One small step for mankind [religious based thread]

Sanjuro

Well, all mis-quotes aside, a pretty interesting article on the BBC website about the decline in religion. The decline in religion in itself isn't that surprising, but what is, is that Ireland is listed in the countries in the study. And with the upcoming census, it'll be interesting if reality mirrors the findings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

Discuss.

Or don't.

Oh, and here's the article for those that prefer a quote-

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

Nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.

One of the team, Daniel Abrams of Northwestern University, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.

At its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.

"The idea is pretty simple," said Richard Wiener of the Research Corporation for Science Advancement, and the University of Arizona.

"It posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.

"For example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking Spanish instead of [the dying language] Quechuan in Peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not."

Dr Wiener continued: "In a large number of modern secular democracies, there's been a trend that folk are identifying themselves as non-affiliated with religion; in the Netherlands the number was 40%, and the highest we saw was in the Czech Republic, where the number was 60%."

The team then applied their nonlinear dynamics model, adjusting parameters for the relative social and utilitarian merits of membership of the "non-religious" category.

They found, in a study published online, that those parameters were similar across all the countries studied, suggesting that similar behaviour drives the mathematics in all of them.

And in all the countries, the indications were that religion was headed toward extinction.

However, Dr Wiener told the conference that the team was working to update the model with a "network structure" more representative of the one at work in the world.

"Obviously we don't really believe this is the network structure of a modern society, where each person is influenced equally by all the other people in society," he said.

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

"Obviously much more complicated things are going on with any one individual, but maybe a lot of that averages out."

Heh heh. Doctor Weiner.

PeterIanStaker

This can only be a good thing for Western society, but there are still plenty of Arab fundies out there who will happily take out a trainload of us Westerners. I would prefer if religious afilliation in the Middle East was in decline.

Sanjuro

Well it is a study based solely on 'western' countries. Religious fundamentalism in the middle east seems to buck the trend of the decline of religion in the west.

The world is changing.

I for one cower in fear from welcome our new atheist oppressors overlords

PeterIanStaker

I know it is about the West, I read the article this morning.
The point I'm trying to make is that I would prefer that the Middle East became more secular/less religious.

InTheTrees

Deleted User wrote: »

The world is changing.

Thank God!

:cool:

Sanjuro

I'm not arguing your point. I whole-heartedly agree. While I think there needs to be a separation of church and state in all countries (and hopefully the decline in religion will lead to this), it seems that those countries in the middle east are retreating more and more to religious leadership. And that is a little alarming.

Standman

it'l be strange when the atheists aren't the underdogs anymore

PeterIanStaker

I know you're not trying to argue dude, and yeah it is alarming that the Middle East is going backwards. Read Sam Harris's The End of Faith for a better description of this than I can give here.

Sanjuro

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Dyr

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I know it is about the West, I read the article this morning.
The point I'm trying to make is that I would prefer that the Middle East became more secular/less religious.

We need a secular crusade :pac:

Ghost Buster

Bambi wrote: »

We need a secular crusade :pac:

Good luck with that. I'll herd the cats you do the rest:D

jill_valentine

Hang on, why do we think the Middle East is moving in the opposite direction?

A lot of the uprisings we're seeing in North Africa in particular have gone to great pains to emphasise the fact that they're secular movements, at least in comparison to the ones that have gone before.

PeterIanStaker

Bambi wrote: »

We need a secular crusade :pac:

Not now, I'm on Boards. Sheesh.

pragmatic1

About fcukin time.

Agricola

jill_valentine wrote: »

Hang on, why do we think the Middle East is moving in the opposite direction?

A lot of the uprisings we're seeing in North Africa in particular have gone to great pains to emphasise the fact that they're secular movements, at least in comparison to the ones that have gone before.

True. Theocracies breed both ignorance and fanatics. If the middle east could achieve democracy and free education for all, we'd see an end to religious fundamentalism inside a generation.

partyatmygaff

The number of Religious people may be on the decline here in the West but I doubt it will ever become "extinct" as the article says.

In any case, the rest of the world is actually showing an increase in the number of people professing a Religious belief. As it stands, for every one person in the west who leaves their Religion approximately three more take their place in the rest of the world. That's a net increase.

RichieC

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The number of Religious people may be on the decline here in the West but I doubt it will ever become "extinct" as the article says.

In any case, the rest of the world is actually showing an increase in the number of people professing a Religious belief. As it stands, for every one person in the west who leaves their Religion approximately three more take their place in the rest of the world. That's a net increase.

You must have this in your copypasta notebook, IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE WEST.

philologos

Religion is declining in the Western world.*

In other news, the sky is blue.

*While it is growing phenomenonally in other regions.

Captain Darling

Catholicism didnt help itself because it was rotten at the core for so many years.

I think the freedom of the dissemination of information and ideas on the internet has also helped with the decline of religion. This freedom is not in Middle Eastern states as far as i can make out. Then again, i'm feck all of an expert on the subject....

Seaneh

the catholic, Anglican, prysby and other 'established' christian churches are experiencing decline but all of the independent pentecostal denominations are growing faster than they ever have.

Swings and roundabouts.

partyatmygaff

RichieC wrote: »

You must have this in your copypasta notebook, IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE WEST.

Yeah, I can read thank you very much.

The reason I mentioned that there is growth elsewhere is due to the thread title being "One small step for mankind" as if this decline in the West is a major breakthrough for the human race or something as disingenuous as that.

hogflem

Christianity in all it's various guises is a cancerous polop on the anus of humanity and the sooner its cut off and burnt the better.And no,Im not an athiest.