should you challenge a team mate ???

tyreman1

would / should you take the fight ???
just looking for yor thoghts on it...

tommyl2010

Spolier!

Mrs Lynch

As for fighting a team-mate I dont think its ethical but not everyone would agree. I remember lads fightin each other on the old UFR shows and after training togather. Some lads wer grand with it others juz chose not to fight their teammates and never lost respect for it.

Urs
x

tyreman1

sorry tommy, my bad

Tones69

At that Level, yes! Huge business at the end of the day, a lot of money and a lot on the line

wingnut4

Defintly not, I recently seen something where two girls who were in the same camp fought each other. It just defeats the purpose of a team.

It would spilt the team camp too as both people would have to train for their fight,whos going to support who etc? Its just stupid

tommyl2010

wingnut4 wrote: »

Defintly not, I recently seen something where two girls who were in the same camp fought each other. It just defeats the purpose of a team.

It would spilt the team camp too as both people would have to train for their fight,whos going to support who etc? Its just stupid

But at the end of the day its not a team sport! Its all about individual talent and in mma your job is to fight so i really dont see how ethics etc come into it when your a fighter and your number 1 goal is to be the greatest fighter in the world but you wont fight a "team mate" its a bit pointless isnt it? I think it could be more camps or coachs protecting there interests in alot of cases.

The Bored One

tommyl2010 wrote: »

But at the end of the day its not a team sport! Its all about individual talent and in mma your job is to fight so i really dont see how ethics etc come into it when your a fighter and your number 1 goal is to be the greatest fighter in the world but you wont fight a "team mate" its a bit pointless isnt it? I think it could be more camps or coachs protecting there interests in alot of cases.

It might not be the team competing, but it takes alot of people working with that fighter to get them ready for competition. If a fighter wants to progress or improve then it very much becomes a team sport.

MrStuffins

In my opinion, team-mates might want to avoid fighting each other as best they can but if it comes down to you both being No.1 and No.2 in the world, you should get in there and fight.

It's a sport. If Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal were best friends, would they choose not to play each other in the Wimbeldon final? Of course not.

Now I know MMA is different and a contact sport, but at the end of the day it shouldn't be any different in the sporting sense!

The Bored One

MrStuffins wrote: »

In my opinion, team-mates might want to avoid fighting each other as best they can but if it comes down to you both being No.1 and No.2 in the world, you should get in there and fight.

It's a sport. If Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal were best friends, would they choose not to play each other in the Wimbeldon final? Of course not.

Now I know MMA is different and a contact sport, but at the end of the day it shouldn't be any different in the sporting sense!

How good an idea do you think it is having a competitor who knows all your habits, strengths, weaknesses and is in a position to see or learn exactly what you're working on? Fighting a training partner creates a massive disadvantage in terms of training for the fight. All of this might seem irrelevant to a fan whose just interested in the fight, but the fact that these fighters cannot train to their full potential could distinctly interfere with the quality of the fight.

MrStuffins

The Bored One wrote: »

How good an idea do you think it is having a competitor who knows all your habits, strengths, weaknesses and is in a position to see or learn exactly what you're working on? Fighting a training partner creates a massive disadvantage in terms of training for the fight. All of this might seem irrelevant to a fan whose just interested in the fight, but the fact that these fighters cannot train to their full potential could distinctly interfere with the quality of the fight.

How does it put you at a disadvantage? Both fighters are doing the exact same thing, you know his habits as well as you know his!

This is SPORT we're talking about. And people compete to find out if they are the best in the world. if you get an opportunity to fight for the title of "Best on the Planet", then you should be happy to fight your friend. And your friend should be happy to give you the opportunity!

The Bored One

MrStuffins wrote: »

How does it put you at a disadvantage? Both fighters are doing the exact same thing, you know his habits as well as you know his!

This is SPORT we're talking about. And people compete to find out if they are the best in the world. if you get an opportunity to fight for the title of "Best on the Planet", then you should be happy to fight your friend. And your friend should be happy to give you the opportunity!

Its a disadvantage for both fighters in that resources that they could have taken advantage of fully in the past may no longer be available to them.
Take the Jackson camp, Greg Jackson is considered one of the best strategists in MMA. If he is drawing up game plans for both fighters, and is fully aware of the training that both fighters are doing, how can he draw up the best game plan for one fighter without trying to nullify the game plan of the other? Any benefit a fight would gain from his assistance is basically cancelled out. This same problem holds up for every other trainer there.
They cannot train one fighter 100 percent without doing a dis-service to the other.
So this means that neither fighter gets the level of training they normally get for competing, and both are going into the fight below their top ability.
How is that a good thing?

MrStuffins

The Bored One wrote: »

Its a disadvantage for both fighters in that resources that they could have taken advantage of fully in the past may no longer be available to them.
Take the Jackson camp, Greg Jackson is considered one of the best strategists in MMA. If he is drawing up game plans for both fighters, and is fully aware of the training that both fighters are doing, how can he draw up the best game plan for one fighter without trying to nullify the game plan of the other? Any benefit a fight would gain from his assistance is basically cancelled out. This same problem holds up for every other trainer there.
They cannot train one fighter 100 percent without doing a dis-service to the other.
So this means that neither fighter gets the level of training they normally get for competing, and both are going into the fight below their top ability.
How is that a good thing?

I never said it was a good thing.

But if you want to be the best in the world and you want to be the champion, you will need to find a way around this. And obviously Rashad has decided that he will go elsewhere and train in order to be the champion.

These guys dedicate their ENTIRE LIVES to the sport and becoming the best. You think they should drop all of that because a guy they happen to train with is the Champ? No way!

Professey Chin

TBH id have no issue fighting a team-mate.Ive done it in Judo & Kickboxing since a young age(just small competitions & stuff) so im used to it. Id always look at it in a way of no hard feelings before/after but during ill do whatever it takes to win. Dont see that changing really.
Its a team effort to get you ready for fights but the fight itself really comes down to you. If youre not willing to take on all comers youre never gonna make it to the top.

The Bored One

MrStuffins wrote: »

I never said it was a good thing.

But if you want to be the best in the world and you want to be the champion, you will need to find a way around this. And obviously Rashad has decided that he will go elsewhere and train in order to be the champion.

These guys dedicate their ENTIRE LIVES to the sport and becoming the best. You think they should drop all of that because a guy they happen to train with is the Champ? No way!

The problem is that by fighting a team mate its directly interfering with their ability to be the best. Take Rashad. He's just left to go train at another camp. If it turns out that the training he recieves there isn't of as a high quality as at Jacksons, how does that help him become the best?

By the way, this isn't an issue I'm religious about, its just that its a more complicated issue than saying that fighters should just fight, that ignores the entire support structure thats in place for that. There are some fighters who can switch that support structure easily than others, gaining the benefits from wherever they go. And there are other fighters who changing to a new camp would take a long adjustment period for them, and they not be able to perform to the same level with them.

In terms of good matchmaking I think it needs to be thought about very carefully before matching team-mates against each other if they want to ensure quality fights from both fighters both for that match and for the future.

The Bored One

I'd personally be comfortable enough fighting a team-mate by the way, (though it wouldn't be my first choice) its just I can understand why someone wouldn't very easily or why a club would be against it occuring.

MrStuffins

Yeah but Greg Jackson, although I very very good trainer, does not hold a monopoly over good training. there are plenty of great places he could go all over the world!

What's to stop him travelling to Brazil and training with Black House? What's to stop him giving Randy a call and training at Xtreme Couture?

If he wants to be the best, these are sacrifices he has to make........ if you could even call them sacrifices.

The Bored One

Well first off there's the fact that different people respond very differently to different instructional styles. So its entirely possible that he could go to a good camp but not experience full benefit for it.
Secondly different camps have different emphasis's, strengths, weaknesses and training methods that may not complement that fighters existing abilities. In order for him to benefit they may have to train him out of existing habits and then re-train him in their system, and that system might prove less effective for that fighter.
So yes, moving from a camp where you're well established and experiencing benefit from to one where you need to start over is a sacrifice.
And its also no guarantee that doing so will make you the best in the long run.

Its not a straight forward issue.

MrStuffins

The Bored One wrote: »

Well first off there's the fact that different people respond very differently to different instructional styles. So its entirely possible that he could go to a good camp but not experience full benefit for it.
Secondly different camps have different emphasis's, strengths, weaknesses and training methods that may not complement that fighters existing abilities. In order for him to benefit they may have to train him out of existing habits and then re-train him in their system, and that system might prove less effective for that fighter.
So yes, moving from a camp where you're well established and experiencing benefit from to one where you need to start over is a sacrifice.
And its also no guarantee that doing so will make you the best in the long run.

Its not a straight forward issue.

No it's not straight forward, but what IS straight forward is the fact that if you want to be the No.1 guy, you have to beat the No.1 guy. If that guy happens to be a friend, then fight him or re-evaluate why you're in the sport.

Also, another point to consider here is, this isn't boxing! You don't pick and choose your fights. If you work for UFC, Dana, Joe Silva etc are your bosses. They decide who you're fighting!

Rashad has said that he only trained with jackson five times in his last two fights. I doubt changing camps would be a big change for him if thats how he trained with jackson. Imo he should head on over to las vegas and train with randy.

The Bored One

MrStuffins wrote: »

No it's not straight forward, but what IS straight forward is the fact that if you want to be the No.1 guy, you have to beat the No.1 guy. If that guy happens to be a friend, then fight him or re-evaluate why you're in the sport.

Also, another point to consider here is, this isn't boxing! You don't pick and choose your fights. If you work for UFC, Dana, Joe Silva etc are your bosses. They decide who you're fighting!

Oh I know, if Rashad wants to progress any further up the ladder, there's really only one route for it left.
I just feel that as a general issue, the whole making team mates fight aspect is an issue that they shouldn't try to force unless necessary.
And yes the UFC picks the fights, but they're going to want to make entertaining profitable fights.
If making two team mates fight will result in under performance for the fighters and there's no clear progession issue, they have no reason to make the fight happen.

MrStuffins

The Bored One wrote: »

Oh I know, if Rashad wants to progress any further up the ladder, there's really only one route for it left.
I just feel that as a general issue, the whole making team mates fight aspect is an issue that they shouldn't try to force unless necessary.
And yes the UFC picks the fights, but they're going to want to make entertaining profitable fights.
If making two team mates fight will result in under performance for the fighters and there's no clear progession issue, they have no reason to make the fight happen.

Ah, but from a business stand-point, this is gold for the UFC. They even wheeled out old Rashad straight after the fight!

They'll have a massive build up, remindning us of the fall out due to this fight etc. They'll hype it like crazy!

Mellor

The Bored one, I don't really see what difference it makes to you or anyone.

A lot of the brazillians won't fight each other. That's fine, I can respect that.
Koschek and Fitch will never fight. Period. That's fine too.

Jones and Rashad know that they are both aiming for the same thing. They might not like it, but they have to fight to get there. I can respect that also.

The Bored One wrote: »

If it turns out that the training he recieves there isn't of as a high quality as at Jacksons, how does that help him become the best?

How does not taking a shot at the belt help him be the best?

The Bored One wrote: »

I just feel that as a general issue, the whole making team mates fight aspect is an issue that they shouldn't try to force unless necessary.
And yes the UFC picks the fights, but they're going to want to make entertaining profitable fights.
If making two team mates fight will result in under performance for the fighters and there's no clear progession issue, they have no reason to make the fight happen.

When have they ever force it when it wasn't the only option, ie right now.