Why can't I use my phone in Airplane mode on a plane?

ixoy

I took a BMI flight yesterday and we were told that all phones had to turned off for the entire duration of the journey, including those that supported "Airplane" modes. However, you were allowed use Blackberrys in "Flight" mode.

Why is this? What's the difference between a Blackberry in Flight mode and an Android or iPhone using flight mode? Both disable all wireless connections and capabilities. Or is it something mundane like that there's been no official tests so they don't trust the manufacturer?

Also - why can't I use say my Kindle during take-off and taxing? I've disable the wireless connections and I can't see how a Kindle can cause interference when it's just refreshing text.

Dermo

you can use airplane mode. they are wrong.

you should be allowed to use the kindle during take off/landing but the staff are not informed about every piece of electronic technology so they just say you have to have all electronics off (not on standby) for take off/landing.

Sadly this doesn't look like changing anytime soon even though the rules aren't sufficient for today's technologies

scudzilla

You shouldn't be allowed to use any electrical device during take off or landing in case there's an accident. Wouldn't be cool if ya have to evacuate quick and you're arsing about finding your book on a kindle

ixoy

scudzilla wrote: »

You shouldn't be allowed to use any electrical device during take off or landing in case there's an accident. Wouldn't be cool if ya have to evacuate quick and you're arsing about finding your book on a kindle

That logic then needs to be applied further - you shouldn't be allowed read any book or magazine, etc. for fear of you trying to find it in an emergency. No personal belongings near you because you might want to get that treasured photo in an emergency from your wallet.

Dermo wrote:

you can use airplane mode. they are wrong.

Yep, that's what I'm presuming. As you say they don't know about all pieces of electronics and it seems the regulations aren't being updated. It's a bit surprising in this case because I'd imagine there's more iPhone and Android users than BlackBerrys on average now.

Who determines these protocols? Is it up to each airline or some aviation authority?

RachaelVO

I think it's up to airlines what they allow and don't allow. Ryanair for instance now allow you to make calls during your flight, they charge you a fortune (surprise surprise) for the priviledge. Still not during take off and land though!

murphym7

I have a theory on this, I think airlines prefer a blanket type ban on electronics at take off and landing because of the amount of stupid people out there.

Imagine the scenario, normal electronics user, in flight mode with electronic device designed to be used at all times on a flight. Now lets look at the dumbass sitting across the aisle with his electronic device that he does not know much about (see stupid comment earlier in post) He turns it on because either A) he thinks his must be flight safe too because the man across from him looks similar or he turns it on anyway saying to himself 'well if the other fella has his on, I'm turning mine on too'.

Its easier and safer to have a blanket ban, as with many other things in life, we have rules designed so even the most stupid in society can understand them.

seamus

ixoy wrote: »

Who determines these protocols? Is it up to each airline or some aviation authority?

Half and half. The aviation authorities decide on general rules that must be applied, but each airline is also free to impose its own rules.

From what I can tell, the EU authority has basically told air carriers that it's up to them to decide what is and isn't allowed. If the carrier is happy that a certain type of device won't interfere with the aircraft, then they can allow it. Though that's from a 10-year-old report, so that's probably changed by now.

They would allow Blackberrys but disallow everything else so as not to piss off their business passengers. No other reason for it.

I just stick the iPhone in airplane mode and work away. If I was asked I'd tell them it's an iPod, they won't know the difference.

mk6705

The fact of the matter is that if you completely ignored their advice and used your phone in a normal mode...nothing would happen. If a phone could cause any significant harmonics at ATC frequencies I'd be shocked. The only thing that rarely happens is some pirate or indeed some legitimate radio stations causing interference. Mobile phones, wifi and certainly Bluetooth won't affect a plane's radio or electronic equipment.

afatbollix

havent turned my phone off in years.. Ill stick it into airplane mode same with them telling me to turn it off for landing I just wait till they stop walking about and put my ear phones back in...

BostonB

AFAIK they don't know if they do or don't effect anything. They can't prove it either way.

Owen

Given that the iPad has now been given FAA certification as an electronic kneeboard for use in the cockpit, it's hard to see how these bans are being justified anymore.

Blue Punto

I was asked to stop taking photographs on an EI A330 out of JFK three years ago by an air hostess which I thought was laughable.

I just put it down and when see walk away started taking pics again

Cessna_Pilot

afatbollix wrote: »

havent turned my phone off in years.. Ill stick it into airplane mode same with them telling me to turn it off for landing I just wait till they stop walking about and put my ear phones back in...

It's people like you who shouldn't be allowed on flights.

I was on a final approach recently when at about 10miles out we started to hear the "de de de de" coming through our headsets, very annoying.. Had to make an announcment no less than 4 times to ask people to ensure their phones were off.
Of course the irritating noise never stopped. Turned out it was a passenger sending and receiving texts in row 4.
So don't you try and claim you are doing nothing wrong. Rules aren't just there for the sake of it.

BostonB

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Given that the iPad has now been given FAA certification as an electronic kneeboard for use in the cockpit, it's hard to see how these bans are being justified anymore.

Its not as simple as that.

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/444911-electronic-flight-bags.html#post6291383

Tenger

Dermo wrote: »

you can use airplane mode. they are wrong.

Actually it is YOU who are wrong.
When you buy the airline ticket you are asked to agree to the terms and conditions. In this there will be a part saying you will comply with all instructions given to you by the crew (and through them the commander of the aircraft)

The rules may well be moronic and out of date but they are still the rules that YOU the passenger have agreed to adher to.

@afatbollix: are you really so petty that you refuse to keep your earplugs out for 3 minutes? What if something happened and you are busy listening to the latest warblings from The Script? How did we survive before personal music players?

@murphym7: Yes. The rules have to cover the lowest common denominator.

@bluepunto: Are you aware of the EI policy on this? They prohibit taking of photos during take off and landing. I'm not saying this is right or wrong but it is the rule that they get all their pax to sign up to.

@seamus: They wouldn't know the difference? Did it occur to you that the crew may have iphones themselves? They are not really a sign of wealth or uber coolness anymore.

Well said Cessna Pilot.

As for the iPad. Well I agree that technology is changing faster than the rules are. However I am sure the FAA have a few words on the correct and approved usage of the ipad as a cockpit nav aid.


Rules may well be stupid, pointless and moronic to the casual observer. But these rules DO HAVE a reason and a logic behind them. (Wouldn't it be nice to allow those with a broken leg to have the extra legroom of an overwing exit, Yes it would but in an evacuation the broken leg would block the exit and possibility cause deaths) However please be aware that with the amount of regulation in the aviation sector it takes more than a month or two to change/alter airline regs. And in the meantime the airline staff have to enforce the rules their company tells them to.

seamus

Tenger wrote: »

@seamus: They wouldn't know the difference? Did it occur to you that the crew may have iphones themselves? They are not really a sign of wealth or uber coolness anymore.

There's very little difference between iPhone and iPod touches. Unless the staff member is au fait with the technology, how are they going to know if I tell them that it's an iPod?
And if they are au fait with technology to that level, they won't care because they'll know there's no danger.

In any case, it's not like I have the thing hooked onto my chest. It's in my pocket, so they wouldn't know the difference.

Blue Punto

Tenger I certainly was not taking pics of her :-)

I travel around the world and never had been asked to do this before on any other airline or any other EI flight I've taken may I add.

Flight crew I know who work for EI even chuckled when I told them and put it down to new/over zealous crew member

I hear what you are saying regarding terms etc but common sense should prevail

Tenger

seamus wrote: »

There's very little difference between iPhone and iPod touches. Unless the staff member is au fait with the technology, how are they going to know if I tell them that it's an iPod?
And if they are au fait with technology to that level, they won't care because they'll know there's no danger.

So you are a qualified aeronuatical/electrical engineer and have had your personal iPhone calibrated and checked for stray transmissions by the relevant airline so that it complies with their regs?

And regardless of iphone/ipod touch.....it is still supposed to be OFF.
You ticked the box.

The rules as they stand are in my opinion unenforceble to 100%.

Many pax may not switch their phones off, they could be in the overhead bins or checked in. As seamus says if the device is in your pocket the crew cannot see and don't even know that it is there. An even if a pax does switch it off for take-off and landing whi is to know if they have enabled flight mode or not?

Personally I would prefer the manufacturers to do tests (in conjunction with a number of airlines) which will establish the ground rules for use of electronic devices on an aircraft. Airlines and passengers need continuity across the industry. For instance in the USA you can use your phone on the ground but in Europe it is supposed to be off as soon as aircraft is ready to leave the gate.

thewing

Just leave your phone on

Just remember, 4 and 6 are left and right and 2 and 8 are up and down - press 5 to deploy the undercarriage....simples ;-)

ixoy

seamus wrote: »

They would allow Blackberrys but disallow everything else so as not to piss off their business passengers. No other reason for it.

This is probably right. A lot of traffic on a route like Dublin-London would be business related. I wouldn't be surprised if BlackBerry had pushed for their product to be allowed even if there's no technical difference in its flight mode versus those of other phones.

Tenger wrote: »

Rules may well be stupid, pointless and moronic to the casual observer. But these rules DO HAVE a reason and a logic behind them.

In this case though I can't fathom the reasoning, especially the contradictory approach given towards certain phones. It also seems nobody here can (from a technical perspective). The only reasoning that makes sense is nothing to do with safety but as murphym7 says - to protect against the follies of those who just don't know what they're doing.

Tenger

ixoy wrote: »

In this case though I can't fathom the reasoning, especially the contradictory approach given towards certain phones. It also seems nobody here can (from a technical perspective).....

I would welcome extensive tests to prove that mobile phones/wireless devices/bluetooth DO NOT interfere with aircraft systems. At least then the airlines could have a baseline guide. At the moment the theory is that they must be off/flight mode as they may interfere.

Cessna Pilot has already given us a personal story of having experienced some form of radio wave interference on approach to landing.

Mint Sauce

I think its quite a simple explanation thats already been said.

Basically, with all the phones out there, iPhone, Blackberrys, Samsungs, Nokias, etc etc etc, how are staff meant to know if one or the other is in flightmode or not. A lot simpler to enforce a blanket ban.

How did people ever manage to survive a flight before personal electronics I dont know.

ixoy

irish-stew wrote: »

Basically, with all the phones out there, iPhone, Blackberrys, Samsungs, Nokias, etc etc etc, how are staff meant to know if one or the other is in flightmode or not. A lot simpler to enforce a blanket ban.

Ah but the thing is it's not a blanket ban - it's a ban for one model but not for others. That's the bit that bugged me. If they had said "all phones, including BlackBerries" I'd have respected it more.

How did people ever manage to survive a flight before personal electronics I dont know.

In principal I agree with you. However, I would like there to be a reason for things like this, one that makes sense.
Normally I'd happily read a book but this time I brought a Kindle with me and the rules for that are a bit unclear (since it doesn't consume/output any energy when displaying).

Blazer

It's ridiculous banning electronic devices like the kindle or ipad.
And it's not for 3 minutes which I could put up with...it's 15-20 minutes before landing that gets me...especially in the middle of a good book

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Ken812

They did a mythbusters episode regarding mobile phones interfering with avionics. First they had a lot of phones making calls simultaneously right beside a rigged up radio transmitter to see if it would interfere with ATC. They found it had no effect what so ever. Next they went on board a small private jet, and ran all the phones again to see if it effected the avionic side of things, and once again it made no difference at all.

Ken

clown2brown

Using mobile phones on planes has no effect on the aircraft or radio's whatsoever! This is just plain Health&Safety crap:mad: Take me back to the 60's when I could board a plane without being searched and put through a metal detector, where most commercial aircraft came with phones installed and I was able to spark up as many fags as possible:P

Tenger

Ken812 wrote: »

They did a mythbusters episode regarding mobile phones interfering with avionics....

Mythbusters is entertainment so cannot be confused with a properly conducted manufacturers testing.

And again we have Cessna Pilot tale of something interfering with the aircraft systems on approach.

Its not health and safety bull****......it taking the cautious option.

H&S bull**** is telling you you can't walk up an down the plane while holding a hot drink in case you spill it...... (P.S. I think it was the 90's when phones were installed in aircraft and in this case they WERE certified for use onboard!)

xflyer

The fact is, that like Cessna pilot, I too experienced interference on my radio from a mobile phone. But according to aviation experts like clown2brown I was imagining it.:mad:

There are a number of recorded incidents where interference did affect an aircraft. You have to remember that an airliner is highly complex piece of technology stuffed to the gills with one sort of electronic equipment or another. They are not all up on the flight deck. Some could be directly below your feet or above your head. Someone using their phone two seats away might have no effect but yours might.

Without testing every possible gadget in every aircraft, NO ONE knows whether or not there could be a problem.

Do you really have to have an aircraft crash because the autopilot went wrong due to some sort of interference?

Thought not!

Fr_2010

RachaelVO wrote: »

I think it's up to airlines what they allow and don't allow. Ryanair for instance now allow you to make calls during your flight, they charge you a fortune (surprise surprise) for the priviledge. Still not during take off and land though!

You have obviously not flown with Ryanair within the last year. The GSM system hasnt been used in months.

ixoy

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh of course I disabled these features. Now maybe it's my ignorance but if I've disabled the wireless, is it not the same effect as turning off the device itself? I've no issue with ensuring wireless transmissions are off, but I do question why I can't use devices with those features disabled.

hardCopy

Window seat, flight mode on, earphone in one ear. Smile and nod politely when the cabin crew walk by.

If they were really dangerous they'd be banned like nail clippers and shampoo bottles.

We've had inflight cell-masts and inflight wifi is now popular in the US, no sign of any planes falling out of the sky.

Jumpy

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

It's people like you who shouldn't be allowed on flights.

I was on a final approach recently when at about 10miles out we started to hear the "de de de de" coming through our headsets, very annoying.. Had to make an announcment no less than 4 times to ask people to ensure their phones were off.
Of course the irritating noise never stopped. Turned out it was a passenger sending and receiving texts in row 4.
So don't you try and claim you are doing nothing wrong. Rules aren't just there for the sake of it.

Are you sure it wasnt a phone on in your pocket?

Four rows back from the cockpit on pretty much any plane is a considerable distance to affect any audio equipment via EMI.

Dacian

hardCopy wrote: »

Window seat, flight mode on, earphone in one ear. Smile and nod politely when the cabin crew walk by.

If they were really dangerous they'd be banned like nail clippers and shampoo bottles.

We've had inflight cell-masts and inflight wifi is now popular in the US, no sign of any planes falling out of the sky.

Inflight cell use and wi-fi are allowed on aircraft that have been equipped with the correct mods. The onboard mobile cell uses it own (approved) transmitter to connect the mobiles on the plane rather than them just radiating all over to find a signal. Similar with wi-fi.

Certified and approvedby the aircraft manufacturer and the airline

And really nail clippers and shampoo bottles are not the danger in the plane. As with so many things in life the muppets who think they are above the rules are the danger.

Alter-Ego

I was on a KLM flight last week and the line was

*Dutch accent* "Please switch all mobile phones and Blackberrys to flight mode and keep them turned off until the fasten seatbelt goes out" *Dutch accent*

No discrimination between brands in the Netherlands.

hardCopy

Alter-Ego wrote: »

I was on a KLM flight last week and the line was

*Dutch accent* "Please switch all mobile phones and Blackberrys to flight mode and keep them turned off until the fasten seatbelt goes out" *Dutch accent*

No discrimination between brands in the Netherlands.

Turn it off or put it on flight mode?

Tenger

hardCopy wrote: »

Turn it off or put it on flight mode?

KLM (and EI) ask you to put them in flight mode, then turn them off for take-off. Thus when you switch them on again in the cruise they are already in flight mode.

Bigcheeze

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

It's people like you who shouldn't be allowed on flights.

I was on a final approach recently when at about 10miles out we started to hear the "de de de de" coming through our headsets, very annoying.. Had to make an announcment no less than 4 times to ask people to ensure their phones were off.
Of course the irritating noise never stopped. Turned out it was a passenger sending and receiving texts in row 4.
So don't you try and claim you are doing nothing wrong. Rules aren't just there for the sake of it.

I've witnessed cabin crew texting on final approach to Dublin. She was behind the galley curtain and thought she couldn't be seen.

Cessna_Pilot

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I've witnessed cabin crew texting on final approach to Dublin. She was behind the galley curtain and thought she couldn't be seen.

Silly cow