Proposed Build - opinions?

JohnK · 21-03-2011 4:59pm #1

Hi all, putting together a new build and looking for opinions on it. I've been looking through some of the higher end build threads here and have picked some bits and pieces from a few of those so below is what I've come up with so far. I think what I'm looking for a this point is if anyone spots anything that is out of place really for a gaming machine which will also end up running a lot of virtual machines. I know i have the ram below at 8gb but I'll probably bump that up to 12 or 16gb but if theres anything else worth changing I'm all ears. I'm aiming for something that'll be quiet as well if that makes any difference.

Thanks

BigEejit · 21-03-2011 6:35pm

Do a search for P8P67 boot problems, I ran into one problem that wasnt too bad, but read a lot of horror stories about other peoples problems with that board and the deluxe one. There was new bios out yesterday so hopefully fixed some of them.... Great board if you get a good one.

I have the fractal case, love it. Came with 2 fans iirc, space for 7.

Investigate the power usage of your graphics card, if in the future you will sli another one and if after overclocking it you may find yourself tight on power.
I read a single 580gtx card can use 244 watts. And you will no doubt be overclocking that cpu so.......

Monotype · 21-03-2011 9:34pm

That PSU is overpriced. The same one on scan is only €92.
The superflower modular 850W gold is a good alternative for €122.56
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33065

I don't think that the RAM is worth it. What do you plan to do that you need 8/12/16 for? I think that you are completely exaggerating RAM needs. Games and most programs won't need more than 4. If you do really want 8GB, I would save the €30 and go for the CL9 RAM.

JohnK · 21-03-2011 10:38pm

BigEejit wrote: »

Do a search for P8P67 boot problems, I ran into one problem that wasnt too bad, but read a lot of horror stories about other peoples problems with that board and the deluxe one. There was new bios out yesterday so hopefully fixed some of them.... Great board if you get a good one.

Thats worrying, is there a similar or better board that you'd recommend?

BigEejit wrote: »

I have the fractal case, love it. Came with 2 fans iirc, space for 7.

Good to hear!

Is it as quiet as it claims?

BigEejit wrote: »

Investigate the power usage of your graphics card, if in the future you will sli another one and if after overclocking it you may find yourself tight on power.
I read a single 580gtx card can use 244 watts. And you will no doubt be overclocking that cpu so.......

Yeah I was half thinking of overclocking it given its supposedly so easy. Famous last words though...

Monotype wrote: »

That PSU is overpriced. The same one on scan is only €92.
The superflower modular 850W gold is a good alternative for €122.56
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33065

That looks a good one alright, and looking a bit more I see theres a 1000W version for just an extra €20 so I might just go for that instead. At least it opens up more possibilities for the future and should be more than enough to handle any future upgrade. http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38005&agid=1632

Monotype wrote: »

I don't think that the RAM is worth it. What do you plan to do that you need 8/12/16 for? I think that you are completely exaggerating RAM needs. Games and most programs won't need more than 4. If you do really want 8GB, I would save the €30 and go for the CL9 RAM.

Oh I'd use the ram alright, I have 4 on my current machine and its no where near enough for what I need. I run a lot of virtual machines so I need a few gb for each, especially when I need to run more than one. As it stands now I just cant do what I need a lot of the time. I see theres a 12gb kit of the CL9 for just €20 more than I had looked at initially http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=40700&agid=1193

IrishMetalhead · 21-03-2011 10:54pm

I'd highly recommend this instead of the P8P67 Pro:
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=43883&agid=1601

JohnK · 21-03-2011 11:09pm

Looks promising, does the OC Genie II actually work or is it just asking for trouble?

BigEejit · 21-03-2011 11:23pm

Its pretty quiet alright, usually can hear my graphics card though .... but that had an annoying high pitched noise, and I've got ears like a bat (both in size and hearing

)

hardwareversand does not have a lot of p67 boards in stock. Only the msi ones, and it appears they took their eye off the ball:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/msi_p67a-gd65_motherboard_review/9
(and they had one of the best socket 1156 boards, ballsed up something)

They do make quality boards though, read somewhere that most chips and caps etc on their boards are military spec

Monotype · 22-03-2011 6:24am

JohnK wrote: »

I see theres a 12gb kit of the CL9 for just €20 more than I had looked at initially http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=40700&agid=1193

That's a triple kit. Buy for that platform in pairs (or four modules).

JohnK · 22-03-2011 3:33pm

BigEejit wrote: »

Its pretty quiet alright, usually can hear my graphics card though .... but that had an annoying high pitched noise, and I've got ears like a bat (both in size and hearing )

hardwareversand does not have a lot of p67 boards in stock. Only the msi ones, and it appears they took their eye off the ball:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/msi_p67a-gd65_motherboard_review/9
(and they had one of the best socket 1156 boards, ballsed up something)

They do make quality boards though, read somewhere that most chips and caps etc on their boards are military spec

Yeah the selection on hardwareversand does seem quite limited at the moment. Is that normal for them? I was hoping to have them put it together too but if I cant get a motherboard from them then thats a non starter.

Monotype wrote: »

That's a triple kit. Buy for that platform in pairs (or four modules).

Is that a requirement or just recommended? While I cant see myself upgrading the ram any time soon I'd much prefer leaving an empty slot rather than end up taking out 1 or more modules and dumping them.

BigEejit · 22-03-2011 3:59pm

Intel ballsed up the design of their southbridge on the p67 chipset, sata ports were liable to degrade over time. They released an updated version (B3) of those chips to the motherboard companies just recently and so the updated boards are just appearing in the online shops now... This created a surge of demand as people were holding off buying until the new B3 rev P67 boards hit the shops.

I think that unless you are into extreme overclocking, a MSI board would do the job. The MSI board also has a little button you can press to automagically overclock for you.

People are getting higher overclocks on Asus boards (not by miles though, and using fairly pricey cooling) and it isn't the fastest board out of the current crop... but if you cant wait it would do the job.

BigEejit · 22-03-2011 4:13pm

As for people not suing 8GB of ram (just noticed that post now), I would say that ram requirements have only ever gone one way, up. It does not take much to get over the 4GB mark, and if run several applications on a few screens at the same time you may find that 4GB just is not enough. Throw in some virtual machines and you may find that 8Gb is not enough.

One thing I would say about ram: avoid getting ram that has those huge heatsinks on them, lots of cpu coolers overhang ram slots and in my mobo (P8P67) I have read loads of people having issues getting ram into the first slot because of the heatsink on the cpu or the ram or both.
Also, several mobo makers have listings of ram that has been tested with their boards, have a look for whatever board you select, may make all the difference.

Monotype · 22-03-2011 5:35pm

BigEejit wrote: »

As for people not suing 8GB of ram (just noticed that post now), I would say that ram requirements have only ever gone one way, up.

Good point, and it is pretty cheap at the moment, but sometimes people put too much of a budget towards it.

The triple kits are for intel's 1366 socket which uses triple channel RAM. 1155 uses dual channel.
So assuming you do want a higher amount of RAM, I would recommend 2x4GB or using 4 slots 4x4GB for 16GB. I don't see modules with more than 4GB in mainstream RAM at the moment, so if you want more than 16, you should probably look at the 1366 socket.

JohnK · 22-03-2011 11:55pm

BigEejit wrote: »

Intel ballsed up the design of their southbridge on the p67 chipset, sata ports were liable to degrade over time. They released an updated version (B3) of those chips to the motherboard companies just recently and so the updated boards are just appearing in the online shops now... This created a surge of demand as people were holding off buying until the new B3 rev P67 boards hit the shops.

I think that unless you are into extreme overclocking, a MSI board would do the job. The MSI board also has a little button you can press to automagically overclock for you.

People are getting higher overclocks on Asus boards (not by miles though, and using fairly pricey cooling) and it isn't the fastest board out of the current crop... but if you cant wait it would do the job.

Thats a bit of a balls, any idea if the expected wait time for the new boards would be measured in days, weeks or months? I'd presume the manufacturers are trying to rush them out anyway? I wouldnt be anywhere near extreme overclocking to be honest, realistically pressing that little button would be about as far as I'd get with it

BigEejit wrote: »

One thing I would say about ram: avoid getting ram that has those huge heatsinks on them, lots of cpu coolers overhang ram slots and in my mobo (P8P67) I have read loads of people having issues getting ram into the first slot because of the heatsink on the cpu or the ram or both.
Also, several mobo makers have listings of ram that has been tested with their boards, have a look for whatever board you select, may make all the difference.

Have had a bit of a look around but cant find anything saying if there'd be problems with the msi board and the corsair vengeance but I'd imagine I should be safe enough if I'm having them (hardwareversand) build it as any issues/damage would be up to them to sort out during the build. Hopefully anyway!

Monotype wrote: »

Good point, and it is pretty cheap at the moment, but sometimes people put too much of a budget towards it.

The triple kits are for intel's 1366 socket which uses triple channel RAM. 1155 uses dual channel.
So assuming you do want a higher amount of RAM, I would recommend 2x4GB or using 4 slots 4x4GB for 16GB. I don't see modules with more than 4GB in mainstream RAM at the moment, so if you want more than 16, you should probably look at the 1366 socket.

Ah, well that sorts that one then. I'd presume so I'd be ok if I got that 12gb kit (http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=40700&agid=1193&lb) and this 4gb module (http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=40699&agid=1193)? Which oddly works out cheaper than buying the 16gb kit that as far as I can see is essentially the same thing

IrishMetalhead · 23-03-2011 12:13am

i see why not tbh but there's probably a problem i over looked tho

Monotype · 23-03-2011 7:23am

So you'd be using 2x4GB and 2x2GB* for a total of 12GB with one 4GB stick to spare?

*Assuming that this is a dual kit as in the picture and not a single module.

JohnK · 23-03-2011 9:21am

Well I'm assuming its a single module since it doesnt say otherwise in the description although the image is a bit offputting. Looking at other multi-module kits they seem to specificly say its a kit and give the quantity of modules in them. The plan is to end up with 3*4gb and 1*4gb to give a total of 16gb.

JohnK · 24-03-2011 1:20pm

Anyone got suggestions on alternative ram? I sent a message to Hardwareversand about the cooling fins and they say it wont fit on the MSI board with the A70 cooler

BigEejit · 24-03-2011 11:44pm

Are you planning on overclocking your ram? (i.e. increasing the voltage going to them)

JohnK · 24-03-2011 11:49pm

Honestly, its not something I was even aware you could do so its probably safe to say I wont be trying it

sink · 25-03-2011 12:17am

Do you really need 2 4gb sticks? As you could go for 4 2gb sticks of lower latency ram and save money.

4GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1600 CL7 - €50.35
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38048&agid=1193

If you're not planning to overclock the ram (inadvisable with a sandybridge CPU), then you really don't need ram with massive heatsinks. You will only see benefit of lower latency RAM, however minor.

JohnK · 25-03-2011 12:31am

Problem with that though is I'd only end up with a total of 8gb and that's the absolute minimum I could consider. I'd hate to go spending all this money and end up with a machine that's only just barely meeting my needs.

IrishMetalhead · 25-03-2011 12:40am

could spend more on theq cpu cooler and get a corsair H50 which will defo fit with that RAM but it's like €25 more
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38538&agid=669

JohnK · 25-03-2011 10:52am

Thats an idea alright but it doesnt say it supports socket 1155 so I presume it doesnt? Although, saying that neither does the A70 so does that matter or are the LGA 1155 and the LGA 1156 interchangeable in regards to cpu fans?

sink · 25-03-2011 11:22am

JohnK wrote: »

Thats an idea alright but it doesnt say it supports socket 1155 so I presume it doesnt? Although, saying that neither does the A70 so does that matter or are the LGA 1155 and the LGA 1156 interchangeable in regards to cpu fans?

The mounts for LGA1156 are the same as LGA1155.

JohnK · 25-03-2011 3:56pm

Ah, well thats handy so.

One final thing, can anyone who's ordered from them in the past remember what vat rate they charged? And if the prices on the site reflect that vat rate or do they do like amazon uk and increase the vat rate at the final step when you select Ireland as the destination?

Monotype · 25-03-2011 7:00pm

It's 17% or whatever it is in Germany now. You can find it on wikipedia. The charge whatever is on the site at the moment. Let's hope they don't do an ebuyer on us (cut Ireland off to avoid the administration).

JohnK · 27-03-2011 3:10pm

Ok so my final build is coming in at a bit over E1,700 by the time I get it built & shipped which is a bit more than I'd ideally like considering theres no monitors, speakers in there but thats not an issue in itself since I have a monitor and the speaker bar will be fine for now.

So if I look to trim it down a bit, is there any pointless luxury in there? I'm thinking of dropping the SSD; while it'd be nice to have I'm struggling to justify it for E200 since (I think) all it means is faster boot times and faster application loads which while nice aren’t that much of an issue for me currently. And thats always something I can look at further down the line if need be. I'd also prefer if I could just go for 12gb of ram but that doesnt seem to be do-able with the corsair vengeance. Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Monotype · 27-03-2011 4:17pm

Waaaaaaaaaaaait a minute. What's that €131 2TB hard drive doing in your cart? You don't need that. You could get both a fast 1TB and slower 2TB green drive for less than that.

PSU- A little cheaper; better.
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33065

JohnK · 27-03-2011 7:53pm

Yeah, I get what you're saying alright and to be honest I was half thinking of taking that drive out as I do have a few 1tb drives lying around that I took out of a drobo a while back so those are just sitting on a shelf. Come to think of it, I actually have an unopened 2tb drive on the shelf too that I had planned to pop into the drobo but just havent got around to doing it yet.

On the PSU front, would 800w be enough to run everything? I had looked at that one you linked but at the time decided since it was only an extra 20 euro for 200w more it would be better to be on the safe side. My intention over the next 12-18 months or so would be to start adding in a few more HDs as I start to cycle some 3tb ones into the drobo to replace the current 2tb ones.

Monotype · 27-03-2011 9:42pm

Oops. Sorry. I was looking back on your original post with the 700W and forgot about all the posts in between. I even recommended the same thing before. Great minds think alike. :rolleyes:

More space across the next year? Will you use that? Mind you, I can hardly say that when I've got something like 5TB.

If you're using them for backup/videos/music, I'd go for the green drives. Games, maybe not. Actually, if you want lots of room for games and fast, maybe 2x1TB drives in RAID 0 would be better.

So what's in the shopping cart now?

JohnK · 27-03-2011 10:01pm

Well if I take out the 2TB hard drive I'm left with:

CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 - €177.76
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41224&agid=1617

CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H50 (Sockel 775/1156/1366/AM2/AM2+/AM3) - €57.44
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38538&agid=669

Motherboard: MSI P67A-GD65 (B3), Intel P67, ATX, DDR3 - €152.13
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?agid=1601&aid=43883

Case: Fractal Define R3 - €91.69
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=36379&agid=631

Case Fan Front: Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PL2 - 120mm - €11.09
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=29614&agid=42

Case Fan Side 1: Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PK2 - 140mm - €13.48
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=29623&agid=42

Case Fan Side 2: Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PK2 - 140mm - €13.48
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=29623&agid=42

PSU: Super-Flower SF1000P14XE Golden Green Modular 80plus gold - €142.13
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38005&agid=1632

RAM: 16GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 - €177.97
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=40702&agid=1193

HD: Crucial RealSSD C300 128GB Retail - €199.38
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=31475&agid=1145

ROM: LG BH10LS30 Blu-Ray - €79.50
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=30520&agid=856

Card Reader: Wintech int.Card Reader 8,9cm (3,5") USB 2.0 - €6.08
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=7435&agid=221

GPU: 1.5GB Palit GeForce 580GTX - €414.96
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=39743&agid=707

Total: €1,537.09

As for space, my on-going project is to backup my entire dvd/bluray collection which is currently approaching 1000 items so yeah I'll probably use an absolute ****load of space

Monotype · 28-03-2011 6:50pm

If it's just blueray backup, go for green drives as you won't really need highspeed access every day.

1000 items... maybe you should consider some kind of feeding device. I can only imagine the time it would take to get through that lot.

For the RAM, what about two of these?
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=44314

JohnK · 28-03-2011 7:29pm

Well its a long-long-term project but I can see myself looking for a feeding device at some stage.

That ram looks good and knocks E20 off the price.

On the HD front, what would you think of a WD Caviar Blue 250GB SATA 3 6Gb/s (€31.53) instead of the Crucial RealSSD C300 128GB Retail (€199.23) as the OS drive? Granted its not an SSD but it seems quick enough and for a price difference of about €160 thats quite a chunk of change.

Monotype · 28-03-2011 7:44pm

The 500GB version of the same drive is 18c cheaper.

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=39670

Going from what I remember of the 1TB reviews and assuming similar results, read speeds topped just under the 140MB/s down to about half that.
For an OS, I'd partition the first half or third to get the best part.

Access times and read speeds won't be anywhere near as good as the SSD, but if it's not something you'll need then leave it. There'll be plenty of newer ones released soon. The person who benefits most is someone who is using a lot of different programs and doesn't like to wait for them to open.

JohnK · 28-03-2011 8:07pm

Good spot, I'll take that one so - every cent counts

I think that about settles it then in which case I think I'll put the order in tomorrow. Unless anyone spots anything else before then...

Thanks to everyone who replied, looking forward to getting this now

JohnK · 12-04-2011 11:19am

Bloody typical. After all that the pc arrives today and they didnt install the Corsair H50 which was only reason I wanted them to assemble it in the first place!

marco_polo · 12-04-2011 12:39pm

JohnK wrote: »

Bloody typical. After all that the pc arrives today and they didnt install the Corsair H50 which was only reason I wanted them to assemble it in the first place!

Unfortunately they won't fit heavy CPU coolers as they have the potential to damage the CPU while in transit. A bit of a pain alright but on the bright side the Fractal R3 has a rear access opening for the CPU backplate so it should be very easy to fit without having to take everything apart.

JohnK · 12-04-2011 1:17pm

Yeah I suppose so but I just never feel comfortable fitting those - I'm always convinced I'll crush the cpu or something like that

Vicxas · 12-04-2011 3:54pm

Might i tempt you with this

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-063-OE&groupid=43&catid=339&subcat=1802

JohnK · 12-04-2011 4:47pm

Well I have the pc now so a bit late

Proposed Build - opinions?

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