Boss wants it all his own way

miketheDIYman

:eek:Working as Service Engineer for this Company for few years - not so bad until recession hit Boss cut all pay by 10% and will not pay any overtime, also shouts and roars a lot- the usual mantra " you are lucky to have a job " and " you are working against the Company " gets into a rage and says " if you don't like it - you know what you can do" etc

Hours are 8.30 to 5 and were paid overtime previously, especially when on country runs. But now he's pushing us to work beyond normal hours with no pay, giving us calls at 10 mins to 5 and sending us to Cork with a load of calls expecting them all to be done.

Can he change our Terms like this - so far we have resisted doing extra hours for him but he is starting to get more threatening. When in the country is it reasonable to leave work at say 4 pm in order to arrive home in Dublin at a reasonable hour ?

wmpdd3

He cant change your terms if it isn't in your contract.

But, if he asks you to change your conditions and you say know he may leave you go.

I would be looking for another job. I usually find when a boss ( with no management training) starts ranting and raving like this they are trying to get rid of just 1 or 2 slackers that are draging down the place but don't know how.

Could you casually ask him if he would write a reference for you? or would that end in all out war.

Think about it, is he able to manage everyones performance or does he just rant at everyone?

What would his reaction be if you did hand in your notice?

miketheDIYman

Thanks for your reply wmpdd3 - firstly I was never given a written contract and know this breaks all the rules but means I am working under an implicit contract the terms have become binding at this point

You say he can't change my terms But, if he asks me to change my conditions and I say no he may leave me go - do you mean he can dismiss me ?

surely there must be a discussion and some negotiation involved

I would appreciate your opinion on country work finishing time - where no overtime is being paid

wmpdd3

Basically no, if you refuse new conditions, he can dismiss you. If you are in a union they may back you. you could sue, if he had little reeason to change conditions, you could win, but its alot of maybes. See if you can get all/most of the employees to join a union.

LegacyUser

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Basically no, if you refuse new conditions, he can dismiss you.

not strictly true...you could be made redundant...but not dismissed.
this would make a difference if you needed to claim social welfare...plus you would be entitled to a payoff for cancelling your contract.

wmpdd3

Not if you job still exists but you will not do it.

Example: You are a weekend-manger in a retail store for 15 years doing 3 days/ 17 hrs per week.

You are given 8 weeks notice that you will be working as a manager on a 45 hrs week. 5 over 7 days covering your old position with the rest of the managers who will now work the weekend hours.

If you refuse to do this you will not get redundancy as your position is there but it has different hours of work.

If you leave you have left your job voluntarily, you would get nothing. You might be able to argue constructive dismissal, but if all other managers agree to the new work practices, you seem to be inflexible and not interested in maintaining the profitability of the business.

miketheDIYman

you are not addressing the point - I am being paid for 40 hours work per week - hours of work 8.30 to 5.00 over 5 days - my question is : when having to do a country run is it reasonable to finish work at 4 in order to get home at a reasonable hour, say, from Cork to Dublin. If working in Dublin and I finish at 5 I will be home at 6 or 6.30 at the latest

bbam

miketheDIYman wrote: »

you are not addressing the point - I am being paid for 40 hours work per week - hours of work 8.30 to 5.00 over 5 days - my question is : when having to do a country run is it reasonable to finish work at 4 in order to get home at a reasonable hour, say, from Cork to Dublin. If working in Dublin and I finish at 5 I will be home at 6 or 6.30 at the latest

I worked as a Technical Field Service Engineer for five years and there was no regard of finishing time in relation to getting home in any particular time.. We either worked to complete a job at whatever time possible if it was urgent, or worked until 6pm and made our way home then...
I'd say it's a weak point to be pushing.

wmpdd3

miketheDIYman wrote: »

you are not addressing the point - I am being paid for 40 hours work per week - hours of work 8.30 to 5.00 over 5 days - my question is : when having to do a country run is it reasonable to finish work at 4 in order to get home at a reasonable hour, say, from Cork to Dublin. If working in Dublin and I finish at 5 I will be home at 6 or 6.30 at the latest

The fact is:

Boss wont pay over time.
This is a change to your contract.
You start a call at 16:50.
Finish at 17:15.
Home at 18:35

The fact is if you refuse to do start a job at 16:45, your boss can refer to the conditions he has imposed on you and if you don't agree to them, what can you do? get a solicitor?

What was the other option if ye didn't take the pay cut?

Formosa

miketheDIYman wrote: »

you are not addressing the point - I am being paid for 40 hours work per week - hours of work 8.30 to 5.00 over 5 days - my question is : when having to do a country run is it reasonable to finish work at 4 in order to get home at a reasonable hour, say, from Cork to Dublin. If working in Dublin and I finish at 5 I will be home at 6 or 6.30 at the latest

It's tough out there, maybe your boss is trying to keep the company afloat and by extension keep all your jobs.

You should make more of an effort.

miketheDIYman

well Formosa the problem is I make great efforts and am very conscientious in my work, have a good work ethic and am very loyal to my employer - But I do not like to be taken advantage of - and will not work for nothing ( after hours ) also you have overlooked that we are all being treated like dirt - next thing you'll be echoing the boss's mantra - you should count yourself lucky to have a job !

duckysauce

Formosa wrote: »

It's tough out there, maybe your boss is trying to keep the company afloat and by extension keep all your jobs.

You should make more of an effort.

lol the op is being taken for a ride by his boss , if your are driving back from the country you should get paid ot for after 6.15 - 6 .30 , you are being used

Eire Go Brach

duckysauce wrote: »

lol the op is being taken for a ride by his boss , if your are driving back from the country you should get paid ot for after 6.15 - 6 .30 , you are being used

Yes very true. The OP is also being bullied. That is something you need to look at too.

bbam

I suppose if you want to be pedantic you should look at the terms in your contract... Is travel time considered paid time??.

Lots of people work 8:30 till five and then have to travel home without getting OT for their travel...... It may well be that the boss was being generous giving OT for travel and now is just back to basics..

I'd say the best thing is to look for a compromise of some sorts... the least is gained by going head to head on this stuff..

D.McC

miketheDIYman wrote: »

you are not addressing the point - I am being paid for 40 hours work per week - hours of work 8.30 to 5.00 over 5 days - my question is : when having to do a country run is it reasonable to finish work at 4 in order to get home at a reasonable hour, say, from Cork to Dublin. If working in Dublin and I finish at 5 I will be home at 6 or 6.30 at the latest

The point is, you want to be paid for the first 60 minutes of your journey home :eek:

Your employer pays you from 8.30 to 5.00, if you leave every job an hour early thats 5 hours a week, 20 hours a month. :eek:

If there are ten employee's and everyone leaves the job an hour early then thats 50 hours a week, 200 hours a month.

Maybe your boss should only pay you all till 4pm and hire someone to pick up the excess 50hrs :rolleyes:

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The fact is:

Boss wont pay over time.
This is a change to your contract.
You start a call at 16:50.
Finish at 17:15.
Home at 18:35

The fact is if you refuse to do start a job at 16:45, your boss can refer to the conditions he has imposed on you and if you don't agree to them, what can you do? get a solicitor?

What was the other option if ye didn't take the pay cut?

Employers aren't obligated to pay over-time. If an employee is required to work in excess of the the daily hours, say to finish a job. The employer only has to paid the flat hourly rate.

On the other hand, of the boss asks the OP to go to a job at 4.45, the OP agree's but can still finish at 5pm (as this his offical finish time)

duckysauce wrote: »

lol the op is being taken for a ride by his boss , if your are driving back from the country you should get paid ot for after 6.15 - 6 .30 , you are being used

Maybe we should all be paid to travel to and from work. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The OP is paid till 5pm. He is required to work till 5pm, regardless of the location of the job

miketheDIYman

well D.McC I consider I am still working while driving home from a distant country run - my colleagues and I are usually home by 6 pm when we are working around Dublin and had been paid overtime previously for country runs - if you had your way - workers might not arrive home till midnight and you wouldn't care a toss - you seem very like my boss - no heart

D.McC

If you were to read any of my other posts, you would see I'm very pro-employee but am also a realist.

You cannot expect to be paid to travel home, when every other worker in the country is making their way home at their own expence.

Your employer is under no obligation to pay an enhanced rate of pay for over-time, but they must pay you while working any extra hours needed to complete the work. This doesn't mean you recieve payment while travelling home,as this is not time spend working :eek: but to ensure you are paid, you and your colleagues are prepaired to committ 'clock card fraud' to ensure you are not been screwed over by your boss.

The facts are;

You are paid from 8.30 till 5pm Monday to Friday and you should be prepaired to work from 8.30 to 5pm.

If you worked in front of your boss, in an office, you could skip out of work at 4pm while still expecting to be paid till 5pm :rolleyes:

Employee - "I'm heading home now. I know it's an hour early, but I'd rather sit in traffic on your dime"

Employer - "Ah sure, go on then. As the boss I have to ability to **** money and the company can easly afford to lose an hour of productivity and yet still ensure you suffer no loss, and get home on time.

Employee - " I knew you'd see it my way"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Rhys Essien

Just out of curiosity,Is the business down (amount of work)compared to say 5 years ago?.Has there been many layoffs in the recent past?
Did the boss always have this bollo(ks attitude,or is he just taking advantage of the times we are in?.
My own boss went on a bit like that about 2 years ago and luckily he snapped out of it.

miketheDIYman

Hi Rhys - business is probably down a little compared to 5 years ago - but the boss is able to buy stock at a cheaper rate now as suppliers have had to become more competitive, and takes advantage of all the deals that are on offer. He has always been pushy but is definately taking advantage now - knowing jobs are hard to come by ( especially for me as I am over 60 ) his thinking now is that employees should be prepared to do anything to hold onto their jobs and I don't think he's going to " snap out of it " anytime soon !

Lord Nikon

If you are asked to work from 8:30am to 5pm, my suggestion is to work in those times. If your boss asked you to go on a run at, say, 4:45pm, make the effort and go for the run, but at 5pm, wherever you are return back to the place of business. Work to Rule.

If your boss has a problem, he will say something, but this is ware you both come to a mutual agreement. Either he pays you for your time after 5pm, or he doesnt ask you to go on a late run just before 5pm.

Whatever you do, DO NOT say you want to get paid for your travel home time. This is asking for trouble.

Diom

Mike...

You need to approach your boss with a constructive solution. For example, you could say that you can only start a new job further than "X" kilometres from Dublin before a certain time, or start a new job between than "Y" & "X" kilometres from Dublin before a certain other time. Calls that come in after this time must be handled the next day. This will allow you time to travel there, fix the average solution, and travel back to your base (NOT HOME) to file a report or invoice or whatever.
If there is an urgent service required then you will do one between x & y per week and one farther than x every forth-night. Otherwise an additional fee should be charged. OR ask him to pay a set "on-call" fee per week that you are "on-call".

Remember that he IS your boss, and he will get it his own way. The key is to make sure that it is fair for both of you. Instead of saying "no" try to work on it constructively.