Medical Consultants

juuge

My Mother suffers from joint pains and it is steadily becoming more acute. Her GP recommended she see a specialist in Tallaght Hospital and when she enquired regarding an appointment she was told that in order to see the consultant as a public patient it would take almost two years. To see the same man in his private clinic also in Tallaght Hospital would be in ten days, but wait for it….at a cost of €230.oo for the initial visit which according to the receptionist would take about twenty minutes.
Not all crooks wear masks, no I’m wrong Doctors wear them too.

Doom

Can't wait for the 'Day of Reckoning' to see these doctors who rape sick people of these types of costs, pay up

jett

has had ME for 20 odd years.
She was a civil servant and paid insurance through her profession for 30+ years.
The Government let her go on half pension because she could not do her job.
Having almost bankrupted her during her 6 month stay in bed.
The ilness is not recognised yet..
The insurance company hired a state consultant with no qualification in the ilness to proove she was conning them.
They made her attend physio experts who assesed her abilityies, again unquallified and they reported her un cooperative because she would not lift 35lb with one arm repeatively. This at nearly 1kE for 3 hours work.
3 trips to the psyciatrist to prove gthat it was all in her head. The last one asked her name and age, after a 300 mile round trip by myself and said she was sane at E750
They then threatened her unless she signed away her rights, which she did without my knowledge.
She said she could not cope with the stress.
So there we are Eagle Star and its consultant arsehole ( sorry arseholes are usefull) won the day having had 30 years premiums off her.
These people are coining it on other peoples misery and ilness.
Still working she would be on a minimum of E80K per annum. She gets a taxed E30K.
It aint her fault the education authourity gave it to her via a virus because she helped sick kids in the holidays and went back to work ill,and the union could not give a sh*t.
Thats bloody experts for you, hiope he rots in his own ignorance and that the 30+ pieces of silver he took were worth it.

davo10

Guys everyone is entitled to see a consultant via the public waiting list, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay, this is the same in the UK and in many other countries.

Doom, I'm not sure what your post means, what the "day of reckoning" is and how consultants are going to "pay", but the next time you want to resit the leaving cert, get results in the top 5% of students, go through 7 years of medical training then an average 10 years of post graduate study, training and exams to become a consultant, then you go right ahead, you can then take the moral high ground and do consultations for free to the masses.

ppink

davo10 wrote: »

Guys everyone is entitled to see a consultant via the public waiting list, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay, this is the same in the UK and in many other countries.

.

sure
while you are waiting on the public list for 18months for a consultant or worse.
we have a massive shortage of some consultants in ireland.

what is really bananas are the amounts of people on these lengthy waiting lists who cannot work due to their illness which could be fixed if only they could see a doc.
cant work cause too sick, then waiting for a doc, then get depression due to illness and no progress = how many on long term sick

davo10

ppink, I agree, in fact I would say the whole country agrees, the health system is a complete mess but thats a discussion for a different forum, this is about "rip-offs".

MASTER...of the bra

davo10 wrote: »

Guys everyone is entitled to see a consultant via the public waiting list, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay, this is the same in the UK and in many other countries.

Doom, I'm not sure what your post means, what the "day of reckoning" is and how consultants are going to "pay", but the next time you want to resit the leaving cert, get results in the top 5% of students, go through 7 years of medical training then an average 10 years of post graduate study, training and exams to become a consultant, then you go right ahead, you can then take the moral high ground and do consultations for free to the masses.

Snobby post much?

I assume the "day of reckoning" is when consultant fees in Ireland are on a par with the rest of europe.

Consultant radiologist in the HSE, payscale is €173,620.00 to €176,000.00.

Consultant radiologist in NHS, payscale is £74,504 - £100,446 (€85,873 to €115,757

davo10

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Snobby post much?

I assume the "day of reckoning" is when consultant fees in Ireland are on a par with the rest of europe.

Consultant radiologist in the HSE, payscale is €173,620.00 to €176,000.00.

Consultant radiologist in NHS, payscale is £74,504 - £100,446 (€85,873 to €115,757

Master I am sure consultant radiologists are paid a lot less in Bulgaria, as are people doing your job, we live in an age where people can hop on a plane and have treatment anywhere in the world, if you want your x-ray checked by a consultant in Ashingdon then move to the UK and go on the NHS waitng list there.

No snobbyness. if you want to be seen as a public patient for free then the service is available albeit with the customery waiting time just as in Ashingdon, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay a private fee. This is the reality in most countries including the UK, have you any data on the private fees charged by a private consultant radiologist in Ashingdon?

juuge

davo10 wrote: »

ppink, I agree, in fact I would say the whole country agrees, the health system is a complete mess but thats a discussion for a different forum, this is about "rip-offs".

Just curious - how much would a consultant have to charge before you would consider it a 'rip-off'?

davo10

juuge wrote: »

Just curious - how much would a consultant have to charge before you would consider it a 'rip-off'?

I suppose it depends on how badly I want to see him/her. I think it is difficult to put an appropriate price on this. On the one hand the consultant is free through the public system so assuming he/she will give you the same opinion whether you are public or private, you are actually paying a fee to skip to the front of the line so it depends on what value you put on this convenience.

As to what the consultant should charge, i think it should be borne in mind that a private consulting room involves paying rent, a receptionist, indemnity insurance for private practice which is necessary on top of indemnity for public practice (an Obstetrician pays €127,000.00 per year out of their own pocket, the HSE pays the public cost). If you take this figure alone and the Obs has one private clinic per week at €200 per consultation, the first 13 patients each day only cover the cost of the insurance based on a 48 week year (2 weeks for Christmas, 1 week holiday, 1 week on training course).

I also consider the minimum 17 years of training required to be a consultant, not many people can do this. Also I would imagine that it is difficult to attract top quality consultants to small irish Hospitals when opportunities may exist in other countries such as the UK or the US where more research/resources are available, remuneration may have had to be made attractive to secure their services.

In the end it depends on what price you put on health and what you are willing to pay to solve a health problem quickly. Incidently this "day of reckoning" crap when pay will be brought down perhaps by legislation is nonsensical, in the same way that the Government cannot dictate to a private engineering company what they charge for their products. The HSE can reduce consultant contracts but then there is a risk that the consultants will look elsewhere and posts particularly in regional hospitals will go unfilled, that means longer waiting lists and more anger.

I the last year my 6 year old son had to see an ENT consultant and my wife an Orthopeadic consultant, in both cases the private fee was €150.00 which i thought was reasonable but i do not live in Leinster.

sollar

I go private to northern ireland its alot cheaper. £80 too £100 for consultation.

MASTER...of the bra

davo10, your a consultant, yes?

davo10

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

davo10, your a consultant, yes?

Initially i was going to reply with "I wish", but even if I had the brains and the will, there is no way I could study for 20 years. I'm not a Doctor either, just a interested reader on boards. I get the feeling sometimes that there is a witch hunt against anyone who charges a fee no matter what they are and what they are charging for. Everything must now be the cheapest it can be and if it isnt then it must be a rip off. Somethings cost more then the norm and sorry if you want to skip the public waiting list and go private, then you pay, as Sollar posted, its pretty easy to travel now for medical procedures provided the patient is up to it.

juuge

I have a cousin living in Portugal for the past twenty years and he can see a fully qualified consultant in less than two weeks and his last visit cost him 80 euro. With cheap Ryanair flights it would be worth the trip over. No matter what way it's calculated in my opinion €230.oo is outrageous for a twenty minute consultation, and bear in mind the consultants private practice is only part of his working day the other part is paid for by the state i.e. you and me!.

juuge

davo10 wrote: »

..... and sorry if you want to skip the public waiting list and go private, then you pay.

So that's it then. People have died and will continue to die on waiting lists. Why should anyone in a supposedly civilized society have to wait two years to see a consultant while at the same time the same consultant is beavering away in some private hospital because that's where the dosh is and you'll be seen in two weeks rather than two years. You know a Vet wouldn't see an animal suffer like that he/she will treat an animal irrespective of whether the owner has money or nor. I have never met a Vet that wasn't caring and dedicated they love their jobs, the same cannot be said for some doctors who clearly are motivated by money and greed.

davo10

juuge wrote: »

So that's it then. People have died and will continue to die on waiting lists. Why should anyone in a supposedly civilized society have to wait two years to see a consultant while at the same time the same consultant is beavering away in some private hospital because that's where the dosh is and you'll be seen in two weeks rather than two years. You know a Vet wouldn't see an animal suffer like that he/she will treat an animal irrespective of whether the owner has money or nor. I have never met a Vet that wasn't caring and dedicated they love their jobs, the same cannot be said for some doctors who clearly are motivated by money and greed.

As far as I am aware there is no public waiting list for veternery treatment, it is all private. Again Juuge, private medical practice exists in every country and people pay to be seen faster, if you are unhappy with the fees then it is your right not to pay them.

"Beavering away"?, is that what you call treating the sick?. I cannot comment on whether consultants are greedy or how they arrive at their fees but I would imagine the cost of having a consulting room in a new high tech clinic in Dublin would be more then in an old building in Roscommon. Why not travel to Portugal for the consultation?, not being smart but it's pretty easy to do now and by all accounts any medication prescribed by the consultant would be cheaper to purchase out there. Just a point, I wonder if there are Portuguese people complaining on a chat forum there about having to pay private fees to be seen.

As for the fees "paid by the state", I would assume that is for the work they do in the Hospital treating the 95% of patients who have not been seen in their private clinics.

Also Juuge, how much of that €230 is profit?, if the costs of running a private practice are say €100,000.00 (say €50k indemnity, €20K rent in a modern private clinic, €25k for a secretary to take bookings and arrange surgeries,theatre time, €5k sundries), that would mean the first 9 consultations per week cover costs.

Shelflife

DAVO10 the problem in alot of cases in Ireland is that you will see the consultant in your local hospital (which you have already paid for ) use the hospitals equipment and then get a bill for what is in effect jumping the queue.

the consultants are extremely well paid, yet are effectively allowed to do nixers in their place of work. to some extent you cant blame them because this is part of their contract.

in effect you have the public waiting list building up because the consultants gain by having private clients, if there were no waiting lists there would be no private clients.

ppink

surely part of the "rip off" is those with money can get treated and those without cant. that is my way of seeing it anyway.

for normal consults you pay €150 ish and that is one thing but then you go up along to visiting professors and it raises to €250 for 15minutes.......yes 15minutes!
I would expect to see Michael Jackson dancing across my living room for €250 for 15mins:p

The unfortunate part of this is if you have a broken finger or a kidney stone or other run of the mill type of thing you are ok. If not you end up forced to go to these professors and pay the €250 or stay on disability and a waiting list for years. It makes no sense.

juuge

davo10 wrote: »

.... how much of that €230 is profit?, if the costs of running a private practice are say €100,000.00 (say €50k indemnity, €20K rent in a modern private clinic, €25k for a secretary to take bookings and arrange surgeries,theatre time, €5k sundries), that would mean the first 9 consultations per week cover costs.

So after 4.5 hours by your calculation the rest is profit. I believe your reasoning is precisely what has the system as it is, unjust and favoring the better off while us mere mortals have to bloody well wait.

davo10

Shelflife, if people are not seen privately, they would go on the public list awhich would then increase in size, the "nixers" you refer to are the treatment of the sick, hardly the same as doing a plumbing job at the weekend.

I would assume that when a private patient is treated in a public Hospital, the patient or their insurance company (VHI/Quinn etc) gets the bill, this I would imagine is an important way of raising revenue in Hospitals. I would also suspect that a lot of procedures are carried out in Private Hospitals.

But ppink, those who do not go private DO get treated albeit on the public waiting list. Private medical treatment exists alongside public treatment in every developed country in the World including France which by all accounts has an excellent public medical system. If I need to see a Professor, then there is something very wrong and I would expect to pay a higher fee which reflects his expertise, qualification and experience. God knows how long you have to train to become a medical Professor.

Juuge, as far as I know the percentage of private patients a consultant can see is capped. How many hours did your consultant's clinic last?, if it was 6 hours and the first 4 1/2 were to cover costs, then...

It favours the people who pay to be seen faster, that does not mean they are better off.

Shelflife

davo if they werent seeing private patients they could reduce the public list.

its not their fault, its whoever did the contracts up.

If i was paid a big wage and told that i could also use the companies resources to see private clients as well i would .

why would they exhert theselves to reduce the waiting list when the very fact that there is a waiting list brings in extra revenue for them.

imo they should not be allowed to see private clients if they are being well paid to see public clients.

the system is at fault tbh.

juuge

davo10 wrote: »

Juuge, as far as I know the percentage of private patients a consultant can see is capped. How many hours did your consultant's clinic last?, if it was 6 hours and the first 4 1/2 were to cover costs, then...

Just to clarify matters, it's not MY consultant it's my Mothers! Thankfully I don't need one, not yet anyway. The consultant in question sits privately two evenings per week in Tallaght Hospital which is his public practice location. One full day in the Charlemont clinic and one morning in the Blackrock clinic. Can you imagine if he devoted all his time to public patients the effect this would have on bringing the ridiculous two year waiting list down. Remember the state pays him €350,000.oo a year for this. No matter which way you look at it, it's a gravy train and as I said people are dying on waiting lists. That's the bottom line.

andrewrau

Private Medical Consultants uses expertise as a health care provider and specialized training to consult on medical-related legal cases.