Noob & Choice of bike Claud Butler or Fuji..or?

muad_dib77

sl3.0 tiagra .. 1500..


Claud Butler Torino 2011 @ 1400e
(http://www.leedsbicycle.com/products.php?plid=m1b8s6p5022)
Same spec as at link

or

Fuji Sl3.0 @ 1500e
(http://www.evanscycles.com/products/fuji/sl-30-2011-road-bike-ec024638)
Same spec as link


Background:
Starting out this season, plan is to train up to do a duathlon before the summer is over.
I've always been ok on a bike, so Im not daunted.

Any thoughts, recommendations you have would be greatly appreciated.

Lemag

You'll get a better equiped for similar money if you go for a Planet X, Boardman or Canyon. If you're set on Shimano components you should be looking for 105 at least for 1.5k.

Edit: Ribble would also be worth a look.

muad_dib77

That's what I thought as well, but Im tied to one dealer.
I'll give him a call and see can he do anything on those brands.

thanks.

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

That's what I thought as well, but Im tied to one dealer.
I'll give him a call and see can he do anything on those brands.

thanks.

No worries. He'd be unlikely to stock any of those brands. Are you looking to use the BTW scheme and if so is it that your employer has struck up an exclusise arrangement with this particular dealer?

If your intended purpose for the bike is duathlons have you considered buying a tri bike?

muad_dib77

Lemag wrote: »

No worries. He'd be unlikely to stock any of those brands. Are you looking to use the BTW scheme and if so is it that your employer has struck up an exclusise arrangement with this particular dealer?

If your intended purpose for the bike is duathlons have you considered buying a tri bike?

Nail on head..both times

..
Looking at tri bikes now.. I hadnt really considered them, but it does make sense.

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Nail on head..both times

..
Looking at tri bikes now.. I hadnt really considered them, but it does make sense.

I have no idea of what you're earning but say for the sake of argument that you're being taxed at 30%. With the BTW scheme the tax break is only up to €1000 so you'd effectively save €300 on a €1000 bike and likewise only €300 on a €1500 bike. If you can buy a better/equivalent bike elsewhere for less than what this dealer is offering you would it be worth your consideration to buy the bike elsewhere and save your BTW buy (which one can only participate in every 5 years) for when your employer's agreement runs out with this dealer or for when this dealer decides to offer better 'bang for buck'?

This is a much better spec than the two bikes which you've linked.

Ryath

If thats the best value the dealer has and you're prepared to put €500 to the €1000 btw you possibly would be better of not bothering with the btw and just spending a €1000 of your own money to get the bike elsewhere. The two bike you linked are not great value, heavy for carbon frames and with poor groupsets. Probably the best buys for under a grand are the canyon roadlites for €899 with Sram Apex
http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=2103
or for €999 with Shimano 105.
They really are great value good with good spec all round with none of the cost cutting usually seen on bikes in this price range. ie the wheels, brakes and finishing kit are all very good branded components.

About tri bikes I'm in the same boat as yourself just starting out doing triathlons this year and I did consider a tri bike but getting a road bike makes more sense I think to start. A road bike is more comfortable and better for getting the miles in training and if you want to go for spins with a club. Very few people use a tri bike exclusively for training and racing. Long term I will get a tri bike myself but for the moment I'll just use a set of clip ons for races.

muad_dib77

Just rang the dealer.. he's willing to look at importing other bikes - hopefully by showing him the links he'll understand that Im after a slightly better deal.

I took an older claud butler bike for a test drive and I really liked it - but I'm concerned that the tiagra bits are getting some harsh comments.

I have no experience with SRAM or the Campagnolo stuff. afaik SRAM are relatively new to the scene, but have gotten decent reviews.

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

I have no experience with SRAM or the Campagnolo stuff. afaik SRAM are relatively new to the scene, but have gotten decent reviews.

Shimano vs. Compag vs. SRAM. They each have different shifting mechanisms and each feel different but it's all about personal preferance really. If you haven't had much experience with any of them (ie you've yet to develop a personal preferance) then go with the one which seems to represent the best value.

muad_dib77

Ryath wrote: »

If thats the best value the dealer has and you're prepared to put €500 to the €1000 btw you possibly would be better of not bothering with the btw and just spending a €1000 of your own money to get the bike elsewhere. The two bike you linked are not great value, heavy for carbon frames and with poor groupsets. Probably the best buys for under a grand are the canyon roadlites for €899 with Sram Apex
http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=2103
or for €999 with Shimano 105.
They really are great value good with good spec all round with none of the cost cutting usually seen on bikes in this price range. ie the wheels, brakes and finishing kit are all very good branded components.

About tri bikes I'm in the same boat as yourself just starting out doing triathlons this year and I did consider a tri bike but getting a road bike makes more sense I think to start. A road bike is more comfortable and better for getting the miles in training and if you want to go for spins with a club. Very few people use a tri bike exclusively for training and racing. Long term I will get a tri bike myself but for the moment I'll just use a set of clip ons for races.

Im kinda torn..I've requested a price on a tri bike, now - Ill see what he comes back with.
Also thinking that a set of tri-bars on a roadbike would do the job.

is that Canyon bike is an Alu-frame, I cant find any mention of the material, also looking at the 9.0 variant..still no mention.. :-(

petethedrummer

muad_dib77 wrote: »

I took an older claud butler bike for a test drive and I really liked it - but I'm concerned that the tiagra bits are getting some harsh comments.

Tiagra is actually fine but its 9 speed (it will be 10 from next year on). If I was buying a bike for 1500 I would expect 10 speed.

Your dealer seems very uncompetitive. Claud Butler bikes don't have a great rep. A good quality Alu frame would be better than a bad quality Carbon one. And more versatile if you want to tour or commute on it.

muad_dib77

petethedrummer wrote: »

Tiagra is actually fine but its 9 speed (it will be 10 from next year on). If I was buying a bike for 1500 I would expect 10 speed.

Your dealer seems very uncompetitive. Claud Butler bikes don't have a great rep. A good quality Alu frame would be better than a bad quality Carbon one. And more versatile if you want to tour or commute on it.

You know..that is the 1st non negative feedback Ive seen on Tiagra.
The bike wont be used for commuting or touring, but I get the point all the same. Im not sure what the norms are but the CB frame comes with a 10year warranty, and it definately didnt feel soft.

I'm not really finding many reviews or bicycles online, is there a magazine I might be able to pick up somewhere?

ednwireland

www.roadbikereview.com
www.bikeradar.com

for a start (for reviews)_

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Im kinda torn..I've requested a price on a tri bike, now - Ill see what he comes back with.
Also thinking that a set of tri-bars on a roadbike would do the job.

is that Canyon bike is an Alu-frame, I cant find any mention of the material, also looking at the 9.0 variant..still no mention.. :-(

The Canyon bike linked in an Alu frame with a carbon fork. Very good components with it for the money though. If you navigate their site the cheapest carbon bike they have is the Ultimate CF which starts at 1899. I have one but with different components. Lovely bike.

If you're set on getting a carbon bike and thinking about a tri bike (although tri bars should do the job) then the best value one that I know of out there is this Planet X Stealth Pro

Lemag

petethedrummer wrote: »

Tiagra is actually fine but its 9 speed (it will be 10 from next year on). If I was buying a bike for 1500 I would expect 10 speed.

muad_dib77 wrote: »

You know..that is the 1st non negative feedback Ive seen on Tiagra.

Tiagra is fine as petethedrummer said but for 1.5k I'd be expecting better.

petethedrummer

muad_dib77 wrote: »

You know..that is the 1st non negative feedback Ive seen on Tiagra.

When you set it up correctly it works absolutely fine. Goes up and down when u ask. I can't imagine the higher groupsets being wildly better because they have hidden cables with more bends (and therefore more friction). But they do have 1 more cog on the rear though and are lighter.

Still aim for at least 105 on your budget. There was a big review of bikes in the £1000 to 2000stg range in this months cycling plus. it would point you in the right direction and if they price on some of them is a bit hot, the manufacturers will have a slightly lower specced version that may come in under you budget.

Something like this maybe
€999, 8.2Kgs, Shimano 105
http://www.roseversand.com/article/rose-pro-sl-2000-2-speed/aid:473334

€999, 8.1kgs with SRAM Apex
http://www.roseversand.com/article/rose-pro-sl-2200-compact/aid:473055

Or the Canyon as mentioned above.

blorg

Whatever you do, don't get a tri bike as your only bike. Only consider one if you already have a road bike. You can't ride with a group on a tri bike, or comfortably in hilly terrain.

Ryath

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Im kinda torn..I've requested a price on a tri bike, now - Ill see what he comes back with.
Also thinking that a set of tri-bars on a roadbike would do the job.

is that Canyon bike is an Alu-frame, I cant find any mention of the material, also looking at the 9.0 variant..still no mention.. :-(

The only carbon framed tri bike in your budget is the Planet x stealth that Lemag linked to even most aluminium ones are over your budget and as Blorg said not really recomended as your only bike.

I was suggesting the canyon as being with in your budget if you didn't use the bike to work. It may be aluminium but it lighter than a lot of carbon frames and by all accounts a lovely bike. A few in my club have them and seem very happy with them.

With out knowing what brands your dealer supplys its hard to make a recomendation Fuji bikes normally seemed well speced and priced the one you linked is definitely a bit overpriced. Hard to find prices online for ireland but this is better speced for the same price

http://duffcycles.com/about-shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=248&category_id=22

There's nothing wrong with Tiagra used a bike with it all last summer but for the money you spending I'd expect more. I bought a Planet X SL pro carbon with Sram Rival myself for €1250. If you are tied to using the btw and one dealer it may not be an option. Really looks like you may get better value not using it though and buying a road bike with you own money and if the biking bug really bites you using the btw next year to get the tri bike.

muad_dib77

blorg wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't get a tri bike as your only bike. Only consider one if you already have a road bike. You can't ride with a group on a tri bike, or comfortably in hilly terrain.

Not sure I understand that.

When riding in a group you'd be "sitting upright" most of the time anyways right? Same thing must apply when going up a steep hill (sitting uprigt, or standing)

I was never much of a user of the lower part of the handle bars I've always prefered leaning onto the brake handles.

Are there differences I havent considered?

TinyExplosions

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Not sure I understand that.

When riding in a group you'd be "sitting upright" most of the time anyways right? Same thing must apply when going up a steep hill (sitting uprigt, or standing)

I was never much of a user of the lower part of the handle bars I've always prefered leaning onto the brake handles.

Are there differences I havent considered?

A lot of club/group rides ban bikes with tri bars as they can be very dangerous in a bunch

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Not sure I understand that.

When riding in a group you'd be "sitting upright" most of the time anyways right? Same thing must apply when going up a steep hill (sitting uprigt, or standing)

I was never much of a user of the lower part of the handle bars I've always prefered leaning onto the brake handles.

Are there differences I havent considered?

When on a TT bike you're hunched over in the aero position. Control isn't great due to your hand position (which you have to be in to use the break levers) and you can't really find a comfortable grip for your hands for climbing hills.

petethedrummer

muad_dib77 wrote: »

Not sure I understand that.

They don't let pros in draft legal Triathlons use triathlon bikes. They use road bikes with mini tri bars. So noone is going to want to cycle beside you if you're on a tri bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlIvTpox6TI#t=0m30s

muad_dib77

Nice1..thanks.. Makes perfect sense..

road bike it is..

then I can fit a set of bars for when Im out on my tod..

Lemag

muad_dib77 wrote: »

then I can fit a set of bars for when Im out on my tod..

There's no reason why you can't draft and/or group cycle when you've got tri bars fitted to your drop bars.

At least one boardsie here has a Canyon Roadlite as mentioned by Ryath. Looked stunning (IMO) in the pictures which they posted. I'll see if I can dig up the post.

Lemag

Here you go and I have a recollection of yet another boardsie who posted images with tricked their's out for the winter months.

muad_dib77

Very nice..


..anybody familiar with "Forme"?

http://www.formebikes.co.uk/bikes/road/reflex.php

1700e

Really just a bit more than I was hoping to spend..

1000e from the cycle to work (turns to about 500e) plus 700e from my own wallet..

so actual cost

1200e

(I am trying to haggle another 50e off and a free tribar)

muad_dib77

I've ordered the forme reflex, full 105.
Got it at 1600e..

With the btw scheme that works out roughly at 1100e.

Should have it Tuesday next week..am really hoping this good weather lasts.

thanks for all the help and advise, without it I would probably have gone for the Claud Butler - am confident though that the Forme is a better bike, and at the end of the day that's what matters.

petethedrummer

There are not many review of Forme bikes on the web yet. Its only a new british company. Should be a solid performer.

http://www.cyclingactive.com/bikesgear/bike-news/forme-idable

Ryath

muad_dib77 wrote: »

I've ordered the forme reflex, full 105.
Got it at 1600e..

With the btw scheme that works out roughly at 1100e.

Should have it Tuesday next week..am really hoping this good weather lasts.

thanks for all the help and advise, without it I would probably have gone for the Claud Butler - am confident though that the Forme is a better bike, and at the end of the day that's what matters.

Wear well.
Certainly a step up your original choices.

muad_dib77

thanks a million, was hoping to have it for today but it wont be here for another couple of days.

cant wait.