your mate down and tell him you feel excluded when on weekends they go out and don't invite you.

LegacyUser

Thanks folks for the advice.

Maybe to an extent I have to grin and bare it. I am pleasant to her, try to make conversation and get along but I am not bending over backwards. I thought I was being more than accomodating before letting her come over EVER night and take the house over without a word but she says that I wasn't being nice to her and wasn't making an effort to make her feel welcome in the house.

I've tried making plans for the weekend already to go for a few pints over the Irish international. Thing is, every time I try this it falls into a few categories:

- I ask and can't get a straight answer, just a mumbled sort of "Hmmmnnyeahh". Basically he doesn't know if she will allow it and won't commit.
- He says yes but at about 9 o'clock he gets a call and finds some way to slip out the door when I'm getting ready or having a shower.
- He actually agrees and DOES come out. She will show up within an hour and find a reason to take him away.

I've actually spoken about it to him about not getting an answer or changing plans if we make them and he said he understood. But what its turned in to is he is just unwilling now to make plans or just doesn't tell me whats going on. I think that when I spoke up about her coming over every night and causing a bad atmosphere in the house I upset her more too and she just doesn't want me involved.

It just annoys me. I would love to get on with her, I have my own girlfriend and it'd be nice if we could all hang out together too but we just can't seem to. I guess I'm disappointed too. I've had other friends who've disappeared when they meet girls and they usually come back looking for you to go out drinking at the drop of a hat once they break up with the girl. Its just what some guys do. Its just that in this case her attitude is what gets me, for a million reasons I feel my friend is way more invested in her than she is in him but she is getting all the attention and presents she wants now. If that stops and he cops on, I can't see her sticking around but that only make him try harder to keep her. I feel bad because I don't think she's good for him.

Chinafoot

cheesey1 wrote: »

why don't you make plans for this weekend with your mutual friends and see if your mate and his gf come along, or if they then try to contact them to make plans -

OP, this is a great idea. You need to be proactive here. I know he's your best friend but don't let this girl keep you from your other friends. You should never be dependent on one person for your social life when you have other friends. It's Wednesday, give some of your friends a buzz and say "Fancy a few beers at the weekend?" and take it from there. If your friend and his girlfriend go, then they go. If they don't then it's their loss.

Distorted

I'm not sure I agree with putting all this blame onto the girl. Your friend is the one enabling it. Is this not a side of your friend's character you have seen before? She is very attention demanding but OTOH he seems to be enjoying having his attention demanded in such a way! Its a relatively new relationship so she can't have changed him this much so he must like being a bit of a doormat.

I had two male friends in the same situation, sharing a flat and one of them got a girlfriend like the one you describe. The other was driven slowly mad but it was well recognised that the other guy was the type that liked being bossed around and organised. He and his girlfriend have now bought a house together and the other friend and indeed all of us hardly see him any more.

The Lovely Muffin

Distorted wrote: »

OTOH

Off-topic, but what does 'OTOH' mean?:o

MissFlitworth

awkwardhouse wrote: »

I've tried making plans for the weekend already to go for a few pints over the Irish international. Thing is, every time I try this it falls into a few categories:

- I ask and can't get a straight answer, just a mumbled sort of "Hmmmnnyeahh". Basically he doesn't know if she will allow it and won't commit.
- He says yes but at about 9 o'clock he gets a call and finds some way to slip out the door when I'm getting ready or having a shower.
- He actually agrees and DOES come out. She will show up within an hour and find a reason to take him away.

I think what people are getting at, and I agree, is that you should bypass your housemate completely and start organising your social life with your mutual friends instead of trying to organise pints etc with him. He's clearly well under the thumb and this won't change in the short term so just leave them to it and make plans with other people. They only get to have the monopoly on your mutual friends if you let it happen. He's a completely sh1t friend by the way to deliberately try and exclude you from meet ups with all of your friends

johnboysligo

awkwardhouse wrote: »

We were great friends

Really? doesn't sound like that to me. hes snubbed you, walked out of the house while your getting ready for a night out :eek:his behavior stinks for someone who is meant to be your friend, as true-or-false said she is high maintenance you friend is trying to keep her happy and your friendship is suffering.
In your place I would assume that he is not and may never be best friends, that doesn't mean you should stub him but just make plans to live the social life you want.

What goes on between him and her is none of your business but it does become yours when you cant use your home as you please.

oh and i would remove him and her from your facebook wall ( move your mouse over one of their updates and click the little X and Hide all by this" ) that way your heart wont sink when you see more social events that dont include you but you wont actually un-friend either of them, you just wont see what they write on their wall unless you check their profile yourself.

Purple_Bobbin wrote: »

Off-topic, but what does 'OTOH' mean?:o

on the other hand

The Lovely Muffin

Purple_Bobbin wrote: »

Off-topic, but what does 'OTOH' mean?:o

johnboysligo wrote: »

on the other hand

Thank you.

cafecolour

MissFlitworth wrote: »

I think what people are getting at, and I agree, is that you should bypass your housemate completely and start organising your social life with your mutual friends instead of trying to organise pints etc with him. He's clearly well under the thumb and this won't change in the short term so just leave them to it and make plans with other people. They only get to have the monopoly on your mutual friends if you let it happen. He's a completely sh1t friend by the way to deliberately try and exclude you from meet ups with all of your friends

Yeah, ignore him and her, call other friends and arrange activities.

Or are all your friends through him?

Little Acorn

I agree with what others have said so far.
Arrange early every week plans for the weekend with your mutual friends, as in get in there before she does. [Do invite her and your mate, just so she doesn't have something else to use against you.]
If she arranges something before you get the chance to, then txt one of the mutual friends saying "so what's the plan for the weekend", obviously as they are your friends they are going to tell you and ask you to come.
Then you tell her or your best mate, "oh so and so texted me earlier about Friday night, should be a good night, looking forward to it"

She is enjoying the control she has of isolating you, so this is going to seriously piss her off, but she won't be able to do fcuk all about it to stop you.
What she probably will do, is anytime you arrange something before her, is refuse to go out and keep your friend with her.
Anytime where she arranges a night, and you get invited along by someone else, is probably again refuse to go out, or else sulk and drag your friend away early.
If she is still bitchy towards your girlfriend, then be sure to bring your girlfriend out too, so that the rest can witness firsthand her being bitchy to your gf.[That's only if your gf doesn't care] It will really show up her bad side.

This will work to your advantage. When your friend spends several weekends cooped up alone with her sulking and arguing with him, or when he has to cut short several nights because of her throwing a hissy fit because you're there, and when he realises that he is being isolated from not just you but all of his friends, and that his social life has been boiled down to just arguing with her in the house alone-THEN he should hopefully cop on and dump her like a hot potato.

She really sounds like a piece of work. "I'm scared of him":rolleyes:, when presuming you are telling the truth, you have done absolutely nothing to make her feel that way.
She dislikes you so much purely because as someone else pointed out,you can see her for what she is.
It's likely your friend has told her that you have voiced your concerns to him about their arguments, and the amount of time he spends with her, so she is doing her best to cut you off from him. She probably is even hoping you move out.

I can't stand manipulative people like her,who play the victim and tell lies to get people on their side! :mad:
I know one of these people in real life, and nobody annoys me more than her. The amount of arguments she has caused over the years is unbelievable, yet thankfully nobody takes anything she says seriously anymore, as she has been proven time and time again to be nothing but a ****stirrer and drama queen.

Fight back, and good luck OP.

Fox McCloud

While she is obviously a nasty piece of work, I would have the serious issue with your so-called best friend.

He is letting her cut you out, running out while your in the shower when ye have plans?! ffs! if anyone did that to me they would no longer be my friend!

People can get all loved up and silly when they're in a new relationship, and with old friend you tend to give them a little leeway with missing nights out or spending little time with you.. But there is a line to how much you take. A friendship is not suspended during relationships. I think we all know where this thing with his girlfriend is going.. he'll come to his senses eventually(or his bank balance will make him!) Whether your there to help him pick up the pieces or not is your call.

Do you really want a best friend who's willing to drop you every time he's got a new girlfriend?

LegacyUser

Sorry for bumping this but there were some more developements.

Firstly I appreciate all of the advice. Someone said about re-evaluating how good a friend he is/was. Its been on my mind a bit. I used to think we were good friends, we always had a laugh and thats how we ended up sharing an apartment. Having said that, yeah, I'm surprised at how easy it was to pretty much cut off his best friend for someone he knows five minutes. I have plenty of friends who spend less time with the guys once they get a girl, its understandable but this one was a bit more than just that.

Anyway, another weekend, and our house as ever was better than any episode of Eastenders.

We were both invited to a mtual firends birthday party, that was a good thing. We were there and drinking away. Was chatting to my friend a bit but she would drag him to the other side of the room saying she needed him whenever we were chatting and then he'd go with her and I'd see her not saying anything to him. I presume to get him away from us.

The night went on, I was talking to him again when another friend told him he should check on his girl. Sure enough she was in the next room straddling another guy. Obviously my friend lost it and stormed off. I went after him and she was trying to seperate us so I kinda loudly said "Will you please let me talk to my friend!". I caught up with him but he didn't want to listen. I was just told to F Off. I didn't say anything I shouldn't, just tried to calm him down. Anyway she came running along caused a scene and I was taken away by my other friend.

I came home later in the night and she was at the house, I could have lost it but held it in.
Since then he's not speaking to me. She's been over every night and as I write this, is currently in his room shouting the place down. Yet somehow I am the bad guy in all of this.

It's just doing my head now. To be honest I have enough on my plate, working late hours the last few weeks, and other stuff going on. The stress and things putting me in a bad mood isn't helping things with my own girlfriend either at the moment.

It's just like our own Eastenders and Neighbours episode all rolled in to one. Its like they feed off the drama of it. Like they would be bored without it. I'm at my wits end to be honest. As his friend I think she is a nasty piece of work. I can't really believe after what she did, he is all over her right away again and not talking to me. I don't know if she's had a word with him or something I said, or didn't say or what but they whole thing is just ridiculous and I have enough on my plate now. I don't even know why I care but her drama is effecting me too if she is here all the time starting things off and keeping me up late. I just wish he'd cop on and see it.

LittleBook

awkwardhouse wrote: »

t's just doing my head now. To be honest I have enough on my plate, working late hours the last few weeks, and other stuff going on. The stress and things putting me in a bad mood isn't helping things with my own girlfriend either at the moment.

Can you move out? I'm fairly sure this is what she wants and normally I'd be very reluctant to abandon a friend (in need). But your friend is no longer a friend and your home sounds like a nightmare.

Do what you can to disconnect from these people and make sure to maintain your other friendships.

Just leave him to it.

MissFlitworth

awkwardhouse wrote: »

Obviously my friend lost it and stormed off. I went after him and she was trying to seperate us so I kinda loudly said "Will you please let me talk to my friend!". I caught up with him but he didn't want to listen. I was just told to F Off.

TBH I can see why he'd tell you to eff off there, what were you doing trying to insert yourself in the middle of that? If your friend catches his girlfriend with someone else it's not up to you to talk to him or make things better, he was probably in an absolute stinker of a a mood, what could you possibly have said that would fix that, all it did was make you look a little bit desperate to swoop in as soon as their relationship looked to be in trouble and put you in the position of shouting at someone who has previously claimed to be scared of you.

Honestly I think you need to leave these people alone, they sound like they have an incredibly unpleasant relationship ahead of them and you shouldn't be hanging around to have any part in it. He's not going to pick your side over hers, she's not going to stop being nuts, you won't be sitting down with your mate in a couple of weeks having a pint and laughing about the weird mental patch he went through where he didn't want to hang out with you anymore. They sound like awful people, I agree with the last poster who suggested you move out

ongarboy

You still refer to him as your friend. Imagine you treated a friend like he is with you? Wouldn't it show that you had very little respect for him and thought very little of him? Friends treat each other with respect and look out for each other. Do you want to be mates with someone who seems to be showing such little regard for you?

His GF's personality and behaviour (while appalling) is actually irrelevant here. She was that way before she met your mate and will be long after he eventually (maybe) has the sense to dump her. I'm not sure how much you have broached the subject with the mate about how unhappy you now are about the deterioration of the friendship, the sense of exclusion you feel and all the other negative situations regarding this that have impacted you.

Sit down with him when you are feeling calm and have a one to one non confrontational chat about how you feel. Do not turn it into a session of you bitching about her and how she is not good for him. He will resent you for that. If he is a decent friend, he will listen and take into account what you say and correct you/clarify where you have misinterpreted some events or reacted the wrong way. If after this conversation, you feel no progress has been made, then maybe it's time to consider if the friendship is worth keeping and/or find new accommodation with a happier atmosphere for you. I know it's not easy to lose a mate you thought was the real deal but people sometimes do change. Hopefully the mate will see sense and start treating you with the respect you deserve (even if he remains with the GF).